Sign in to follow this  
Darklords

Cartography Testing - Feedback Wanted!

Recommended Posts

3 hours ago, Arno said:

Are we allowed to have some client-side fun by editing the maps? The map image files are easily accessible.

  Hide contents

-snip-

 

Was worried about that too. Seems a little easy to add almost anything.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

One thing to keep in mind is that Cartography will be an official in-game skill with results that are an official result of game coding.

 

The Community Maps generally aren't official, and are provided by players for players. Very useful, yes, but not produced officially.

 

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

.

Edited by TimHaus
read former message and see someone used spyglass, so there should be a way

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Doing something wrong? : [11:13:13] The 'x mark' clay stamp will not fit in the cartography table. 

Should it go there or what use is with that stamp slot? Journey step fill a cartography step is made without filling stamp slot.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, monsterix said:

Doing something wrong? : [11:13:13] The 'x mark' clay stamp will not fit in the cartography table. 

Should it go there or what use is with that stamp slot? Journey step fill a cartography step is made without filling stamp slot.

You should fire the clay stamp into a pottery stamp using a campfire / forge / kiln.

The journal does mention using a fired stamps on a map but there is no explicit step telling you to fire them.

Edited by Arno

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, Blacklotus said:

Was worried about that too. Seems a little easy to add almost anything.

Since it's on your client only it may not be much of a problem.

 

It could be a nice feature to have custom images and share them with your friends so they can also see them on your deed.
A more advanced possibility would be automatically update these images using a simple tool.

You could make them display information about rites, rifts, harvests, etc or even make it a compact community news letter.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Fantastic 🙂

Suggestion:  depending on map quality and users' skill as well as compass quality, perhaps a user while having it open could select an action to determine one's own location on a map (if local). Perhaps a dot guessing near general location, higher skills yield better accuracy and eventually even becoming a direction indicator in place of a dot.

 

Perhaps, this would be a use that would encourage more people to level the skill for practical use if they can't justify it for any other way.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

After combining maps then erasing stamps, new stamps do not save.

Can the stamp box be activated to make all stamps available in the editor?

I'd like smaller stamp sizes and ability to zoom out more in map viewer. 

A warning that maps are consumed in combining might be friendly.

Allow eraser to remove individual stamps. Maybe add them to stamp selection at a desk.

 

Edited by bigtree

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

21 hours ago, Explora said:

I used an 'x mark' time stamp on a painted map to complete the "Imprint a Time or Annotation stamp" goal but I can't see what effect it had on the map.

 

Opening the stamped map and hovering that stamp will show you either the set time or a countdown timer (depending on what you had the stamp set as).

 

21 hours ago, Explora said:

I haven't been able to figure out how map linking works. It asks to link to a location on one of the live server maps but since there is not a map of Druska in game I don't see a way to test this.

 

You can link them to any map, it doesn't have to be the "correct" one. Once linked and stamped to a map, you'll get a right click option on the map (while in an atlas) to show on world map, which opens the world map to the correct server and shows the stamp icon where the map is. You can also click the icon on the world map to automatically open the linked map in your atlas.

 

20 hours ago, Karrde said:

I hope this works for other writing tasks such as copying recipes. That would be a huge QoL upgrade.

 

Yes, it does.

 

3 hours ago, bigtree said:

After combining maps then erasing stamps, new stamps do not save.

Can the stamp box be activated to make all stamps available in the editor?

I'd like smaller stamp sizes and ability to zoom out more in map viewer. 

A warning that maps are consumed in combining might be friendly.

Allow eraser to remove individual stamps. Maybe add them to stamp selection at a desk.

 

1. Thanks, will check. 2. Yes - you can activate the map and use it on the table or stamp box to stamp with multiple, or activate the stamp box and use it on a map for the same effect. 3. Scroll wheel while stamping to change their size (explained in the "?" button in that window) 4. Thanks, I thought I had added that previously, but apparently not. 5. Maybe...

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This is a great addition and I am working my way through the journal.

 

I was surprised I didn't get a message to tell me "you can't move while doing this etc" when I was finding survey and starter location while walking. It doesn't seem correct while using a dioptra and walking.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 11/26/2022 at 8:51 PM, Budda said:

This is kind of intended since the contour intervals are determined by the map location (and quality of the map). I get the issue though, so I'll have another look at it - it might be something like over a certain skill or survey quality you start recording global contour intervals instead of local ones.

 

That would be useful for working out the shape of the terrain.

 

If you get a map good enough to have global contour intervals, can there be a way to tell your current height above sea level (provided you're standing somewhere the map covers)? That sort of info is particularly useful when planning larger constructions like tunnels and roads, and also fun to have for people who like numbers and records.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Overall, going about making maps, combining, and customizing them feels great. I can see a lot of people having fun with this mapping out their local areas, as well as some aiming to map out greater portions of servers and selling the copied maps to others. Just a few things I noticed and thoughts I had as I tried things out.

 

The ability to hang maps on walls looks great. It'd be even better if we could make simple decorative frames for maps using shafts. Having a plain wooden border would help with them looking a bit out of place on some wall types.

Another cool item would be a "Map Sign" to place maps inside of, and have them display in the world like they do on walls, the ground, and the cartography table. These would be great to have on a deed for any visitors to quickly orient themselves, as well as alongside highways. They should be protected from decay on deed and highway, with normal sign decay speeds elsewhere. Quick example here: https://i.imgur.com/tcYQxRO.png 

 

I did notice that placing a map on the edge of a wall corner, then walking behind it causes it to be invisible. Not a huge problem, though.

 

The cartography table is really quite cool, nice touch being able to see the ink brush and pot on the model alongside the map when they're inside. Is it possible to have some stamps appear on the model as well, or have more space for stamps inside?

Any chance the table could be dyed, too?

A bit off topic but a similar table for archaeology would be awesome. Could store a chisel, metal brush, and journal along with a small container for fragments.

 

Think it was already mentioned, but it would be great if the indicator from "Find survey location" lasted just a bit longer. Seems to stay for 30 seconds, perhaps 45 would be a reasonable increase. Or have the indicator lifetime increase with skill?

Edited by Synjor
  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, azuleslight said:

is it like my suggestion for cartography? lol

Try it and find out! 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Cartography, I really like some of the features, and there were some pain points for me.

 

It would be nice if a spot to survey from would stay lit longer than 1 minute, it just feels rough trying to find a spot, following to get there and have to check exact spot again. will these survey spots avoid appearing in areas that the player cannot get to like enclosed fence spaces with locked gates the player doesn't have access too?

 

Map making at the cartography table wasn't really a nice experience. I understand why a painted map might need to be at the same ql as or higher than the survey sure, but why do copies need to be higher ql for blank maps? They cant be copied so it feels punishing to make copies, it also feels punishing to combined painted maps just to have them poof without warning. Might be nicer to give us an option to use another blank map to add painted maps together without consuming the originals. It's also really hard to match up maps when they don't have any kind of transparency and resizing maps has no apparent way to return it to original size without stopping and restarting. I really didn't mess with stamps but it looks interesting. I may try those out later on.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The order of the locations, or the wording, is out of sequence.

 

Starting the survey:

 

Quote

06:20:57] You start noting down the location and planning the best places to gather more data.
[06:20:59] You look around for the high and low points of the land nearby and note them down.
[06:21:03] You take a quick note on the differing terrain in the area and where you'll need to record more information.
[06:21:07] You finish noting the center of the area and plan out the best places to record more information.
[06:21:07] You should now continue recording by using a dioptra on the survey from the highest point of land nearby which is to the right of you.

 

But rather than directing you to the highest point, you are directed to the lowest point first, and then the highest

 

Quote

[06:22:33] You start to note what looks like the lowest point of land in the area.
[06:22:39] You feel confident that you're in the best location to get the data required.
[06:22:43] You finish noting the lowest point of land and decide that the highest point is what you'll need to record next.
[06:22:43] After checking your notes, you figure the best place to record from next is in front of you.

[06:24:30] You begin noting down what looks like the highest point nearby and more areas you can see from here.
[06:24:36] You feel confident that you're in the best location to get the data required.
[06:24:40] You finish recording the highest point of the area and decide on the best triangulation point.
[06:24:40] After checking your notes, you figure the best place to record from next is to the right of you.
 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 11/27/2022 at 1:47 AM, elentari said:

Don't get me wrong. I love the idea of cartography in game and have been an ardent supporter for years and I want this to happen. I just want to understand the gameplay / game design justification for such an implementation if possible. I know it's too late to change any development decisions, but I want to understand what it bring on top of what already is. Kinda like incremental validity in science.

 

On 11/26/2022 at 8:11 PM, Darklords said:

My view personally is not everything needs a direct benefit somehow and sometimes things just for the fun of it are nice also. This skill was more inspired by allowing people to be creative and display that in the world where they can be enjoyed. At the end of the day its hard to make something everyone will enjoy, extra so in a game like Wurm where we just have so many different possible play styles and skills people like/don't like. We hope though once its live people will find plenty of fun and creative things to do with them over time, and will be open to suggestions on things we could add to increase the possibilities in future updates.

 

 

You didn't quite understand each other. The conversation, as I understand it, was not about profit, but about the purpose of this action. At this point, the purpose of cartography is really not clear. And aimless action is of no interest to anyone.

 

But cartography and treasure hunting are two sides of the same coin.

 

Instead of two map put in the casket a only map with hint indicating the search area. As it is now. Upon arrival in the specified area begins cartography. After the map is finished by cartography look at it through a "magnifying glass" (an action that turns a normal map into a treasure map). We will get the same map with X that exists in a caskets now.

As the skill increases, the complexity of the map and the quality of the treasure increase too.

 

From a programming standpoint, this is easy to do. Only function "look through a magnifying glass" is added. The function compares the cartography skill and, depending on the skill, starts the process of generating treasure maps with a certain quality that already exists.

 

We get both, the purpose of cartography and diversity in treasure hunting. And it doesn't affect other goals in any way. Such as

On 11/27/2022 at 5:58 AM, Budda said:

quick list of things it adds beyond the community maps: Map the same area over time, create copies to give/trade to other players, display them in-world, combine multiple maps to show a larger area, embed information about various things via stamps, directly link to locations on the world map, and link maps to other maps.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks for all the feedback so far - server and client have been updated with a few changes:

  • Direction indicators for surveying will stay up for a maximum of 5 minutes, and start their usual 30 second fade out when you're within 10 tiles of the indicated location.
  • Map images will confirm they are the correct file the server is sending, if not they'll be redownloaded (new maps after this change only).
  • Added an option to surveys to toggle contours between 3 options, Local, Off, & Global. Global is only available on surveys over 50ql.
  • Added a confirm/warning message to the map combining window.
  • Added opacity to the currently dragged map in the combining window.
  • Combiner window will close itself if the action is cancelled.
  • Updated examine messages for stamps and ink pots.
  • Will now check more than the first found ink pot for dye/ink when needed, if the first is empty.
  • Lowered the action time for the stamp eraser.
  • Fixed font sizes for treasure maps with text.
  • Fixed survey messages being the wrong order :)
  • Like 5

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Aye at this point having a pen auto-refill from a crafted ink well is good enough for me. Rest of the exploration updates is icing on my cake. 😄

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Tried but failed to do anything. I got into that little starting area then had to leave rl stuff.

I came back and pc only froze up and game crashed so I quit.

Sorry

Edited by jasminth

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The added opacity really helps with combining maps. Having wildly different contour lines on maps being combined is still jarring.

 

Would be nice if the map image, rather than just the blank map, was displayed when trying hang on the wall. I find it far to easy to rotate them, at least with a magic mouse as the default macOS settings are far too sensitive to control placement rotation in the game while being just right for scrolling elsewhere... Would be nice to add a move rclick menu with rotation and move up/down, left/right options. A rotate for north up would be a nice start.

 

Would also be nice if stamps were visible on a map when hung on the wall.

Edited by Wulfmaer
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ok so, finally managed to get time to log in on test server and give it a glimpse.

First of all, wow, it's amazing, such a unique and immersive feature. well done, indeed. Even though i highly doubt i will be using it any time soon(one day maybe).

My only complain so far is that it could be maybe a bit more clear in journal steps on how to use it, journal was a great help but still had my head scratching for a moment on what to have activated and what to use on what.

Also, i didn't play with it long, but is unclear to me how to se progress of surveying, in like, when taking additional surveys how it improves the report and final result, maybe add some text indicator on examing survey report in percentages or something like that

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I wonder how a map might benefit from being rare. I'm sure this has come up but I didn't see it in my testing so I got thinking. 

 

Some ideas, even though you didn't ask me. :P

Rare+ maps could...

-cover a larger area

-be more accurate

-hold more stamps

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, Wulfmaer said:

Would be nice if the map image, rather than just the blank map, was displayed when trying hang on the wall. I find it far to easy to rotate them, at least with a magic mouse as the default macOS settings are far too sensitive to control placement rotation in the game while being just right for scrolling elsewhere... Would be nice to add a move rclick menu with rotation and move up/down, left/right options. A rotate for north up would be a nice start.

 

Yeah I noticed that yesterday that the default rotation when placing isn't north-up. I can fix that at least, not sure about having it visible when placing though, I'll have to have a bit of a look at that.

 

9 hours ago, Wulfmaer said:

Would also be nice if stamps were visible on a map when hung on the wall.

 

That one is a bit harder, and might be a post-release update.

 

4 hours ago, kochinac said:

Also, i didn't play with it long, but is unclear to me how to se progress of surveying, in like, when taking additional surveys how it improves the report and final result, maybe add some text indicator on examing survey report in percentages or something like that

 

Thanks, will add something to the examine to get more info about the current state.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

First off, I'm quite happy with the idea of making/sharing maps, just for the fun of it, and to note down/share directions to places. Being able to describe the location of a deed, rift, mine entrance etc. by coping a map from my atlas, marking it there and sending the copy by mail... I'd like that. Or marking out larger terraforming projects on ingame maps, to coordinate efforts... Storing maps of some areas, coming back years later, make new maps and compare changes... and yes, tie it in with treasure maps, locations of goblin camps or holy sites... lots of fun ahread.

 

After a short test, mostly just the of the surveying, here my first nitpicky remarks:

 

Overall, walking the area, checking different points, using the dioptra, making notes, it does feel a lot like surveying. I did't mid refilling the pen, just a tad of realism ;)

 

I didn't much like the pointing icons for the direction towards the starting spot/survey spot, though. It feels disjointed with the text messages we get in other areas, like "very far ahead of you to your right", it misses the distance part, and feels more like just following a pointer than thinking about the directions and figuring out the spot yourself.

 

Connected to that, I like the idea of going back and forth between landmarks, high and low points in the area, but the actual survey points (especially when improving the survey) don't seem to be at local maxima or minima in height, but rather random highish or lowish points in the area, again making them hard/impossible to find while looking at the land yourself, so just relying on the icons/glowing spots, and not on the "physical" shape of the area.

Also swimming into the ocean to reach a survey spot seems weird, following/mapping the actual coast line would make more sense to me.

 

tl;dr: Surveying the area, checking different points, is a nice start for the mapping system. I'd prefer more detailed textual directions to actual geographic features over following glowy quest pointers to random points.

 

P.S. Having the completed, but improvable map giving some information about improving it seems like a good idea.

Edited by Merfin
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this