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Kagulas

Archery

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Straight to the point, I've recently tried archery. I suggest to be nerfed a bit to make it a bit more quickly accessible and viable.

 

I made a bow and 6 arrows. Low quality, ok, I expected to get some epic failures in archery. Than I bought a 45QL Long Bow, made arrows atleast 15 QL and crafted no less than 40 arrows. I started to shot at archery target. Score 0, 1.. hm. 17 Arrows left after I've picked up those that I shoot.

 

Shot shot shot.. 

  •  Can't be too close of target with a long bow. Still, it will shot like 4 tiles distance.
    • Nerf that, remove this "too close thing". It's outrageous to not be able to be "too close" but still the bow shoots 4 tiles distance.
  • Miss miss miss
    • Ok, it's normal to miss, but so much? Nerf that, making arrows is not the best activity that you can do a whole day just to miss 50 times in a row.
    • I know, skill thing, but still, at that rate, with even 20 skill there will be so much miss and lost arrows that I can't count/
  • Arrow breaks.
    • Great, I was too far, then too close, then I've missed 25-30 times and finally.. a 15QL arrow simply breaks while a 1QL one dosen't.
    • Better totally remove this.
  • Finally... yes, one touched the targeted bear.
    • But hey, it bounces off. Good, I was too far, then too close, I missed 25-30 times in a row, a lot of arrows broke but now when I finally did it.. arrow made a mario jump.
  • Buuuut.. YES! One arrow hurted the bear "pretty hard" taking like 1-2% HP with a 45QL bow and an arrow over 13QL.
    • Higher damage (atleast on PvE)

 

Long story short.. it's a key to survivial when there is no high QL weapon or / and armor to help you. The argument.. 'higher skill will...' please, it will just reduce the rate of missing but the rate will be still there and when there is no option left, archery should be left too. It's absolutely beautiful that you can raise a Fletching skill, improving arrows, having the responsability of your doings out there in the wild, but when you reach the wild and 40 arrows manage 1-2% damage on a poor bear.. that's not close even by exepectations.

 

Thanks and a happy new year!

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Archery is the worst for new players. I'm surprised the bow string didn't break on you too. If you are a new player with a low ql bow and low ql arrows and want to kill a helpless chicken I suggest taking at least 100 arrows with you and more patients than the average individual possesses... or simply switch to another weapon. Heck even weaponless you may kill it faster. And yes it is messed up and very disappointing! I wasn't happy with the success rate and damage dealt until I got my skill to 70+archery (50+ in longbow) using a bow of 60+ql(with BT and 60+ql bowstring) and arrows over 40+ql with frost enchants. Add to that body stats over 50 etc. Then I finally actually had a half descent weapon. And still the extra activating and trading out bows for distance thing is annoying and cumbersome. And I'm still not sure I could single shot a chicken if I wanted too. There have been countless suggestions for improving archery over the years but as it stands it is a continual frustration for new and old players who want to be archers.

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Archery has always been hard focused and used for PVP from what I've gathered, which kind of sucks. But they can't make any changes to archery for pve purposes without drastically affecting the PVP side of it. I do feel the same though, I wish it would be put up to par with the rest of the weapon in the games. Or some sort of crossbow that are more focused for pve encounters would be acceptable imo.

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Gonna open this up a bit:

 

  1. You've stopped short of providing your skill level.
  2. 45ql bow isn't very high, and arrow QL does nothing for shot hit chance. It's not related so the point is a bit redundant.
  3. "nerf this/that" don't nerf a damn thing because what you're asking for is a buff. Archery significantly ramps up the more skill you get, as is intended in just about any system in the game.
  4. Removing arrow breaks... bit torn on this. As a system it's frustrating but the chance of it happening when they're not 15ql is pretty low. It's a frustration but it's not really a shocker.
  5. Arrow glance rates is... weird. But it glancing off a bear is a QL thing. Sorry to say but when you're using bad items, expect bad results. I can't recall glancing off bears much at 30ql arrows.

The "issues" you're pointing out aren't shocking nor highlighting a bad system. If you're using bad materials expect pretty bad results, that's doubly true in combat. Instead look at what you can improve and work on, rather than jumping to suggesting major changes.

Bow QL and arrow QL both factor into your damage output.

Nimbleness is very good to help you hit a lot more.

WoA works but isn't really suggested over nimble, shot speed is capped at 5 seconds and you can hit that pretty quickly.

Bow skill doesn't do anything to hit chance, it just unlocks more shot abilities that aren't worth using because they're much harder to hit shots. Archery is the skill you really want.

Bloodthirst will increase bow damage the higher the power of it. Just get a basic "seed" cast at any power, the more stuff you kill, the more the power increases.

Rarity of the bow increases the damage also.

Bow is best made of willow so the difficulty of the show decreases.

 

You'll find archery gets a lot better around 30 to 40 skill in Archery. Work on your arrows, get a better bow, ideally with casts. The archery system isn't close to perfect, but the big issues that need work exist further into the system.

It's Wurm, there's no way to pretend "higher skill means better" doesn't exist. The issues you're putting forward just also come from the QL you're working with.

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I somehow agree with you Madnath. Somehow.

 

However.. we speak about archery. One of the most classic things that human did on earth after or before (?) discovered fire. Casts and other things like this, it's just an extra-effort hard to understand. Why? Is archery. Just archery. Why would I create a super spoon to eat a soup?

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Of course, casts and the like aren't a hard requirement but it makes the journey to the system being fine to use a lot easier and faster. Once the gear is somewhat decent QL, the experience changes.

Archery needs some fine tunes, tweaks and changes. There's no question about that. But making it too good early on will inevitably make the later part of the grind either redundant or too simple to be worth any sort of grind.

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I totally agree to not make it extremely simple, but becoming helpful it would be a good start. By example, making it good for taunting a mob off a coast even if arrow breaks or glances. Basically the current way of working it's somehow like:

 

"Are you an olympic? You have the right to walk out of your bed. No? Sleep more, don't even walk."

 

Also, removing the "too close" thing. It's just a nonsense. Too far it's a logical thing which implies aiming and so on. It can become a player skill to aproximate the right distance for a successful mob pulling atleast, not neccessary high damage.

Edited by Kagulas
Mispelled word.

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21 hours ago, Kagulas said:

I totally agree to not make it extremely simple, but becoming helpful it would be a good start. By example, making it good for taunting a mob off a coast even if arrow breaks or glances. Basically the current way of working it's somehow like:

 

"Are you an olympic? You have the right to walk out of your bed. No? Sleep more, don't even walk."

 

Also, removing the "too close" thing. It's just a nonsense. Too far it's a logical thing which implies aiming and so on. It can become a player skill to aproximate the right distance for a successful mob pulling atleast, not neccessary high damage.

I do think archery is totally useless as a new player for reasons including skill requirement, bow QL, and access to arrows. I wish it could be more effective against animals earlier on. (Emphasis on PvE being more accessible)

 

Never critically thought about "too close" but you've got a point, that is a stupid concept. Velocity is velocity, and the amount of pain you feel at 1 tile from a longbow should be HIGHER than the pain you feel at 20 tiles based on air resistance slowing down the arrow the further it goes. If too close was removed, we'd have to rethink the justification of the 3 types of bows. I'm not a master archer in real life though, so I don't have any input into justifying different sizes of bows other than MAX range, not minimum range. Maybe short bows should fire FASTER, with less damage or accuracy at longer ranges? Longbows could fire slower with lowest difficulty at long range and highest damage for the longest range. 

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Perhaps a re-work of archery such that the short bow is the easiest to use at low Archery skill, then the medium, then the long.

We shouldn't get too many complaints from people who've invested time into one or more of the sub-skills, because all we'd be doing is decreasing the miss chance at lower skill.

 

I don't think minimum ranges help the game at all. I mean, you already don't want to have a bow in your hand if something is closing in on you, because it could easily get damaged.

 

I do think that maximum range should increase with the size of the bow, as should potential damage.

Edited by Sheffie
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Please..Stop and No. 
You train with shafts on a training target until you're 30 skill 45 archery. Then you'll hit basicly everything that doesn't have a thick shell. To hit thick shells war arrows work better. 
In real too, you'll first have to Learn How to shoot... Not grab a bow and go playing robin hood in the woods headshotting trolls on level 1..??
Wurm is invented by geniuses!

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Just let us paint arrows to make them easier to locate.  Some might even be willing to glow rune them if the option were available...

 

Once you play with the skill a bit, you will find that with selective targets, you need not worry about minimum range(there is none with short bow as long as the actions are queued prior to melee range) as you can keep the mob oblivious to your presence while you turn it into a porcupine(possible with every type of bow, just not with every type of creature).  Just like with everything else, you have to get out there, and trial by error on occasion. 

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On 1/3/2023 at 6:14 AM, Sheffie said:

I do think that maximum range should increase with the size of the bow, as should potential damage.

I have seen 120lb horsebows and 30lb longbows.  It's not the size that counts.  😉

 

But, for simplicity's sake, it is a workable system.  Range is a function of body strength ability to draw up to the bow's maximum draw weight.  It would be good to somehow link that (maybe draw weight, i.e. maximum range, could be tied to bow QL,=)

 

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