My last Hurrah by Shamank

[Sage 56]

Hi my toon name is Shamank and i have been playing off and on since 2009

I regretfully am here to announce my retirement from the game due to an ugly incident on forum recently.  I was selling a supreme bearded huge axe and was watching the auction live because i was worried someone might put  a bid on after the auction finished.  Someone posted at 34th minute so sniper period was till 4v mins past.  My own record and post revealed (27-18=9) which lined up with my clock to at 9 mins past. 9-4 =5 so that was a full 5 minutes after the auction ended at 4 past as per sniper protection.  Everyone ignored my evidence and actual eyewitness and railroaded my post. Erhid claimed he posted at the 28th minute, i was watching and thats an outright lie.  He posted a full 5 minutes after the sniper period so i am confident i made the right decision to award auction to previous bid, as stated i can not accept bids that are late, its 30 min sniper protection and not 35 mins !

To all the staff and general community, i have loved playing and developing with you over the years, thanks for many good memories and times , ty Staff been great.

 

I know i should not make decision lightly but i can not put up with Erhid lies and cheat and they way forum people railroaded my post without even considering my evidence is disgusting.

 

Goodbye my friends and stay safe o/

[Gumbert 45]

Take a break, take it easy, go have fun and stay safe.

I wish you well on your future endeavors,

You'll be missed.

[gnomegates 1,429]

I went and looked over the auction that you posted, it would seem that everyone was pleasant and simply trying to explain how sniper protection works. Unless there was some communication going on behind the scenes, I don't see anything in that auction post that would come close to causing someone to make a judgement to leave the game after almost 14 years. 

 

There were no lies being spread, and the the post was not railroaded, it was simply other people trying to explain how sniper protection is typically used. Those posts all came after the auction had ended, so those posts had nothing to do with the outcome of the auction. So again unless there was some behind the scenes communication happening, I'm confused by this decision. There seems to be some miscommunication happening.

 

What I see

 

Vikingo bid

Posted Sunday at xx:18 AM

31s

 

Erhid bid

Posted Sunday at xx:48 AM

32s

 

The bid by Vikingo would have extended the auction 30 mins.

Erhid bid 30 mins later, now one can look at that and say that the bid was on time, or it was late, that is up to the seller to decide in this case. These instances have happened in the past, and I've seen it go both ways.

 

In the case that you would have accepted Erhid bid of 32s, that would have extended the auction another 30 mins, giving Vikingo or anyone else 30 mins to make another bid. If they choose to do so, then that would have extended it another 30 mins. There have been many auctions that have been extended 10+ hours because of the high interest of the item being auction.

 

 

I hate to see anyone leave the game, I hope you take a few days to relax and think things over and will reconsider leaving the game. 

 

Regardless, good luck in all you do, I wish you the best!

 

Happy Wurming!

Edited October 12, 2022 by gnomegates

[Zachariah 736]

Shamank, very sad to see you go, especially for something that, from an outside perspective, seems very trivial. But it is not my place to tell you how to feel or to deny your trauma. I have considered you a very close friend for the recent few years. I enjoyed imping beside you at impalongs slaving away in front of the weapons forge. I also enjoyed the run ins in GLFreedom chat. Sad to see you go and I hope you take a few days to cool down and I hope you decide to stay so we can keep up the fun, I was looking forward to seeing you at the next impalong in December. I'm always here if you need to talk. 

[Stinboi 363]

Bid was placed 01:18 PM and the next was 01:48 PM(my time), so as i look at it would be second deciding if this was within the 30min or not, just pointing this out to give my support that i think you made the right decision.

 

Its sad if this is what goin to make you leave the game.

The decision seems hasted and i hope you reconsider when you have given it some more thoughts.

 

 

[Ekcin 2,406]

Personally, I do not only regret that you are leaving (think about, you will be missed), but honestly do not see the point.

 

An auction is absolutely dominated by the auctionator. If you decide to abort an auction, it is gone. If you decide to exclude a bidder, s/he is out. If you decide to completely ignore the auction outcome, so will it be. And if something is in doubt, best would be to repeat the auction. Better a week wasted than a life in Wurm gone.

 

Of course, deliberately messing with auctions will undermine the reputation of an auctionator, so it is an unwise move and overwhelmingly frowned upon. In this case, did you consider possible DST changes over the course of the auction? They may have caused inconsistencies without anyone lying or cheating, and honestly, I am inclined to believe Erhid as much as you.

 

So sleep a night or two over the decision.

[Milkdrop 278]

We never spoke much and normally I would not post in a thread like this to begin with... but I appreciated you getting horses at rifts for people who are summoned in and you always came across as a generally helpful guy and community member. (coming from a hermit who is more observing than acting)

 

As others said, sleep over it, don't jump the gun, you have been here for so long.

You know the addiction will get the better of you again in the future and then you will be like "ah damn... all those weeks wasted because of a dumb thing that I could have been doing something meaningful in wurm" - specially now with the holidays approaching which are always fun with events and new toys you don't want to miss.

(oof now I sound like a marketing person 🙃)

 

Don't punish yourself over something like this, it's not worth it.

Don't look back, look forward to the fun you can still have here, I am sure that outweighs one bad event by far.

[Toeol 185]

It certainly is unfortunate to see things turn out this way, 

 

I myself read through the auction thread and was going to post something but it was locked out I think this has all boiled down to a misunderstanding of how the sniper protection worked, and then a hasty decision made while a disagreement was brewing.

I personally could not see any hate or accusations in the thread, and would feel it would be a shame to throw away such a long time playing and enjoying Wurm over an issue such as this, 

 

a lot has been written about the timings, but I thought a visual might help explain.

please note - all times in this timeline uses the forums time, which has already been pointed out does not take seconds into account, so it is up to the auctioneer to decide who won, 

-disclaimer-

I am in no way affiliated with either party



In my humble opinion, the debate would be to whether Erhids borderline 32s bid was accepted or not, as the forum posts say it was posted exactly 30 minutes after VIkingo, whereas internal data which shows seconds states that due to rounding he was 2 minutes within the timer,  from that point of view, the Auction was still live when the winner was announced, and indeed was subject to a fresh 30 minute protection as a bid of 35S had been made, 

 

IO understand decisions were made in the heat of the moment, but perhaps the better idea would have been to Null / pause the auction altogether while making sure people understood / were happy with the outcome,. 

 

Again, it would be a shame to loose players over things like this, auctions are run at the auctioneers digressions, we are all human, 

 

[HawkHawk 299]

Presumably your on SFI and for that reason I can't say I've had any interaction with you in game but its still sad to see you are leaving over this. I appreciate the situation is fustrating but if you have an issue with individuals maybe choose to avoid those individuals instead.

 

I mean no disrespect to anyone involved in the scenario here, I'm also putting forward no opinion on the scenario itself as I've never really bothered to understand Auctions all that well.

 

All I'm saying is there appears to be plenty of people in the posts above who say they will miss you, Its just a shame to let go of so many years of work and positive interactions because of a few negative ones with people you may be able to avoid in the future, if you really do not want to talk to them anymore.

 

 

Edited October 12, 2022 by HawkHawk

[kochinac 1,395]

really dumb way and reason to leave the game, but whatever... it was your auction, you're in charge of how to handle it... from brief overlook i think you overcomplicated situation with auction for no reason, could've have just accept the bid if it was 30 mins from last bid by time on forum post although i admit it's shitty move to wait for last second to bid from side of buyer, prolong snipe and go away with less stress

[Coach 196]

Thank you for showing people how auction works. Sure wurm has its own way to bring u back in the future.

[Spolmit 621]

Sage, I can understand your disappointment when something like the auction causes you great angst as you describe in your post, however, I would suggest the following before you make your final decision:

 

a) Time can be a great healer and hopefully as time passes you may reconsider your decision.

 

b) People can make mistakes and say things that are hurtful in ways that they may not realise- everybody is different in the way that they cope with or react to criticism and many do not realise this in their interactions.

 

c) You, like me have played and hopefully enjoyed Wurm for well over a decade. I would suggest that you would not have played this fantastic game for so long if it did not give you enjoyment. One bad moment in that time is surely great testament to the overall quality of our player-base and will hopefully encourage you to keep on playing.

 

d) You obviously love the community and the way that Wurm has developed over your play-time. You are also well respected by many in the community and I hope that this gives you strength and encouragement to change your decision.

 

If you decide to stay that would be great and welcomed by many.  If you ultimately decide not to stay, then I wish you all the very best in whatever you do.

[Erhid 94]

I said on the auction that its not a big deal, wished you good luck and have a nice day, my friend. You did the same, I thought its all good. Anyone who can check this auction topic, see that my point wasnt to buy this item no matter what, but only show how sniper protection works, which I thought you dont understand. Thats all. If I was mistaken, its okay lol, its not even a big deal and I dont need that item, Im saying this again. Its only few pixels to me. The auction timer is sometimes broken, showing ppl bad time, so yeah. I never lied at any situation. Timer was showing me that time, and thats why I just bidded the auction. I just dont understand your decision about leaving and I think its overreacting, but if you get all this like the reason to leave the game, then Im sorry, I apologize a lot. But I will say it again - trust me, its not a big deal. Oh, and worth to mention that I was kind and respectfull in this discussion, so I thought we're totally fine after all. Only like two ppl came by and checked the timers (few in this topic too), so I dont see this whole community railoaded your post and evidences. Even Vikingo (winner of the auction) posted on your forum profile that hes trying to contact me, bcoz he thinks that I won it. I never thought it could be such a big deal, like really. What I can suggest is that I can cook you some sweet in game, and send it over to Shamank. Dont leave the game, at least not for that reason

Edited October 12, 2022 by Erhid

[Muse 2,220]

As someone who has held fair amount of auctions, I can confirm this type of thing happens to everyone eventually.  It's stressful, it's confusing but it just shows the system isn't perfect, and we're all human.  I even asked staff once about one of my auctions that went pear shaped, and they pretty much said that as the person who started the auction it was my decision in the end.

 

I find in such cases, that if the bid is late, or in dispute, you don't have to accept the bid if you decide not to, everyone comes to understand this eventually, and it's only silvers.  

 

It's not worth leaving the game over - the real value in this game is the good players like you ShamanK - not the items, they are just pixels, as others have mentioned.

 

Come back before you are missed terribly!  

[Archaed 2,280]

Remember, nothing in auctions is binding, you have the right to decide who wins. 

[Donutkebab 41]

Man I knew that auctions with an outcome like this are annoying to people, but never would have thought it would make people quit the game.

 

Even more surprising are the accusations in a "goodbye post". Very classy, really.

As one of those "derailers", I simply post the facts again, what you did or do with the information is your thing, but I won't let someone pretend that I ignored your "evidence".

You had the power, you closed the auction which was completely fine and done.

 

But you still make a drama out of it and post it in your goodbye post. Using other people's attention(and sympathy etc.), bad mouthing and even NAMECALLING on the forums, where reputation matters is a bad thing to do, especially when you can not back up your accusations AT ALL. The forums has the facts and details, if you are unsure about it or don't know what they mean, just ask and talk with people....

 

A bit of details on how to get actual evidence, details or data from the posts (with post times in seconds):

Spoiler

 

shown in the hidden date of the post time:

(right click -> inspect element, in chrome, edge and firefox browser it at least shows the details)

example of the "datetime" information:

 

from the problematic thread and bid:

Vikingo's 31s post time: 

2022-10-09T11:18:28Z

 

Erhid's 32s post time:

2022-10-09T11:48:25Z

 

So it was still within the sniper protection by a few seconds and absolutely not by minutes. Lack of seconds can be a problem, a big one if you don't know about the hidden information for post times.

 

 I made a suggestion because I saw it happen a couple of times(lack of seconds):

But the forums sadly can't show it directly in the current version, so it got closed.

 

 

Nevertheless, hope you will calm down, it really did not happen much and you seem to be the only one having a huge problem with it, so hey, take a break, forget about it and enjoy wurm however you like. Because there are sadly no games like wurm anywhere.

 

Edited October 15, 2022 by Donutkebab

[Jeston 316]

You will be back, they always come back

[Johnston3 73]

On 10/11/2022 at 11:57 PM, Sage said:

Hi my toon name is Shamank and i have been playing off and on since 2009

I regretfully am here to announce my retirement from the game due to an ugly incident on forum recently.  I was selling a supreme bearded huge axe and was watching the auction live because i was worried someone might put  a bid on after the auction finished.  Someone posted at 34th minute so sniper period was till 4v mins past.  My own record and post revealed (27-18=9) which lined up with my clock to at 9 mins past. 9-4 =5 so that was a full 5 minutes after the auction ended at 4 past as per sniper protection.  Everyone ignored my evidence and actual eyewitness and railroaded my post. Erhid claimed he posted at the 28th minute, i was watching and thats an outright lie.  He posted a full 5 minutes after the sniper period so i am confident i made the right decision to award auction to previous bid, as stated i can not accept bids that are late, its 30 min sniper protection and not 35 mins !

To all the staff and general community, i have loved playing and developing with you over the years, thanks for many good memories and times , ty Staff been great.

 

I know i should not make decision lightly but i can not put up with Erhid lies and cheat and they way forum people railroaded my post without even considering my evidence is disgusting.

 

Goodbye my friends and stay safe o/

You should just pretend the guy who lost the auction is a bill collector and not even talk to him.  It helps greatly in life to not give credance to a lot of the complaints that come up, judicially, socially, and otherwise.  It took me a good 25 years to figure that out.

Wurm's small but it's still an MMO.  I feel sorry on other people's behalf when I read stuff like this.  When people sell their stuff like this they often don't consider that they might change their mind.  Hope you decide to come back.

[Sage 56]

CLOSE please, thnx for your kind thoughts

Shamank o/

 

[Tilda 651]

Closed at OP request.