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Darklords

Defiance PMKS

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Just now, Pnutp said:

YES, they will/can have their own kingdom... everything you are saying is the EXACT reason we need PMKs

For Mol Rehan.. How? We're on the same starter island nobody's leaving.. Nothing changes for us. Shinso gonna still attack new players and we're still gonna keep him and his twin on the deed. That Simple.. What does the PMK accomplish? That he can go make one and siege us? Or for your case just so you could keep all your stuff you currently have and be able to grief joemog off starter right?

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1 minute ago, Ism said:

For Mol Rehan.. How? We're on the same starter island nobody's leaving.. Nothing changes for us. Shinso gonna still attack new players and we're still gonna keep him and his twin on the deed. That Simple.. What does the PMK accomplish? That he can go make one and siege us? Or for your case just so you could keep all your stuff you currently have and be able to grief joemog off starter right?

because either them or you can create a pmk and actually fight each other with purpose... PvP!

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10 minutes ago, Ism said:

But will it stop these alliances from being against eachother? 

It's us people that are the issue. Not the system.

But you cant resolve it. Right now you are in kingdom where are 2 alliance and only one have crown and benefits from it.

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So In the end we get back to the real problem King powers/titles.

Everybody wants to be the king yay 

Edited by Ism

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Just now, Ism said:

So In the end we get back to the real problem King powers/titles.

Not only. There is problem with this that you are in same kingdom, so no one can free walk on starter island becosue will be attacked by one from two group. Eny diffrience betwen PMK and now? That one group will have upper hand in combat becouse of benefits from title and crown, with PMK you are equal in that matter then you can only win in skills and abilites. About staying at starter island, its simple you can stay or you can move its depends on you. If Shinso/Schmetter want stay then your group can move lol. Like go to Foxheven(or something like that) deed or deed Ebber for your own PMK. JK have same problem, if we have PMK then JK dont need fight for crown with Jomog, who said if PMK will be implement then JK go hunt Jomog? Maybe we go after others group?

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9 minutes ago, Ism said:

So In the end we get back to the real problem King powers/titles.

Everybody wants to be the king yay 

Its not that everybody be king becouse for titles and crown to work you need have 2% influece, it means you need more than 25 towers its lot for small groups.

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16 minutes ago, Ism said:

So In the end we get back to the real problem King powers/titles.

Everybody wants to be the king yay 

and you realy think that make PMK is easy for small groups? 1g for independent paper, 25 people for make kingdom and 2% influence for titles and crown working. On Chaos you can make one person PMK becosue its buisnes, you get back that 1g and silver from alts with profit from selling flags, banners, tall banners and wagons on Freedom. You cant do that on Defiance, so that 1g and silver in alts are good investment only when you have more than 10 people(no alts) in PMK.

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7 hours ago, Gavaldor said:

I just heared that PMKs will probably be forced enemies (i.e. each PMK is considered an enemy to each other) so you literally can't play anymore with people who happen to have their deed made on starter and can't join your PMK? Or if the tower limit is enforced, can't play with people living further away than the tower limit allows? Forced further fracturing of the community basically? Is this enforced by the "no simultanous logins to enemy kingdom" rule? So can't even login with an alt to chat with friends living on starter?

 

I understand the desire to prevent people doing a one-PMK-per-person thing where everyone gets the bonus, but forcing people to move off-starter and either abandoning their deeds or abandoning their friends, in the particular scenario of Defiance, seems to be a bad move too. It feels like this needs a lot more thought put into it, especially how the community interactions work, not just the pvp interactions.

Also, keeping starter kingdoms, wouldn't this just effect to granting one faction a "free PMK" by being the faction who owns the starter kingdom?

I feel this whole discussion thread seems to be a bad idea, asking people about whether they are ok with PMKs without them being aware of all the details that would entail.


 

1. I don’t think the tower limit/wipe will be a thing based on Darklords responses and everyone’s overall sentiment regarding a tower wipe.

 

2. Why would anyone be forced to move off starter? Template kingdoms aren’t going away.  Starter island is getting a range increase where other kingdoms can’t build closer to it.   PMKs cost 1G and can be created by anyone.  I believe on Chaos champs we’re removed cause one group would make multiple PMKs for the champion bonuses.  Now it’s kind of pointless with no more champs.  

 

3.  Discussion isn’t bad at all.  I’m seeing a lot of fear and it stems from ignorance or simply not knowing.  Discussion helps clear up misunderstandings about the system like people “being forced” to do something.  PMKs have been done twice now on Chaos/Epic but in this case, it would essentially be with a portal system and no home servers.  If you enjoy your current group/faction then stay in your template kingdom.  

Edited by DADLER
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From my view looking at the timing of this issue and when it came up after a couple of individuals were banned. The dominating group losing their "TOP" guy and then getting things their way. This is a campaign run by one group of individuals to benefit themselves and no one else. If we are going to make these changes why not be transparent on to the actual reasons the individuals were banned in the first place which obviously sparked this current need to address PMK's. I myself do play on PvP from time to time and I would rather the kingdoms stay as is. If you cant get along maybe it's time for you to change your faction so you can kill whoever it is you want to kill. No ones forcing you to stay in JK. It's hard as it is that not many wurm players even play on the PvP servers let alone look at the fourms to give their feedback. Saying that everyone or the majority or players want it is just putting words in peoples mouths that don't speak here.

 

Obviously when it comes to this decision one group or another is going to be upset Anti-PMK or the Pro-PMK groups. Why not focus on the NFI and SFI merge instead and allow those that want to have a PMK go to Chaos and duke it out over there rather then change the dynamics on Defiance.

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7 hours ago, BattleWall said:

From my view looking at the timing of this issue and when it came up after a couple of individuals were banned. The dominating group losing their "TOP" guy and then getting things their way. This is a campaign run by one group of individuals to benefit themselves and no one else. If we are going to make these changes why not be transparent on to the actual reasons the individuals were banned in the first place which obviously sparked this current need to address PMK's. I myself do play on PvP from time to time and I would rather the kingdoms stay as is. If you cant get along maybe it's time for you to change your faction so you can kill whoever it is you want to kill. No ones forcing you to stay in JK. It's hard as it is that not many wurm players even play on the PvP servers let alone look at the fourms to give their feedback. Saying that everyone or the majority or players want it is just putting words in peoples mouths that don't speak here.

 

Obviously when it comes to this decision one group or another is going to be upset Anti-PMK or the Pro-PMK groups. Why not focus on the NFI and SFI merge instead and allow those that want to have a PMK go to Chaos and duke it out over there rather then change the dynamics on Defiance.

I'm not sure how you think this will solve any problems... If we were to swap to BL as a group you wouldn't have a kingdom or a king within 2 months. BL mechanics allow for the inter kingdom fighting and raids, unlike WL, so this is neither proactive or good for the game. Why make 6 groups (possibly be more when PMKs attract older returning players, who don't now fit in an alliance) fight for their own kingdom? you wouldn't be forced to leave the starter, nor the faction you are currently in. So unless you wanted it to, this would have no detrimental changes to your group.

 

It would seem the only people against PMKs are them that want a freedom PvE life on a PvP server!!

Edited by Pnutp

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If you all come to bl instead of complaining about being outplayed by a guy on starter you can have the devs  fix the somrigare outdated system on how kings are chosen and removed. 🙄

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1 hour ago, feldoh said:

If you all come to bl instead of complaining about being outplayed by a guy on starter you can have the devs  fix the somrigare outdated system on how kings are chosen and removed. 🙄

I feel we are side tracking the point in which we are debating, There are a lot of outdated mechanics... The discussion is how we increase the longevity of the server. We were not out played by anyone other than game mechanics, it has now been put in a position you need to PvP for it on a PvP server. We have no advantage over anyone else. 

You have your kingdom in which you managed to lock it down and gain the crown for yourself which is why you wouldn't need a PMK and that's great, but what's your take on PMKs as a whole. If King wasn't important to your group why did you have to lock it down?

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8 minutes ago, Pnutp said:

I feel we are side tracking the point in which we are debating, There are a lot of outdated mechanics... The discussion is how we increase the longevity of the server. We were not out played by anyone other than game mechanics, it has now been put in a position you need to PvP for it on a PvP server. We have no advantage over anyone else. 

You have your kingdom in which you managed to lock it down and gain the crown for yourself which is why you wouldn't need a PMK and that's great, but what's your take on PMKs as a whole. If King wasn't important to your group why did you have to lock it down?

You 100% got the rules changed to your advantage. And this thread is just another tempt for that as well. Context is important.

 

We were told not not to touch the coast at all and never heard back about the changes while you guys deeded and set yourself up nicely.

Edited by Joemog

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Simple as king =titles =progression?  I still only see select jk crying about pmks

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@PnutpLike i said in a post earlier. Pmks should have been in the game 3 months after launch. The reason its brought up now however is disrespectful to every other player besides your group having struggled for roughly 18 minutes before having the gms move the lady for you. The mechanics overall are horrible since any kingdoms with more then 2 groups can make sure there will never be a king on the throne for more then 6 weeks roughly. So adding pmks now is just an easy fix for your group and then you double down on this meme asking them to wipe the towers for you. SO you wouldent have to bash to expand your pmk. Im not sure if i should be impressed by your boldness or disgusted. But arguing on the forums i doubt we will get anywhere, if any players+dev/gms would like to join in on discord some night im sure we could have a much better discussion on the topic.

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2 minutes ago, feldoh said:

@PnutpLike i said in a post earlier. Pmks should have been in the game 3 months after launch. The reason its brought up now however is disrespectful to every other player besides your group having struggled for roughly 18 minutes before having the gms move the lady for you. The mechanics overall are horrible since any kingdoms with more then 2 groups can make sure there will never be a king on the throne for more then 6 weeks roughly. So adding pmks now is just an easy fix for your group and then you double down on this meme asking them to wipe the towers for you. SO you wouldent have to bash to expand your pmk. Im not sure if i should be impressed by your boldness or disgusted. But arguing on the forums i doubt we will get anywhere, if any players+dev/gms would like to join in on discord some night im sure we could have a much better discussion on the topic.

I agree and this is a sensible response :) for us it isn't about the struggle, you know yourself we are more than capable and willing of getting what we want through PvP and we encourage others to do the same and welcome the challenge. What we cant beat are the game mechanics that dont allow us to PvP for them. A tower wipe is not an issue... being able to bash the towers would be! again, game mechanics, not a outplayed manoeuvre of PvP. I am glad that you are in agreement PMKs are needed as this is what the topic of discussion is about.

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@PnutpBut the only difference on the whitelight kingdoms and hots right now is that we can treb buildings. So if that is the pvp mechanic you feel you lack to make it fair that seems like an easy fix and then we can put the npcs back.

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1 hour ago, feldoh said:

@PnutpBut the only difference on the whitelight kingdoms and hots right now is that we can treb buildings. So if that is the pvp mechanic you feel you lack to make it fair that seems like an easy fix and then we can put the npcs back.


War declaration may be the bandaid “easy fix” but is no war declaration.  Can’t forget lock picking, stealing, bashing, picking up, dropping items, etc without going unlawful.  If they allow all of those on same kingdom and non-BL deeds, would that make the other kingdoms that much different than HOTS?

Edited by DADLER

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@dadler do they have to be diffrent from hots? You want balanced pvp servers right? Why not let every kingdom have access to everything? Same rules, same spells, same options and so on...

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12 minutes ago, feldoh said:

@dadler do they have to be diffrent from hots? You want balanced pvp servers right? Why not let every kingdom have access to everything? Same rules, same spells, same options and so on...


Template kingdoms have to be different yes, PMKs no.  I doubt wurm staff would unravel over a decade and a half of code to “let every kingdom access everything”.  That’s why they added additional layers like PMKs and war declaration for these exact situations because this won’t be the first or last time this happens on Defiance.  

Edited by DADLER

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if template kingdoms has to be different why is there 2 identical white light kingdoms?

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9 minutes ago, feldoh said:

if template kingdoms has to be different why is there 2 identical white light kingdoms?

Game was founded in 2006.  I think MR was added 2007/2008 so you gotta ask Rolf on that one buddy.  Getting philosophical here wont address the issue at hand.

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There are so many game mechanics that are being overlooked by multiple factions within 1 kingdom, Imagine doing HOTA to find your apposing kingdom faction are camping the last camp... you cap 3 they cap the last one, get all the rewards. Imagine pumping missions and using karma to guiding and your apposing faction getting rewards... imagine fighting for something in which you cast a heal and you also heal them... we could go on.... ultimately PMKs have no negative effect to anyone that doesn't want to found one.

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20 minutes ago, Pnutp said:

There are so many game mechanics that are being overlooked by multiple factions within 1 kingdom, Imagine doing HOTA to find your apposing kingdom faction are camping the last camp... you cap 3 they cap the last one, get all the rewards. Imagine pumping missions and using karma to guiding and your apposing faction getting rewards... imagine fighting for something in which you cast a heal and you also heal them... we could go on.... ultimately PMKs have no negative effect to anyone that doesn't want to found one.


Excellent points.  Also If there’s a faction within my kingdom thats been doing missions, and I don’t like it.  I could guide Fo/Lib/Mag away from completing the scenario thus depriving folks of the scenario rewards.  

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5 hours ago, Pnutp said:

Imagine pumping missions and using karma to guiding and your apposing faction getting rewards

 

PMKs wont fix this problem just fyi

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