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Darklords

Cartography Testing - Feedback Wanted!

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carto_testing_post.png

 

We’re looking for feedback on the new Cartography skill and you’re invited! The testing is currently taking place on Druska only. You will find a crystal at the Oracle starter village named Exploration Testing, using this will take you there.

 

  • To use the test client, use the Choose Client shortcut or add -c at the end of your target in your Wurm Online Launcher shortcut and choose the Exploration Testing client.
    • https://i.gyazo.com/1459470db14836ef48f52d474a14e659.png
  • For Steam, right-click Wurm Online in your Steam Library and click Properties. Then add a -c to the Launch Options and choose the Exploration Testing client.
    • a2e7df19b57a97bbfb5ae1b5f89bf04c.png
  • Make sure you select the Exploration Testing option from the menu as the normal testing client will be missing new effects and crash when doing things like opening maps. Also make sure you travel to the Druska testing server as this is the only server with the new feature enabled.
    • 51a9ad8be091c09d1392184fab7daeb2.png
  • Logging in with a new username/password will register an account automatically and log you in.
  • Selecting any item and using it on the ground will give a test option which allows you to change your skills and spawn in items like armour and weapons. You can also use it to change your faith, deity and spawn items like vesselled gems/statuette. Submitting the test menu will also heal you fully and restore your stamina.    
  • At the bottom of the test item creation option you can also spawn in a fully geared horse/ropes to get around quicker.    

 

As well as the usual reporting of bugs and weird things, we’re interested in how difficult you find learning how the system works, and what issues you run into as you go through the steps. Because of this, we’re not going to explain much in this post on how to get started since everything in-game should explain it for you.

 

To that end, the test menu has a few new options added for relevant items. To access the test menu just activate any item and right-click the ground to select from the list. The Cartography-related items are at the bottom of the list.

 

e7f73fd9a042151de5434c68569a29da.png

 

The journal has a new tier that should be immediately available as an introduction to the skill, and will hopefully have all of the necessary information for you to do everything the skill has. Once you hit 10 Cartography, a second tier will become available and take you through an introduction to stamps.

 

If you find any issues or have any questions be sure to let us know below.

 

 

Druska Mapdump

mapdump_druska.png

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I think this feature is not really my style of gameplay but I'll give some feedback on it, given I've completed the journals.

 

I was a bit surprised to see how free form it is, I sort of expected that it  would auto place or at least suggest where a structure stamp would go.

 

For combining maps some opacity on the one you are moving would be nice so you can more easily line up overlaps.

 

I couldn't imprint the village stamp, is this due to perms?

 

As above, is linking to the world map completely manual.

 

nSmfTbw.png

10/10 would stamp

 

Edit:
Maps can be burned, amazing

 

Edit 2:

Erasing all markers seems a bit brute force but maybe thats fine.

Edited by Lethyria
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7 hours ago, Darklords said:

Make sure you select the Exploration Testing option from the menu as the normal testing client will be missing new effects and crash when doing things like opening maps. Also make sure you travel to the Druska testing server as this is the only server with the new feature enabled.

  • 51a9ad8be091c09d1392184fab7daeb2.png

 

Tried that, but it is just connecting me with the original test server, Oracle!!

 

At least I'm fairly sure that is what is happening as I'm appearing in the world at the place I was at previously, and not on the new items are in the test menu.

 

Would also help if I read the final bit of that red paragraph, and travelled back to the starter town and used the portal...

Edited by Wulfmaer

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3 hours ago, Lethyria said:

For combining maps some opacity on the one you are moving would be nice so you can more easily line up overlaps.

 

100% agree, added that to my list to fix - thanks.

 

3 hours ago, Lethyria said:

As above, is linking to the world map completely manual.

 

Yes

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I spent a few hours on it. Have completed the first journal.

And on stamps now.

This is pretty detailed. Way to big a time sync for me. I'll just mooch artwork off someone else.

So many new items. Some really good looking items for decorating.

I wish that the Survey directions did not fade out over time. OR at least did not fade out unless you where moving.

Only way I could do this is if I was alt tabbing another character at the same time.  So I'll tab back and my survey spyglass has already faded away.

Every thing is very manual. I haven't been able to do much with the gems on the stamps. But that is probably just me.

Having to refill the reed after every survey that you make notations for is annoying. 

When you examine the stamps they don't tell you what gem you have in them(yes they do have a color indicator).

Lethyria said:

"For combining maps some opacity on the one you are moving would be nice so you can more easily line up overlaps."

The above is a must.

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It would be great to have toolbelts available in the testing menu.
The starter two slot one is rather limiting and I don't see any way to get leather to make my own.
You may also want to add a reed pen to the test menu kits. I had to go find some wild reeds.


Another thing I noticed is that there does not seem to be any error text about there not being ink in the stamps.

And it would be nice if you could use multiple ink pots in your inventory. It seems to only look for ink in one of the pots/pens from my inventory.

Edited by Arno

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[09:43:34] Using your survey notes and clues from the land, you figure the next place to record from is behind you to the right.

 

This one is sending me further and further out to sea...

I think I will try a new spot.

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Make a couple of maps that overlap, seemed like a good idea, the contour lines on them are very different. Should have copied the maps before combining, but here is the resulting combination, a lot of the contours disappeared on the combined map.

 

BTMLss3.png

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Seems great, I will test a bit more later. 

 

Could do some seasonal events with this, GM/Devs spawning maps for everyone, as a treasure hunt or scavenger hunt...slay..easter egg hunt...

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vxjrOto.png
I think the large bell resonater has the wrong icon.
The huge bell also has the same issue.

Edited by Arno

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Going to leave combining these until there is some transparency, but you should be able to see what I mean about the contour lines being quite different.

 

qPtTRMq.png

 

The tar patch on the right hand map is the same tar patch as in the map I posted earlier - here a contour crosses it, in the other it doesn't.

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The skill seems to give about three times the tick size for characteristics compared to other skills with the same timer length.

This is likely fine since you're intended to travel between the different survey points.
However, it is currently possible to create many surveys in a row and then you can continue all the surveys on the exact same point.
I think you can gain a lot of cartography skill and possibly also characteristics (body stamina, body control and mind logic) by repeating both starting and continuing surveys like this.

Edited by Arno
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After testing this skill I can say that it's way too much work for something that I see no value in the skill in-game while it would be cool for decorations, I just don't see the point in the skill or the maps themselves when we already have community maps that have things marked and laid out. Its easier to use the community map than to skill this new skill. 

 

This skill may be for others but it's just not something I see myself grinding. 

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7 hours ago, Arno said:

It would be great to have toolbelts available in the testing menu.
The starter two slot one is rather limiting and I don't see any way to get leather to make my own.
You may also want to add a reed pen to the test menu kits. I had to go find some wild reeds.

 

One of the test options does give you a reed pen.


I put some belts at a bookcase by the marble building. (Feel free to use any thing there. after to many hours trying things out yesterday. I'm a little burned on it. maybe I'll revisit it later in the week.)
But yes, a better tool belt on the testing menu would be good. Maybe given on the Test, "Basic Tools" option.(Hmm, I didn't check that  if you got one with that option or not)
 

Spoiler

p0KPIkf.jpeg

 

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Would be cool if this could be used in tandem with treasure maps to find location they mark or list.

Also wouldn't mind a generic this far away from message like we have from pendulums but obviously a shorter one.

Edited by necroe
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22 minutes ago, necroe said:

Would be cool if this could be used in tandem with treasure maps to find location they mark or list.

Also wouldn't mind a generic this far away from message like we have from pendulums but obviously a shorter one.

They had a generic message like pendulums on the maps they removed that. You don’t really need this for treasure maps as most maps are solve-able just by looking at the map dump. This skill is too long and tedious for me to want to add it to something else in the game. I’m still trying to figure out the purpose behind cartography and what uses it has in the game.

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39 minutes ago, BattleWall said:

They had a generic message like pendulums on the maps they removed that. You don’t really need this for treasure maps as most maps are solve-able just by looking at the map dump. This skill is too long and tedious for me to want to add it to something else in the game. I’m still trying to figure out the purpose behind cartography and what uses it has in the game.

My view personally is not everything needs a direct benefit somehow and sometimes things just for the fun of it are nice also. This skill was more inspired by allowing people to be creative and display that in the world where they can be enjoyed. At the end of the day its hard to make something everyone will enjoy, extra so in a game like Wurm where we just have so many different possible play styles and skills people like/don't like. We hope though once its live people will find plenty of fun and creative things to do with them over time, and will be open to suggestions on things we could add to increase the possibilities in future updates.

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11 hours ago, Ohana said:

I wish that the Survey directions did not fade out over time. OR at least did not fade out unless you where moving.

Only way I could do this is if I was alt tabbing another character at the same time.  So I'll tab back and my survey spyglass has already faded away.

 

I'll have another look at the duration of these and see if I can get something a bit better.

 

11 hours ago, Ohana said:

Having to refill the reed after every survey that you make notations for is annoying. 

 

Having an ink pot in your inventory will act as a backup source of ink for reed pens (so if your pen is empty, it'll automatically pull from the ink pot).

 

9 hours ago, Hailiah said:

This one is sending me further and further out to sea...

 

You'll be sent up to ~37 tiles from the starting location in any direction during the survey, so having to go out into the water is expected.

 

9 hours ago, Wulfmaer said:

Make a couple of maps that overlap, seemed like a good idea, the contour lines on them are very different. Should have copied the maps before combining, but here is the resulting combination, a lot of the contours disappeared on the combined map.

 

This is kind of intended since the contour intervals are determined by the map location (and quality of the map). I get the issue though, so I'll have another look at it - it might be something like over a certain skill or survey quality you start recording global contour intervals instead of local ones.

 

4 hours ago, Arno said:

The skill seems to give about three times the tick size for characteristics compared to other skills with the same timer length.

This is likely fine since you're intended to travel between the different survey points.
However, it is currently possible to create many surveys in a row and then you can continue all the surveys on the exact same point.
I think you can gain a lot of cartography skill and possibly also characteristics (body stamina, body control and mind logic) by repeating both starting and continuing surveys like this.

 

Thanks, we'll have a look at this. For multiple surveys that are around the same spot: you'll gain skill for that, but at a much reduced rate to doing things properly. It tracks locations on where you're surveying and scales down gains based on time since you last did that location and any nearby surveys that you did there.

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I completed the journal levels Introduction: Cartography and Introduction: Stamps

 

I used an 'x mark' time stamp on a painted map to complete the "Imprint a Time or Annotation stamp" goal but I can't see what effect it had on the map.

 

I haven't been able to figure out how map linking works. It asks to link to a location on one of the live server maps but since there is not a map of Druska in game I don't see a way to test this.

 

Overall cartography is easy to learn by completing journal goals, but I'm unsure how useful it will be in game.

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5 hours ago, Ohana said:

 

One of the test options does give you a reed pen.


I put some belts at a bookcase by the marble building. (Feel free to use any thing there. after to many hours trying things out yesterday. I'm a little burned on it. maybe I'll revisit it later in the week.)
But yes, a better tool belt on the testing menu would be good. Maybe given on the Test, "Basic Tools" option.(Hmm, I didn't check that  if you got one with that option or not)
 

  Reveal hidden contents

p0KPIkf.jpeg

 

Oh, this is at the another starter town. I started at gone fishing.
The fantastic Oracle crystal didn't do anything after clicking yes and send.

I had to restart on an alt since I can't seem to teleport to the other.
I found a toolbelt and was able to afford mail after selling some things to token.

I checked again and the basic tools did not have a toolbelt so glad i got this one now.
Thanks for helping with the testing.

Edited by Arno

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1 hour ago, Explora said:

I completed the journal levels Introduction: Cartography and Introduction: Stamps

 

I used an 'x mark' time stamp on a painted map to complete the "Imprint a Time or Annotation stamp" goal but I can't see what effect it had on the map.

 

I haven't been able to figure out how map linking works. It asks to link to a location on one of the live server maps but since there is not a map of Druska in game I don't see a way to test this.

 

Overall cartography is easy to learn by completing journal goals, but I'm unsure how useful it will be in game.

 

Aye, especially with the proliferation of third party maps created to fill the void that has existed for so long.

 

Perhaps if cartography skill and/or created maps helped with treasure hunts in some way.

 

3 hours ago, Budda said:

Having an ink pot in your inventory will act as a backup source of ink for reed pens (so if your pen is empty, it'll automatically pull from the ink pot).

 

I hope this works for other writing tasks such as copying recipes. That would be a huge QoL upgrade.

Edited by Karrde

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8 hours ago, BattleWall said:

After testing this skill I can say that it's way too much work for something that I see no value in the skill in-game while it would be cool for decorations, I just don't see the point in the skill or the maps themselves when we already have community maps that have things marked and laid out. Its easier to use the community map than to skill this new skill. 

Kinda curious for this to be addressed as well.

 

I might be myopic here but what addition does cartography give vs already established community maps? It seems to be a feature on top of a well established reliable system.

 

Don't get me wrong. I love the idea of cartography in game and have been an ardent supporter for years and I want this to happen. I just want to understand the gameplay / game design justification for such an implementation if possible. I know it's too late to change any development decisions, but I want to understand what it bring on top of what already is. Kinda like incremental validity in science.

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Are we allowed to have some client-side fun by editing the maps? The map image files are easily accessible.

Spoiler

Ayb5lrj.jpg

 

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1 hour ago, elentari said:

Kinda curious for this to be addressed as well.

 

I might be myopic here but what addition does cartography give vs already established community maps? It seems to be a feature on top of a well established reliable system.

 

Don't get me wrong. I love the idea of cartography in game and have been an ardent supporter for years and I want this to happen. I just want to understand the gameplay / game design justification for such an implementation if possible. I know it's too late to change any development decisions, but I want to understand what it bring on top of what already is. Kinda like incremental validity in science.

 

I explained a few posts under the one you quoted, you can consider this our official stance on the matter.

6 hours ago, Darklords said:

My view personally is not everything needs a direct benefit somehow and sometimes things just for the fun of it are nice also. This skill was more inspired by allowing people to be creative and display that in the world where they can be enjoyed. At the end of the day its hard to make something everyone will enjoy, extra so in a game like Wurm where we just have so many different possible play styles and skills people like/don't like. We hope though once its live people will find plenty of fun and creative things to do with them over time, and will be open to suggestions on things we could add to increase the possibilities in future updates.

 

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3 hours ago, elentari said:

Don't get me wrong. I love the idea of cartography in game and have been an ardent supporter for years and I want this to happen. I just want to understand the gameplay / game design justification for such an implementation if possible. I know it's too late to change any development decisions, but I want to understand what it bring on top of what already is. Kinda like incremental validity in science.

 

Community maps are great, and we're not aiming to replace them or get rid of them. One of the main upsides of cartography is moving the usefulness of community maps in-game and in-world. As Darklords has said, if that doesn't interest you and you'd prefer to continue using community maps, that's fine - not every skill is going to be enjoyable for every person.

 

We've kept the details light for this testing thread purposefully to get feedback on the discovery process of the skill, but for a quick list of things it adds beyond the community maps: Map the same area over time, create copies to give/trade to other players, display them in-world, combine multiple maps to show a larger area, embed information about various things via stamps, directly link to locations on the world map, and link maps to other maps.

It'll be up to players to decide how they use these features, but as an example of how I foresee them being used: Easy comparison against treasure maps, mapping larger areas for decoration, keeping a history of a village over time, event countdowns & directions, local information maps (like mapping your village and annotating anything useful for new visitors), and player-made treasure maps. I'm also looking forward to them being used in ways we haven't thought of yet.

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