Bridge removal, let's make it not painful!

[Madnath 3,113]

Something to look into for the QoL changes happening in 2023 I hope!

So, bridges. They look pretty, and they're super helpful! They make crossing large bodies of water or land a breeze on horseback and we're all thankful for them to exist. It's truly wonderful we have them, and something a lot of us take for granted now I'm sure.

But, as we all know, nothing is perfect and bridges are not exempt from this. Let's dig into this a bit...

 

Land restoration, or as a few folk call it, renaturalisation is happening on a handful of the current SFI servers. They're wonderful projects that aim to take land that was previously used and revert it back to how it looked forever ago, to make an area look more appealing, to either someone looking for a new deed spot or to a new player exploring the lands for a nice spot to settle. The work folk put into these projects blows me away, with a massive attention to detail and a real effort to make it look like it did before.

Bridges however, tend to be a thorn in the side of folks who do this in a handful of areas.

 

For my example, on a server a deed disbanded quite some time ago and these bridges still remain. How do they remain? They aren't attached to a building, or cross any valley of water. They were made for "aesthetic" reasons. And frankly it looks incredibly silly to see these bridges leading nowhere. It also serves to deter people away from what is, in reality, a good spot. For some people, dropping a deed near these bridges is just an eyesore they'd rather do without.

"Well Madnath, just bash them away!"

Of course, that's the easiest answer but it's not actually all that simple. I contacted someone in alliance with a lovely 74 body strength, handed them a 90ql lead large maul and asked them to bash a tile of this 59QL bridge. After 30 seconds, the end result was dam=0.29709738.

Ouch. Good stats and good gear, even getting the bash bonus from lead. Why is this so low? Mathing this out, 90 bashes at 30 seconds long would only result in 26.73 damage overall.

Here's the same issue from the angle of a player with 98 body strength. The wonderful Nineol offered to help me get some data for this, and I accepted with glee. He's using a 75ql rare lead large maul.

This is on an abutment.

After a bash: [13:35:14] QL = 57.9743, dam=0.83030844.

Now let's look at a bracing section.

After a bash: [13:36:55] QL = 56.907, dam=0.7687136.
Floating section gave us .59 damage but no timestamp for that.

 

All in all, it paints a picture that doesn't look great long term for our Wurm landscapes. If you wonder if this is an issue, picture yourself looking out of your deed and seeing bridges across part of the landscape you're really fond of, and think of how much work it'd be to remove just that single bridge.

As a heads up before someone posts it, catapults and battering rams do not work on bridges.

 

tl;dr Bridges are absurd and really need to be less awful and painful to remove. We shouldn't be forced to drop a deed just to remove them with bash bonus. A large bridge can take multiple days between even a small group of people working to remove them. Please make it more inline with other things, such as stone walls and fences.

 

P.S devs if we can get a select bar bash for bridges too that'd be amazing. Either that or make the keybind work for bashing.

Edited December 29, 2022 by Madnath

[Tomatoes 276]

there have been many a location i turned down cause of bridges in the spot in the past. +1

 

[Blacklotus 276]

I'd love to see a bash multiplier if nobody has walked the bridge in the past month and that that multiplier last for at least 7 days once somebody has used it.

[Wendi 5]

Like this idea

[DaletheGood 1,073]

yeah, Bridges need some help on this front. Kinda sucks that the only way to get them down without spending 3-4 hrs per section bashing is to drop a deed over it.

[Karrde 342]

Bridges still collapse if a writ attached is destroyed?

[Madnath 3,113]

32 minutes ago, Karrde said:

Bridges still collapse if a writ attached is destroyed?

 

A writ? You mean a deed? I know writs were old system but anyway, no. Bridges will be destroyed if both ends are connected to a building or buildings that decay away. If it's connected to the ground, or not connected to a building at all, like in my OP, they just sit there forever until someone wastes a few days bashing them away.

Edited December 29, 2022 by Madnath

[Blacklotus 276]

They do actually decay away just very very slowly if nobody uses them. It should have a means of destroying them if they're not being used.

[Karrde 342]

6 hours ago, Madnath said:

 

A writ? You mean a deed? I know writs were old system but anyway, no. Bridges will be destroyed if both ends are connected to a building or buildings that decay away. If it's connected to the ground, or not connected to a building at all, like in my OP, they just sit there forever until someone wastes a few days bashing them away.

 

You newbies know them as houses now.

 

Offhand, seems like enabling siege machines to hit them would do the trick. Granted it leaves the question of damage rates. Perhaps the same per ql and material type as walls and fences.

 

Not to mention tweaking the decay rate of no-traffic.

Edited December 29, 2022 by Karrde

[PandyLynn 373]

+1

 

Standalone bridges should have the option to decay at a faster rate if unused or the opportunity to bash them/demolish them somehow should be available. As it stands, seeing bridges to nowhere in the middle of a reclaimed, natural area is jarring at the very least. Case in point, a player had a deed in the desert near my old place on Cele. After the deed had been gone for about six months and no sign that the player was returning, Kristof and I put the land back to desert except for one bridge. I wasn't going to sit there for a month and bash the object. There really ought to be some kind of middle ground.

[DaletheGood 1,073]

Yeah, I don't want unused bridges that aren't part of the highway to be as easy to bash as say a fence, the disparity in the amount of materials used is too great. But, there should be a sliding scale of damage dealt by decay and bashing the longer a bridge is not used. Right now if a bridge is used it stops decay ticks for a week I believe. That's fine. But if a bridge isn't used in say 30 days then maybe the decay ticks and damage dealt with a maul could be doubled, after 90 days of no use those could be doubled again, 180 days of no use sees another doubling, etc. A single person using the bridge should stop the increased decay and damage for a week, but then it reverts back to the previously increased level. At some point of usage, say 5 people riding over it within a week or a month, then those increased rates of damage revert back to the original, hard to bash, levels and the timer starts again. Just a thought.

[kordethbludscythe 762]

i also think that the original builder should also be able to destroy the bridge just like a house they built as long as no one else holds a claim IE highway or on someones deed or perimeter 

[Muse 2,231]

Always remember that deed mayors have a bash bonus on bridges.

 

I remember a friend and I having to bash a single width bridge when I was trying to widen a single path into a double width highway.  It was taking so long that in the end my friend who originally built the bridge re-deeded over it and so he was then able to bash it relatively quickly, and the highway could then progress.   

 

It would have been easier and cheaper if my friend could have destroyed the bridge like a house as @kordethbludscythesays - or even remotely transfer ownership to any person who needs to change or remove it (me).

 

 

Edited January 1, 2023 by Muse

[Madnath 3,113]

5 hours ago, Muse said:

Always remember that deed mayors have a bash bonus on bridges.

 

I remember a friend and I having to bash a single width bridge when I was trying to widen a single path into a double width highway.  It was taking so long that in the end my friend who originally built the bridge re-deeded over it and so he was then able to bash it relatively quickly, and the highway could then progress.   

 

It would have been easier and cheaper if my friend could have destroyed the bridge like a house as @kordethbludscythesays - or even remotely transfer ownership to any person who needs to change or remove it (me).

 

Of course, dropping a deed is an option, but it shouldn't be a requirement. Nobody should have to pay in just to be able to remove redundant bridges at an acceptable speed.

[Jaz 2,666]

Please make a reasonable way to destroy stray bridges. Catapulting not working, bashing takes ages, only current sane way is dropping a deed over - which is also painful in deep waters...

Make them easy to bash if unused for a while at least. I know of bridges that are definitely unused and standing for real life years.

[KaRodes 0]

It was very informative for me to know about it.

[wipeout 1,355]

Last bridge i destroyed was a fun DAY of catapulting it then giving up and bringing over 12 toons to bash away for another 6+ hours for the remaining pieces total time spend for that bridge was around 16 hours which was fun(not)

Honestly we should just have a simple system of "Is bridge used in last 30 days?" AND "Is bridge connected to building/deed" AND "is bridge part or near a highway" with near being 20 tiles, if these are not true then damage for bashing should be increased to a reasonable amount where bashing a bridge tile is a few minutes and not a few hours with 1 toon and where say a 10 tile long bridge is like 2-3 hours of bashing.
Add to that creator bonus so that the creator can bash it really quickly if the above conditions are met and bridge removal for old unnecessary bridges will become a lot better suited for wurm