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Etherdrifter

Unique Changes Poll

Unique Poll - Transparant Vote  

181 members have voted

  1. 1. Which player group do you belong to?

    • I have a premium toon on North Freedom Isle and I do not have a full set of scale/drake
      46
    • I have a premium toon on North Freedom Isle and I have a full set of scale/drake
      17
    • I have a premium toon on South Freedom Isle and I do not have a full set of scale/drake
      41
    • I have a premium toon on South Freedom Isle and I have a full set of scale/drake
      53
    • I have a premium toon on Both and I do not have a full set of scale/drake
      12
    • I have a premium toon on Both and I have a full set of scale/drake
      7
    • I do not currently have any premium toons but have a full set of scale/drake
      0
    • I do not currently have any premium toons and do not have a full set of drake/scale
      5
  2. 2. How often do you take part in private hunts?

    • Frequently (a few times a month or more)
      13
    • Often (once a month)
      15
    • Sometimes (once every 2--3 months)
      14
    • Rarely (once a year)
      19
    • Very Infrequently (once or twice in the last few years)
      33
    • Never (I don't get invites)
      87
  3. 3. What changes do you believe should be implemented for uniques

    • Reduce Spawn Frequency
      13
    • Increase Spawn Frequency
      46
    • Split a set amount of loot between slayers only
      40
    • Distribute the hide/scale by a set amount to everyone in local (for example everyone gets a set 0.05kg of material, regardless of number of people fighting the unique)
      32
    • Distribute the loot to everyone on server, like the ritual rewards do, allowing to claim it for 24h from slaying, similarly to global cast reward sleep bonus
      33
    • Remove the rules and replace them with systemic solution, much like was done with the highway system.
      38
    • Announce when uniques spawn
      59
    • Mark unique's location in some way (maps/beacons)
      41
    • Change nothing
      32
    • Other (note it down in comments)
      21


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The accusation of "whaling" is highly moralizing and hypocritic, at least in Wurm. There is no "pay to win" as you cannot "win" a sandbox game. If you buy yourself on top of a "leaderboard", you make even more a fool out of yourself than those overly crazy about such "leaderboards". In Wurm, most is less about being better than others than being better than your own self of the past. And no money can buy experience.

 

When exploring, be it just for knowledge and fun, for treasure maps, or for uniques, knowledge of the terrain counts, and how to master it. You may buy a decent armour and weapon, a good mount and ship, but you cannot buy FS, body strength, weapon skill, nor prospecting skill to evaluate the world underground, nor climbing skill to master rough terrain. The times of RMT where you could just buy a high level character are long gone.

 

Skill, knowledge, and experience need time, you cannot drop into Wurm and buy yourself to the "top", whichever that may be. And with uniques, money helps least. Ok, buying a set works. And that is a problem in NFI only.

Edited by Ekcin
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4 hours ago, Ekcin said:

And with uniques, money helps least. Ok, buying a set works. And that is a problem in NFI only.

I wonder if we're playing the same game. For real. *sarcasm* 

 

The fact that every mmo out there , sandbox or not, has its whales should be bloody obvious in 2022. Some games literally build their entire monetization models around whales. As for sandbox or not, what does it matter?

The game has goals. Having money makes many of those goals easier. 

 

Want to skill up HFC? Buy panfilling with silvers. Want to complete the drake / scale journal goal? Buy a set. Want a faster horse to save time? Buy supreme gear + rare speed trait horse. 

 

4 hours ago, Ekcin said:

And that is a problem in NFI only.

You forget that many problems NFI has were brought on by SFI players that settled there and took advantage of a new cluster by using knowledge gained from years of playing. 

 

Hell , do you even believe for a bloody second that if scale / drake hide wasn't so valuable people wouldn't fight over each other to pen them? Those scales / drake hides are worth a LOT of money. This is one of the issues uniques have. No other way to earn scales other than buying them or being lucky enough to be part of a super-mega unique hunting group that pens and kills 50 dragons per year (which isn't possible anyway, unless they get insanely lucky). 

 

Which brings me to my last point. Skills , knowledge mean jack if someone else is just luckier than you. 

Edited by elentari
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14 hours ago, Ekcin said:

Complaining about "leeching alts" and too many participants does no good. The alts, as well as the others, contribute to colour and diversity during events, and are not just "leeching", e.g. holding sermons etc. Insisting that only a handful of players are allowed to participate is no valid point, Wurm must not be a "no more than 50 chars at a time" game. Performance problems during mass events have been addressed and have improved. And the rules are not so hard to understand and follow, GM intervention is not that frequent, and special to Cadence with its somewhat toxic culture which is not restricted to unique slayings. And I fail to see too many secrets left in unique slayings. In fact, SFI is ways more relaxed when it comes to uniques, which demonstrates where the real problem lays.

 

Why does it do no good? Because people willfully misinterpret other peoples' positions, setting up "straw men" to knock down easily?

 

I didn't say that only a handful of players should be allowed to participate. I specifically said that was one of the two extremes that was problematic.

  1. Slayings are either private/exclusive/elitist — or — there are so many leeching alts that the game slows to a crawl. There should be a happy medium.

... in case you missed it. In fact, I don't think that anyone said slayings should have no sermons, or diversity, or colour. The only people opposed to public events seems to be those who only want small private groups to slay dragons.

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This poll seems... kind of over the top. It's not providing much useful information because it's too bloated. There's too many options for fairly simple questions. Additionally, the proposed solutions are unable to be described properly and lack context for the purposes of this poll. I would much rather see the proposed solutions replaced with perceived issues. Players are generally quite good at identifying problems, but lack foresight about how changes can affect tertiary systems. This is shown by some of these solutions causing multiple issues that cannot be properly expressed in the poll.

 

An example of a more easily digestible format for this poll that I think would perform better and give meaningful results and statistics to analyze:

  • NFI Character
    • Have Set
    • Don't Have Set
  • SFI Character
    • Have Set
    • Don't Have Set
  • Frequency of Private Hunts
    • Very Active (once a month or more)
    • Active (about once per 3 months)
    • Infrequent (a few times per year)
    • Inactive (never)
  • Opinions of System Issues
    • I want to earn a set, but don't feel I have the opportunity to do so
    • Hunts are too time consuming
    • Hunts are not enjoyable
    • Sets are too rare
    • etc. etc.
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Whether you have a set or not shouldn't even be a question. It has no bearing on the situation, and only seeks to insinuate those who have a set should not have an opinion in the matter. 

 

People may have acquired a set through purchasing, trading, or even from old slayings or from long past friends, you don't need one to want to see the system change. 

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1 hour ago, Archaed said:

Whether you have a set or not shouldn't even be a question. It has no bearing on the situation, and only seeks to insinuate those who have a set should not have an opinion in the matter. 

It's actually a good measure of bias.

 

Essentially, if you have a full set, then you've either sunk a lot of time into the game, or you've invested a lot of money into the game.   That group is likely to be a minority of the population as a whole.

 

Given the ratios here, it's really just proved that the forum isn't a good place to run a poll due to the bias of its members to long-term/whale players.

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having a set does not stop priv groups from farming more lol

 

other cases are if you have the opportunity and want more.. nothing stops you to farm and hoard or stockpile for alt/s, etc

if any of that is a problem is another matter

 

sin had good point with keeping things simple and leave data to present itself, putting no bias in the answers, just gather the blank true numbers, figure what and why later from the results

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6 hours ago, Sheffie said:

Why does it do no good? Because people willfully misinterpret other peoples' positions, setting up "straw men" to knock down easily? I didn't say that only a handful of players should be allowed to participate. I specifically said that was one of the two extremes that was problematic.

Speaking about strawmen: Insinuating that too many alts are so bad due to slowing down the server, that is a strawman. We have no more than around 1000-1200 players on all servers at peak times, with an average of <5000 unique logins in rolling weekly average. We had 500+ characters events in the past, with moderate lag. That is a technical problem which has to be addressed, and is done by the devs, and done well. Extreme lags were due to problems with the login server and mainly happen during crossings. The 250-400 participants on average slayings are far from "extreme", and trying to ban or deter participants is certainly the wrong way.

 

And yes, I am "biased" here. My "leeching alts" are paying the same premium as you and me. And I like big public events where they interact among one another, and with other players. That is one of the rarer occasions where they are all up, and there is a roleplay aspect too. They have all the same right to appear like you and me.

 

6 hours ago, Sheffie said:

... in case you missed it. In fact, I don't think that anyone said slayings should have no sermons, or diversity, or colour. The only people opposed to public events seems to be those who only want small private groups to slay dragons.

So far, I did not see a single participant of private slayings opposing to public ones. On contrary, not few more frequent participants in private slayings have organized public ones and still do so. What about "strawmen"?

 

But please, I do not want to polemicize, and as far as I have offended you, I offer my apologies. Let us stick to the facts.

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4 hours ago, Etherdrifter said:

It's actually a good measure of bias.

 

Essentially, if you have a full set, then you've either sunk a lot of time into the game, or you've invested a lot of money into the game.   That group is likely to be a minority of the population as a whole.

 

Given the ratios here, it's really just proved that the forum isn't a good place to run a poll due to the bias of its members to long-term/whale players.

So you have a theory, that it's a minority that has a set. You then run a poll where the numbers tell you that the majority of the people voting have a set

 

So what you then do, is you use your assumption to then justify the results, rather than take the learnings of the results and change your hypothesis? 

 

That's not how stats work at all. 

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It is trivial that forum users are not the majority of Wurm players.

 

- Some are not Wurm players, not Wurm Online players, or not Wurm players anymore

- Many Wurm players do not participate in forums:

  • some do not even know the forums
  • some, probably most, are not interested
  • many do read only (which does not necessarily require registration afaik)
  • many do not write for a host of reasons, from language or writing skill insecurity to being repulsed by harsh discussions or feeling not sufficiently competent

- Among those participating, long time players are overrepresented.

 

But ok, a MMO is not a democracy. We are allowed to present and discuss our views only by the company. That is not a right of the users, albeit a standard in gaming industry.

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4 hours ago, Archaed said:

So you have a theory, that it's a minority that has a set. You then run a poll where the numbers tell you that the majority of the people voting have a set

 

So what you then do, is you use your assumption to then justify the results, rather than take the learnings of the results and change your hypothesis? 

 

That's not how stats work at all. 

 

Stealing that for my class - it's a good example of conflating a sample result with a population result.

 

Ok, so back on track here - a lot of people are suggesting alternative polls.  I'd very much encourage you to put them together and try them out - just be aware that a lot of people would rather avoid 3rd party sites.

 

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actually uniques are fun and all be nice to see a diversity of them and maybe even include  hide/ scale as a very very rare treasure loot so even those who do not part take in slaying or are f2p can actually have a small chance of getting pieces either way it all fun and games. btw i do like hunting uniques myself but some of us dont have as much time to spend hunting them. still wish to see some uniques are are uncaptureable like water based or flying 

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I'm certainly no Wurm expert, being basically a Steam launch baby in 2020, but I think the one choice that is the perfect solution, and most fair, would be an announcement that there is a spawn somewhere. At some point, if you've gotten all the great rewards from doing something, it's really just a person hoarding things for their own personal gain. Normally there is nothing wrong with that, but others should at least have a shot at that point (where a person already has the great rewards and is just hoarding for personal gain). 

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The saying "the worlds tiniest violin" springs to mind when I see posts like this....ofc individuals or teams with more time are always going to come out on top, welcome to the real world. I've never had a dragon or drake armour set but I'm also not crying about it and calling foul. It wont matter what changes are made when its not the games issue but the players available time that really causes the perceived imbalance. Adding more uniques, changing drops and/or who receives loot from slayings still wont change who has the time and who doesn't. Adding scale or hide to the real high end treasure maps might give solo players a chance to collect scale or hide however.

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13 hours ago, Zarwaddim said:

I'm certainly no Wurm expert, being basically a Steam launch baby in 2020, but I think the one choice that is the perfect solution, and most fair, would be an announcement that there is a spawn somewhere. At some point, if you've gotten all the great rewards from doing something, it's really just a person hoarding things for their own personal gain. Normally there is nothing wrong with that, but others should at least have a shot at that point (where a person already has the great rewards and is just hoarding for personal gain). 

Unfortunately announcements on when they were spawned were deliberately removed among other detection methods to avoid folks forming up the second it spawns and hunting it down within hours, leaving no chance for natural discovery by unwhitting parties. Since the removal of global announcements and other things the amount of folks randomly stumbling into a unique has greatly increased.

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I filled my test out wrong and can't change my answers. 😕

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On 11/19/2022 at 1:02 AM, Shrimpiie said:

Unfortunately announcements on when they were spawned were deliberately removed among other detection methods to avoid folks forming up the second it spawns and hunting it down within hours, leaving no chance for natural discovery by unwhitting parties. Since the removal of global announcements and other things the amount of folks randomly stumbling into a unique has greatly increased.

This is true, my wife has stumbled across two dragons while being out and about on Cad.  The first “ambushed” her from a ruining building and turned into a private killing for our alliance.  The second a couple of months later was in a forest when she was looking for meteorites and was, I believe, the first public dragon slaying on Cad - I know that so many people attended lots with alts that the lag was awful with getting home afterwards almost impossible as the terrain didn’t Rez.  She hasn’t found one since but keeps hoping to find another while exploring.

 

When out and about I tend to keep an eye open for uniques, not hunting them but just looking for side to side as it were and hoping that one day I might spot one.

Edited by Moteandbailey
Typos

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Honestly nothing should change. It’s fine as it is.

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Well, "fine" is possibly a mild exaggeration, given the frequent complaints. But I agree so far that it is better than all proposals for change so far.

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I have a NFI premium char and no set.

 

Prices for a set of drake/dragon armor on NFI run above 1.000 €. For me that is an insane amount of money. Money I can not and will not ever spend on some pixels and so will very likely never check off the corresponding journal entry.

The solution in my eye should include an alternative source of scale/hide making slaying one or the best method to obtain them, but not the ONLY one.

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As a player who has been Dragon fodder found uniques, attended private and public slayings.

 

It is an outdated mechanic that needs a rework.

It is an outdated mechanic that relies upon knowing the rules stated in this forum Wurm Online - Unique Hunting Guidelines - GM Hall - Wurm Online Forum

Which I didn't know about for YEARS and many new players do not know about, recent example 2017 Green Dragon still out there? - Xanadu - Wurm Online Forum

 

I would like to see it become more like a rift event, with loot participation distribution at the end, player finds giant egg (for hatchling) or i dunno 'golden hoard' for the adults, interacts with egg/whatever to trigger event, light in the sky, 2 days preparation, etc (Similar trigger stuff for the other Uniques)

 

What about the books? we get pages to collect...more trade opportunities

Bones? bone fragments already exist in game...

 

Edited by Hailiah
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All the drama over unique is basically about the loot. I'm a confident players don't fight unique creatures for fun.  imo, if I had the power to do so, I'd just distribute the loot equally to everyone so no one can argue about loot anymore. And yes, I'm pro-socialist and don't subscribe to ideas that give higher contributors better rewards.

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On 12/16/2022 at 1:09 PM, joedobo said:

All the drama over unique is basically about the loot. I'm a confident players don't fight unique creatures for fun.  imo, if I had the power to do so, I'd just distribute the loot equally to everyone so no one can argue about loot anymore. And yes, I'm pro-socialist and don't subscribe to ideas that give higher contributors better rewards.

Actually I do fight the unique's for fun and I am sure that I am not alone in this.

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On 12/15/2022 at 4:49 PM, Bekador said:

Prices for a set of drake/dragon armor on NFI run above 1.000 €. For me that is an insane amount of money.

The insanity is counting ingame silvers as real life money. It is a sick whale attitude of "I can buy anything ingame". Gladly that is not the case.

1000 silver for a scale set means 149s/kg, which is about double of the 75s/kg on SFI. Given that SFI has 7(8) servers as resource base versus 3 on NFI with roughly same population, that is an adequate pricing.

 

The solution is not a bandaid to the cluster divide, but its removal. Otherwise the unique mechanism may be not ideal, it is not that bad either. It was never meant as scale/hide set for everybody and my dog.

Edited by Ekcin

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Umm. who come up with the questions for this poll ?

 

Maybe one should be..

 

"How much did you spend to get a drake set "

 

If you didn't pay for it as everyone can see. ..

 

Never (I don't get invites)  48.17%

 

That means you gone to Public Slaying's or you buy it. let see you get 0.01 hide at Public Slaying's that means you have to go to 50 of them to make one boot.And if there private how much hide do you get ? 0.30, 0.40 

 

So every one who has a set payed for it or has gone to a private kill or it took them 100000 public kills to save up.

 

Rifts or the best thing and equal event in this game. why cant it be like that?

Some ppl will say it take the hunt out of it. thers no hunt about it eveyone knows around about where there going to spaw in the forums give that away theirs not much random about where so if you say that the hunt of it will its not much of one.

 

Edited by Tigerclaw
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