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Keenan

Shop Bundle Pricing Correction

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Hello all,

 

It was recently brought to our attention once again that the bundle pricing in the shop did not make sense. Specifically, the first two bundles offered were priced higher than the combined total of the items sold. This has been rectified as of today. The bundle prices have been reduced to ensure that they are at a discount, even if a small one, as opposed to buying the items individually.

 

It has been said that this was a deceptive practice, and that does not rest well with me. To that end, I've gone back over the last year of transactions and have given a list of players to the GM team. We will be granting 3 days of premium per bundle purchase of the 1-month-5-silver bundle to make good for the extra cost incurred. You will not need to place a ticket or email us as we've already gathered the data from our transaction history.

 

Thank you, and happy Wurming!

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I believe this was the exact example I brought up a year or maybe more ago, thank you for addressing this.   How will we know if we're in this list, will we get a message/email or just a bump in the prem time?

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I'd urge using the option of providing those qualifying players with a bonus code for their 3 days premium rather than developers just adding it directly at some unknown time.

 

Premium time is used up whether the character is online or not, and it's best for players to be aware of when and whether their character has premium time coming to them before it appears, and better yet, allowing them to activate that compensatory premium time at their leisure.

 

Having premium time added and used up while one is on winter holiday or some other time away from the game might not leave a good impression on customers.

 

 

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@Keenan

Talking about deceiving tactics (intended or not) any plans to also fix this one (and eventually reimburse us too) where you're actually straight up lying us saying on the 10 silver package that it is ~1.1 eur per silver, when in fact it's ~1.3 euro per silver? I know that I personally fall for that one. And yeah, I could have made the math, but I just trusted that you wouldn't straight up lying about it.

CCCPJ12.png

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13 hours ago, Tristanc said:

I'd urge using the option of providing those qualifying players with a bonus code for their 3 days premium rather than developers just adding it directly at some unknown time.

 

Premium time is used up whether the character is online or not, and it's best for players to be aware of when and whether their character has premium time coming to them before it appears, and better yet, allowing them to activate that compensatory premium time at their leisure.

 

Having premium time added and used up while one is on winter holiday or some other time away from the game might not leave a good impression on customers.

 

 

I agree a code would be nice.

 

There is also the possibility someone brought a bundle on an alt they no longer use. The Premium bonus would be useless to them on that character, but possibly beneficial on their main character.

 

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On 10/29/2022 at 4:54 PM, Nomadikhan said:

I believe this was the exact example I brought up a year or maybe more ago, thank you for addressing this.   How will we know if we're in this list, will we get a message/email or just a bump in the prem time?

 

I had intended to write a script to send out emails, but could not get it done in time.

 

 

On 10/29/2022 at 8:23 PM, Tristanc said:

I'd urge using the option of providing those qualifying players with a bonus code for their 3 days premium rather than developers just adding it directly at some unknown time.

 

Premium time is used up whether the character is online or not, and it's best for players to be aware of when and whether their character has premium time coming to them before it appears, and better yet, allowing them to activate that compensatory premium time at their leisure.

 

Having premium time added and used up while one is on winter holiday or some other time away from the game might not leave a good impression on customers.

 

 

 

I considered the coupon route, but we lack the ability to create them via any sort of scripted means. Having gone back a year, there were a number of accounts with varying number of purchases that I wanted to address. Given that the GM team are volunteers, I wanted to be mindful of their time. Adding premium to an account can be done offline, whereas creating coupons and sending them out is a far more time-consuming task. That said, I will consider the use of coupons for premium reimbursement in the future so long as we can implement a means to automate mailing them out.

 

On 10/30/2022 at 6:24 AM, Bloodreina said:

@Keenan

Talking about deceiving tactics (intended or not) any plans to also fix this one (and eventually reimburse us too) where you're actually straight up lying us saying on the 10 silver package that it is ~1.1 eur per silver, when in fact it's ~1.3 euro per silver? I know that I personally fall for that one. And yeah, I could have made the math, but I just trusted that you wouldn't straight up lying about it.

CCCPJ12.png

 

I don't use Steam much at all, so I never noticed this. Personally, I don't feel this is lying nor of the same caliber of the error fixed in the non-Steam shop. The information is misleading, but I will have that corrected. The stated price will not change in this instance, however.

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1 hour ago, Keenan said:

 

I had intended to write a script to send out emails, but could not get it done in time.

 

 

 

I considered the coupon route, but we lack the ability to create them via any sort of scripted means. Having gone back a year, there were a number of accounts with varying number of purchases that I wanted to address. Given that the GM team are volunteers, I wanted to be mindful of their time. Adding premium to an account can be done offline, whereas creating coupons and sending them out is a far more time-consuming task. That said, I will consider the use of coupons for premium reimbursement in the future so long as we can implement a means to automate mailing them out.

 

 

I don't use Steam much at all, so I never noticed this. Personally, I don't feel this is lying nor of the same caliber of the error fixed in the non-Steam shop. The information is misleading, but I will have that corrected. The stated price will not change in this instance, however.

Thanks for all the clarification, Keenan

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2 hours ago, Keenan said:

I don't use Steam much at all, so I never noticed this. Personally, I don't feel this is lying nor of the same caliber of the error fixed in the non-Steam shop. The information is misleading, but I will have that corrected. The stated price will not change in this instance, however.


The price is actually really fair as it is - there's the two smallest packages at 1.3e/s, the two middle ones at 1.1e/s and the the two big ones at 1e/s.

That was not the issue. The issue was that the shop said "1.1e/s" on the 10 silver package and someone fast scanning the options could have easily chosen that option thinking they pay 1.1e/silver. I know I did and after that I felt cheated. So just fixing that red text in the future would be enough.

However, I do think that the right thing to do would be to reimburse us the difference in silver coins to match the price per silver you advertised. 12.99 / 1.1 - 10 = ~1.80 silver extra to everyone that purchased said package that was wrongfully advertised.

You say it's not wrong. Now I ask you (and anyone else) if I would advertise in game that I sell 10 items at 1.1 silver each and then I'll send the COD with a 13 silver price and the buyer would accept it in good faith, without double checking, would you consider that this is scam or not? Would you consider is fair to reimburse him the difference or you'd consider that nothing wrong happened?

Even more so when we talk about a company. I'm quite sure that this is illegal and falls into false advertising practice. Especially if a customer requests the fraudulent transaction to be reversed.

I can't be bothered to make a legal complaint, but I think that we all should report this to Steam to at least see what they think about it... if they tolerate such misleading practices on their marketplace...

Edited by Bloodreina

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21 minutes ago, Bloodreina said:


The price is actually really fair as it is - there's the two smallest packages at 1.3e/s, the two middle ones at 1.1e/s and the the two big ones at 1e/s.

That was not the issue. The issue was that the shop said "1.1e/s" on the 10 silver package and someone fast scanning the options could have easily chosen that option thinking they pay 1.1e/silver. I know I did and after that I felt cheated. So just fixing that red text in the future would be enough.

However, I do think that the right thing to do would be to reimburse us the difference in silver coins to match the price per silver you advertised. 12.99 / 1.1 - 10 = ~1.80 silver extra to everyone that purchased said package that was wrongfully advertised.

You say it's not wrong. Now I ask you (and anyone else) if I would advertise in game that I sell 10 items at 1.1 silver each and then I'll send the COD with a 13 silver price and the buyer would accept it in good faith, without double checking, would you consider that this is scam or not? Would you consider is fair to reimburse him the difference or you'd consider that nothing wrong happened?

Even more so when we talk about a company. I'm quite sure that this is illegal and falls into false advertising practice. Especially if a customer requests the fraudulent transaction to be reversed.

I can't be bothered to make a legal complaint, but I think that we all should report this to Steam to at least see what they think about it... if they tolerate such misleading practices on their marketplace...

 

If you have any complaints, you can direct them to contact@wurmonline.com. This is not the place to discuss legal matters. Further discussion of what is legal or illegal will be moderated. That's for lawyers to discuss.

 

The price isn't wrong. The line that indicates the approximate silver price per euro is inaccurate on that one entry and will be fixed.

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47 minutes ago, Keenan said:

 

This is not the place to discuss legal matters. Further discussion of what is legal or illegal will be moderated. That's for lawyers to discuss.


I thought that since you opened the subject and addressed my original message, it was best to just discuss the issue at hand and try to achieve a satisfactory solution for all involved parties via self-mediation, before further escalate this with the legal department.

But you are absolutely right, since it actually is a legal issue, that was probably not the right course of action and I shouldn't have attempted to do that, and certainly not via this channel. And for that I apologize and I promise to stop here any public discussion, and restrain myself to the formal / official channels.

Once again, sorry for bringing it on a public channel.

Edited by Bloodreina

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9 hours ago, Bloodreina said:


I thought that since you opened the subject and addressed my original message, it was best to just discuss the issue at hand and try to achieve a satisfactory solution for all involved parties via self-mediation, before further escalate this with the legal department.

But you are absolutely right, since it actually is a legal issue, that was probably not the right course of action and I shouldn't have attempted to do that, and certainly not via this channel. And for that I apologize and I promise to stop here any public discussion, and restrain myself to the formal / official channels.

Once again, sorry for bringing it on a public channel.

This is honestly one of the most inane things I've ever read though. If it's this much of a big deal to you I will gladly transfer you the funds you have "lost" over this **typo**. Imagine turning a thread which was an incredibly positive and upfront thing for a company to do into this self gratifying result. 

 

Thank you for your effort to do the right thing Keenan. As someone who has purchased well over 50 of these packages over various alts this is an incredible gesture and I appreciate the work that went into addressing this. 

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9 hours ago, Annuile said:

This is honestly one of the most inane things I've ever read though. If it's this much of a big deal to you I will gladly transfer you the funds you have "lost" over this **typo**. Imagine turning a thread which was an incredibly positive and upfront thing for a company to do into this self gratifying result. 

 

Thank you for your effort to do the right thing Keenan. As someone who has purchased well over 50 of these packages over various alts this is an incredible gesture and I appreciate the work that went into addressing this. 


Thank you, but I don't need your money (nor anyone's else money). It was not your mistake, there's no reason for you to pay for it.

I just want the entity that made said mistake (because, in all honesty, I do think that it was a mistake and not an ill-intention action) to take responsibility for it and make amends to make the things right.

And I am sorry, but I don't believe in the "let it slide" or "cut them some slack" mentality. People should be held responsible and accountable for their actions and for their mistakes.

It's not even about money in the first place, but about standing up for (what I consider to be) my rights. Also, I'm not requesting this (just) for myself, but for everyone else that might have been affected.

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awkward-confused.gif

 

>We're not trying to be deceptive

>brought to our attention again

>just a mistake

 

How many times has this happened? Not really sure continual mistakes are more reassuring lol

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4 minutes ago, Yggdrasil said:

awkward-confused.gif

 

>We're not trying to be deceptive

>brought to our attention again

>just a mistake

 

How many times has this happened? Not really sure continual mistakes are more reassuring lol

 

My wording was intentional. This was brought to my attention when I first stepped up as Product Manager and I failed to take action at that time. That's on me.

 

I do not spend much time regretting mistakes that are made, instead I spend time solving them and doing what I can to prevent the same ones from repeating in the future.

 

I believe that our pricing now makes sense and that the typo in the Steam Shop has also been corrected as of today.

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9 minutes ago, Keenan said:

 

My wording was intentional. This was brought to my attention when I first stepped up as Product Manager and I failed to take action at that time. That's on me.

 

I do not spend much time regretting mistakes that are made, instead I spend time solving them and doing what I can to prevent the same ones from repeating in the future.

 

I believe that our pricing now makes sense and that the typo in the Steam Shop has also been corrected as of today.

seinfeld-kramer.gif

 

Well it's certainly a step in the right direction.  Like I've said a few times over the years to other gms and devs, it's usually just the wording I nitpick.

 

Sometimes the wurm team has a habit of saying too much and making things sound worse than they are. Transparency is gold, but simplicity is priceless.

 

I've known you too long to believe it was anything more than a mistake, and everyone makes those. 

 

Glad that it's being resolved

 

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Honestly, it is hard to make math any easier and pretty hard to pull off a deception when dealing with "10".  How many people get fooled by that one?  It is a copy/paste goof clearly enough.  If they wanted to fool people, they would do it on 5 or 50, which take a second to think about.

 

Obviously they care and don't intentionally do these things.  They are going through great efforts to compensate for the other mistake and for this typo, I would never expect any action other than a typo fix.

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4 hours ago, Bloodreina said:


Thank you, but I don't need your money (nor anyone's else money). It was not your mistake, there's no reason for you to pay for it.

I just want the entity that made said mistake (because, in all honesty, I do think that it was a mistake and not an ill-intention action) to take responsibility for it and make amends to make the things right.

And I am sorry, but I don't believe in the "let it slide" or "cut them some slack" mentality. People should be held responsible and accountable for their actions and for their mistakes.

It's not even about money in the first place, but about standing up for (what I consider to be) my rights. Also, I'm not requesting this (just) for myself, but for everyone else that might have been affected.

 1) Then stop complaining on the fourms about it

2) They took responsibility and fixed their typo

3) Not everything is that serious.

4) Your rights are the EULA you agreed to when you started playing the game. No ones forcing you to stay here.

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On 10/30/2022 at 3:24 AM, Bloodreina said:

@Keenan

Talking about deceiving tactics (intended or not) any plans to also fix this one (and eventually reimburse us too) where you're actually straight up lying us saying on the 10 silver package that it is ~1.1 eur per silver, when in fact it's ~1.3 euro per silver? I know that I personally fall for that one. And yeah, I could have made the math, but I just trusted that you wouldn't straight up lying about it.

 

 🤣 What a child.

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1 hour ago, BattleWall said:

4) Your rights are the EULA you agreed to when you started playing the game. No ones forcing you to stay here.


When game mechanics are involved, that is entirely true. When real life currency is involved I have way more rights than that. And God d*** it I'll make sure I'll use them all.

I said I won't discuss what's legal or what's illegal, but let the lawyers and legal authorities deal with this and that's exactly what I'll do. I never said that I won't discuss the issue at all.

But yeah, probably it's about time to stop doing that too and follow Keenan's advice and let the legal actions follow their course.

Over'n'out
 

Edited by Bloodreina

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On 10/29/2022 at 9:05 PM, Keenan said:

It was recently brought to our attention

 

LOL, as far as I remember I personally reported that nonsense a year if not more ago.. No one even acknowledged it, no one cared.. Anyways, props for fixing it finally, more than anything it was looking awful and disrespectful.

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On 10/31/2022 at 4:08 PM, Keenan said:

I don't use Steam much at all, so I never noticed this. Personally, I don't feel this is lying nor of the same caliber of the error fixed in the non-Steam shop. The information is misleading, but I will have that corrected. The stated price will not change in this instance, however.


One last thing... since quite a few people pointed that I make a big fuss out of nothing, that it was a honest mistake without any bad intentions behind it, that the devs were not aware of and that as soon as I pointed they out they fixed it ASAP in the first patch.

Well, guess what, this was a known issue since more than two years ago and despite the product manager admitting that it was misleading, they didn't bothered to fix it 'till I made a big fuss of it. One has all reasons to wonder why...


- It was first reported on August 12th, 2020 in the proper section of forums: 



- It was acknowledged and added to the list in the same day by Alectrys, who was an official at that time


- It was brought back on topic, one year later, on August 28th, 2021:



- Then again, almost one more year later, on July 12th and August 7th this year:



So, despite that being a misleading information (as the product manager admitted in this very thread) and being a known problem (repeated and acknowledged more than two years ago and re-reported on the proper channels more than once) it was never fixed 'till now.


Now sure, you, fanboys, can all blame me for daring to challenge your favorite developer for a "minor inconvenience", but, really, it's just another example of the level of professionalism and respect that they show to their paying customers.

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I'm locking this thread.

 

The issues that were reported have been fixed. My apologies for the time it took to fix them, what is important is that they are fixed now and we will maintain higher scrutiny over changes that impact either shop in the future.

 

Thank you.

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