FallenKnight

Bring back message when the uniques respawn

Recommended Posts

The spawn should still be unannounced as it keeps the random chance of stumbling across getting chased down by a unique, and obscures the exact spawn time. The announcement should come at a random point, some time after the spawn. Anywhere from 2-7 days after?

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, Adnurak said:

If you have evidence that unique hunters are using an exploit to determine the time or location of spawns I'm sure the team would love to see it. Otherwise this is something that lives entirely in your imagination. Was someone actually banned for that? If someone was banned for that then is not the issue solved? If you know someone else is using some exploit then you should report them instead of making allusions to it on the forums. As far as I can tell from your post this is something you believe other people are doing and you are asserting it without evidence. That's not an argument.

In meanwhile, Literally nothing is done to prevent this in future, just players get banned. It's not that crazy or paranoid to assume this is still happening or can happen.

So far i can tell from your post, you are self entitled hard worker and no one else is putting effort.

So you are against everyone to have the same information and tools avalible and support the current status quo? Doesn't sounds like fair or healthy competition to me.

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Adnurak said:

If you have evidence that unique hunters are using an exploit to determine the time or location of spawns I'm sure the team would love to see it. Otherwise this is something that lives entirely in your imagination. Was someone actually banned for that? If someone was banned for that then is not the issue solved? If you know someone else is using some exploit then you should report them instead of making allusions to it on the forums. As far as I can tell from your post this is something you believe other people are doing and you are asserting it without evidence. That's not an argument.

Team has been handed evidence time and time again over the years by multiple groups of people about the state of local maps/map dumping tools that reveal an entire servers data and so on nothing really comes from it that really prevents these things from working and with places like fiverr being a thing creating a simple program that does exactly that if you know where to look for would cost you 80-300 bucks and as it stands short of you being an idiot and b lining towards any unique you find there is no real way to detect if someone is using this software short of their friends reporting that person(which come on most wont do that sadly enough)
Do people get banned for it? Yes, does that stop others from doing teh same thing? No
On chaos there were kingdoms that lived and died by their map hacks and their other programs and exploits if you find a big enough group of players in wurm chances are someone is using a simple bot or a mapping tool or a complex bot ya we report them when we catch them but it is far to easy to create such a thing in this day and age(hence my issue against trying to make mechanics "anti bot" like as it makes it easier for bots and harder for humans)
As for your last point evidence has been handed in multiple times and developers of said tools are still playing today their accounts are still around why? Because they don't use the tools they make they are smart about it and wurm staff cant really ban you for you making a tool that you never use yourself according to current rules(not like they could enforce it as i could just claim that @Pandylynn made a live map and throw the gm team a doctored message with a download link to a once publicly available version with some changes to it and then what)

Point is botting and mapping tools are a thing in wurm they have been there since the start of the game and have almost always been 1 step ahead of any kind of rule or system or anything the devs have come up with and will remain so(just check osrs and rs3 their million dollar battle) its better that a game's mechanics are enjoyable and fun for a player so that there is not such a big need to have such tools around then to have them.

And with that mindset it is better to have unique's for now be visible when they spawn by event message and twitter post until the time comes where their spawning mechanics are redesigned to be more fair towards players(if that is something the devs want to take on)
The main reason is as it stands someone with a live map or knowledge on spawning mechanics is at an advantage over anyone else a unfair advantage because player 1 using external tools player 2 playing fair
Yes showing the message wont make them not use it but it does mean that we now know when they spawn and thus we can actively go out to hunt and for those local on their server they often have a few min head start vs those of other servers so the chance for public is potentially higher

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Tor said:

In meanwhile, Literally nothing is done to prevent this in future, just players get banned. It's not that crazy or paranoid to assume this is still happening or can happen.

So far i can tell from your post, you are self entitled hard worker and no one else is putting effort.

So you are against everyone to have the same information and tools avalible and support the current status quo? Doesn't sounds like fair or healthy competition to me.

 

If this is the case, then the staff became aware of what people were doing and put a stop to it. I don't see the issue.

Personally I do very little searching for uniques. I do not own a drake or scale set and I'm not basing my argument on my own personal feelings or level of investment in hunting. It's a straightforward logical argument. Your argument is based off the automatic assumption that people are cheating and making insinuations about the character of people you disagree with. You've yet to make any argument based on evidence.

 

 

4 minutes ago, wipeout said:

snip

If this is the case, adding a spawn message is not going to do anything to fix the problem. The root cause of your complaint is something else entirely that I agree should be addressed, but not like this.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Adnurak said:

 It's a straightforward logical argument. Your argument is based off the automatic assumption that people are cheating and making insinuations about the character of people you disagree with. You've yet to make any argument based on evidence.

 

My guess is as good as yours. furthuremore, there's evidence.

Edited by Tor

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Tor said:

 

My guess is as good as yours. furthuremore, there's evidence.

There's evidence of this occurring in the past. There is no current evidence that says someone is doing this now, and there is no argument to say that adding a spawn message will help counteract cheating if it is occurring. This is the wrong approach. Adding a spawn message actually makes it far easier for organised groups with tools such as this to grab more uniques. You are too settled on this idea because you're concerned about cheaters and you're not considering its drawbacks.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Adnurak said:

There's evidence of this occurring in the past. There is no current evidence that says someone is doing this now, and there is no argument to say that adding a spawn message will help counteract cheating if it is occurring. This is the wrong approach. Adding a spawn message actually makes it far easier for organised groups with tools such as this to grab more uniques. You are too settled on this idea because you're concerned about cheaters and you're not considering its drawbacks.

 

And while it was occuring in the past there wasn't actually evidence, just like now. Adding a spawn massage makes literally everyone aware unlike the current situation that only makes players with the info aware. which is against the spirit of fair game and equal opporutny,

 

Did you read what wipeout have posted?

 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, Adnurak said:

Adding a spawn message actually makes it far easier for organised groups with tools such as this to grab more uniques.

 

Easier for them to get unique while no one else know it's spawned or while every player know it spawned?

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I read that all and i appreciate knowing the history. That’s interesting. But also I have a feeling you misunderstand me — I mean that if you look at numbers only, and you don’t look at names for alts or alliance members then perhaps you OVERestimate the amount of public slaying… that perhaps some of the slaying with 30 or 40 are actually private alliance and group alts or something. Which you can feel however you want, good or bad, I was just pointing out numbers alone aren’t completely accurate xD Basically, probably even LESS public slaying than you estimate and probably MORE “private” slaying than you estimate still. Sorry if that wasn’t clear. 

 

And sure you can tell everyone in the world When to look, but what about Where. Well like someone said before some people spent lots of time to figure out the workings and mechanics right? Or it seems like now the topic shifted to cheaters or hackers or something, well hope those are all banned and fixed, well in any case… Hence @Archaed’s suggestion about overhauling the mechanics themselves. * So that spawns are more truly random.*

 

I mean I can’t predict it. Maybe another bandaid on top of the bandaid. Or rip off the old bandaid might work this time, I suppose. If your goal is to supposedly level the playing field I personally don’t think a birth announcement will help as significantly as you think. But unless you just base it off history, then anything further it’s all speculation. You think one thing and I think another, ehh.

Edited by Lovelie
clarity
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Tor said:

 

And while it was occuring in the past there wasn't actually evidence, just like now. Adding a spawn massage makes literally everyone aware unlike the current situation that only makes players with the info aware. which is against the spirit of fair game and equal opporutny,

 

Did you read what wipeout have posted?

 

You can't make decisions based on something you imagine is happening but have no evidence for, as soon as evidence presents itself that somebody is using exploits then action should be taken against them based on that evidence. Until that point, there is no sense in enacting changes to the game that make it more likely that only the most prepared players will get a chance at finding uniques. Currently the lack of information available to everyone makes it possible and probable that less experienced players will find and have a chance at slaying uniques. Having a spawn message just means everyone with penning experience will immediately mobilise and it will be caught almost exclusively by those people. Universal access to spawn information actually does not lead to equal ability or likelihood to pen and slay uniques. I think this conversation would benefit from less of a focus on cheating as there are drawbacks to this suggestion regardless of the existence of cheaters. Cheating should be dealt with with anti-cheating measures, not changes to the game that will actually produce results contrary to the stated intention.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Adnurak said:

You can't make decisions based on something you imagine is happening but have no evidence for, as soon as evidence presents itself that somebody is using exploits then action should be taken against them based on that evidence. Until that point, there is no sense in enacting changes to the game that make it more likely that only the most prepared players will get a chance at finding uniques. Currently the lack of information available to everyone makes it possible and probable that less experienced players will find and have a chance at slaying uniques. Having a spawn message just means everyone with penning experience will immediately mobilise and it will be caught almost exclusively by those people. Universal access to spawn information actually does not lead to equal ability or likelihood to pen and slay uniques. I think this conversation would benefit from less of a focus on cheating as there are drawbacks to this suggestion regardless of the existence of cheaters. Cheating should be dealt with with anti-cheating measures, not changes to the game that will actually produce results contrary to the stated intention.

 

Sure thing buddy, Lets talk about how to make it easier for the cheaters then and making it blind date for everyone else

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

  y’all getting way too heated for a difference of opinion nevermind i am out  xd

 

I think if there’s gonna be any solution or change it’s much deeper than just the birth announcement, that’s all 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
27 minutes ago, Tor said:

 

And while it was occuring in the past there wasn't actually evidence, just like now. Adding a spawn massage makes literally everyone aware unlike the current situation that only makes players with the info aware. which is against the spirit of fair game and equal opporutny,

 

Did you read what wipeout have posted?

 

For a start, making this info drop isn't putting everyone on the same playing field. Information on spawn mechanics has been widely shared and posted and can be found by anyone with a true investment in finding them. Removing the spawn message was a good move because despite your illusion of bringing it back making it an even playing field, it merely benefitted those who were online at a time or metagamed Twitter to alert them when the spawn message is posted. You're not fixing any issue by bringing back spawn announcements, you're merely trading them for other issues.

 

 

If you truly have an interest or investment in making more dragons/drakes/whatever public, then be the change you want to see. Go and search, make a team or join one with that goal in mind, learn the mechanics and go be the hero you want to be. The best course of action is exactly that, action.

 

  

6 minutes ago, Lovelie said:

  y’all getting way too heated for a difference of opinion nevermind i am out  xd

 

To the new cardinals fans : r/AZCardinals

 

Welcome to Unique threads, everyone has a difference of opinion and talking logically goes out of the window because people with no active search/pen experience chip in to suggest ideas like making them like rifts.

  

26 minutes ago, Tor said:

Did you read what wipeout have posted?

 

I'm going to touch on this vaguely. The situation behind those bans isn't as crystal clear as you'd like to make out, and nobody other than staff truly knows or understands what allowed them to do it. I've heard things about it, and it's nothing at all like you want to word it. From what I do know based on the info given, it still nullifies your spawn message because while you're searching blindly, those using those exploits aren't quite so blind.

Edited by Madnath
  • Like 2
  • Cat 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, wipeout said:

(wurm sends far to much data to the client and lets the client ask for far too much)

Ultimately this is the only thing that matters, this is something that can actually be fixed. It's a valid complaint but not in any way related to the thread's topic.

2 minutes ago, Tor said:

 

Sure thing buddy, Lets talk about how to make it easier for the cheaters then and making it blind date for everyone else

It's two completely different topics. Players should be blind to unique spawns. Cheaters should be banned and cheating methods be closed off. They're not related. Giving everyone access to more information as a way to "level the playing field" with cheaters is missing the point that people shouldn't have that information in the first place.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Madnath said:

 

For a start, making this info drop isn't putting everyone on the same playing field. Information on spawn mechanics has been widely shared and posted and can be found by anyone with a true investment in finding them. Removing the spawn message was a good move because despite your illusion of bringing it back making it an even playing field, it merely benefitted those who were online at a time or metagamed Twitter to alert them when the spawn message is posted. You're not fixing any issue by bringing back spawn announcements, you're merely trading them for other issues.

 

 

If you truly have an interest or investment in making more dragons/drakes/whatever public, then be the change you want to see. Go and search, make a team or join one with that goal in mind, learn the mechanics and go be the hero you want to be. The best course of action is exactly that, action.

 

This is the way to start if you are truly interested in unique hunting. Using the methods in Stanlee's post, I've found 4/7 of the last uniques on Celebration, two of which were made public. It takes map knowledge and dedication to search every few hours to find these things, so it isn't easy.

 

Making the notices appear on spawn again would just make it way easier for people who know the common spawn spots to find them. I don't think that makes it fair at all.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Tor said:

 

Good luck advertising wurm with this

The notion of everything in Wurm being the result of a player's hard work and investment is the exact appeal of the game. It's literally the thing that makes Wurm unique and interesting. I don't know what your goal is in participating in this thread anymore.

You can't just invent new goals that everyone else has to meet with every new post.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Adnurak said:

The notion of everything in Wurm being the result of a player's hard work and investment is the exact appeal of the game. It's literally the thing that makes Wurm unique and interesting. I don't know what your goal is in participating in this thread anymore.

You can't just invent new goals that everyone else has to meet with every new post.

 

What's your problem with me exactly? I am aware i was talking about controversal issues no one wanna talk about because of the cancel culture on this forum. Now, feel free to stress less about me and block me or ignore me, I talking exactly what i want to talk about and you feel free to do so.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Tor said:

 

What's your problem with me exactly? I am aware i was talking about controversal issues no one wanna talk about because of the cancel culture on this forum. Now, feel free to stress less about me and block me or ignore me, I talking exactly what i want to talk about and you feel free to do so.

I have no problem with you. I have a problem with what you say in your posts, as I have outlined in my posts. I honestly don't know anything about you outside of this thread. This is not a personal issue to me, if you are experiencing anxiety as a result of arguments on a web forum I can only suggest you take a break from the computer.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I love a good Unique mechanic change thread! :)

 

In most games, there are top rewards that only a few very dedicated people achieve.  The people willing to put in the time and effort to make it happen.  Wurm is hardly different in that respect.  However, our unique hunts still leave a lot to be desired.  It is very hard for the average player to get in the action.  First, you have to learn the mechanics and not everyone is willing to share.  Second, you have to build a team of ~20 strong players (less once you dial in your strategy) and the average player doesn't know that many other players, let alone ones that are strong enough and online enough to form a slayer group.  THis is a HUGE barrier for the average player and makes it near impossible for them to participate in anything but a public slaying.

 

Event messages on or off will NOT make much difference.  When on, it just means the hunt groups will be catching them even faster, because they are the ones that know where to look, can handle the capture and make the kill.

 

Magaric's idea of turning them into a "Rift like" public event is one of the better solutions I've seen, but potentially makes for a lot of dev work to set it up.

 

Without making a huge code changes, I think we could fix most of the issue by simply making hide/scale drops a fixed amount per premium player that is in local.  Make it small.  Small enough that it takes ages to accumulate enough for any single player to get enough for a full armor set, so the best option is to go public for maximum scale/hide accumulation per kill.  Lots of trading will happen, allowing new players to profit and others to complete their sets of armor.

 

But the hunt groups may still choose to go private, to keep their existing sets massively inflated in value right?  What does a scale set go for in NFI right now?  12-15 gold?  If we still had RMT, that is the price of a decent gaming laptop.  Quite ridiculous.  So to discourage that, make one more small change: Unique's become invulnerable with less than 80 in local for dragons.  Not sure that is really required as almost all non-dragon uniques go public.  The hunt groups could hoard those to elevate potion prices, but they aren't.  They aren't evil, just opportunistic and they probably would be happy to do public on dragons, once the massive hide/scale drop advantages went away.

 

We do need more change to eliminate the exclusive nature of these hunts.

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
45 minutes ago, Tor said:

 I am aware i was talking about controversal issues no one wanna talk about because of the cancel culture on this forum.

the-princess-bride-inigo-montoya.gif

 

  • Like 3
  • Cat 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I agree to Madnath et alii that making unique spawns public again does not remediate anything. What wipeout writes is interesting and a bit disappointing, first that there are such ample opportunities to hack the game, second that there obviously are people around doing extensive data mining, even packet analysis for the ridiculous goal to spot a unique.

 

What I found interesting was the statistics posted earlier by wipeout

Quote

Since start of this year 203 uniques have been slain of those
170 had more then 10
114 had more then 15
74 had more then 20
44 had more then 40
26 had more then 80

 

Note that a slaying with >80 participants is certainly a public one, while among the 18 with >40 there are not few ad hoc slayings, so partially public ones. It means that we have in excess of 3 public slayings per month, mainly certainly on weekends, and most by Stanlee and his team.

 

I think that much more public slayings are neither likely nor really desirable. Private slayings have their place and their attraction, and should have so. If there are technical means to restrict unique finding by data mining and hacking, the devs certainly should think about designing and implementing them, also to refine the instruments to catch abusers. And it should be clear, and made clear to everybody that compromising the unique hunt is not a petty thing, and will lead to consequences.

Edited by Ekcin
typo

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
30 minutes ago, Wurmhole said:

We do need more change to eliminate the exclusive nature of these hunts.

Why? The people who do the work of finding and capturing the uniques (which is the actual hard part) dictate how the slaying goes down and how the loot is split. We don't need a top-down mandate for who gets to benefit from other people's efforts. No-one is going around telling blacksmiths to offer imps at X price, so why do we need to tell hunting groups how to manage their affairs? If I find an utmost silver vein do I have to share it with the rest of the server? This is a non-issue.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Quick question for those reason past this, as I'm curious about whether it's the opportunity to find your own, or the private sayings that bother you. 

 

Do you want opportunities to find unique yourself, or do you want more public sayings to attend? 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ah, 2019, a simpler time when rumours of uniques flew openly, and those loose lips didn't even sink ships.

Or did they?

 

Back in 2019 and before, those messages were the klaxon horn of action to those involved in uniques. The alarm sounded, and off you went to find the thing! But given the availability of those announcements, well, everyone with an eye to uniques was soon arriving. Oh yeah, you thought it's bad now? Try finding it when every team is there looking too. Quite infamously one player (not calling you out babe) almost single-handedly was netting a crazy amount of uniques on every server using these alerts. 

 

Nowadays searching other servers is a dodgy prospect - there's good odds you're going somewhere that doesn't even have a unique and coming home empty handed. This serves to make uniques much more of a surprise that newer players can run across, than something that every unique group will act to lock down as soon as possible. I'd honestly be surprised to be able to do public slayings on other servers following this change - doubtless nowhere near the number of people shocked to discover they've been followed by a dragon trying to take their newbie cart around.

 

In regards to the talk of cheating, even if we take the claims that cheating is rampant at face value, returning to this simply tells the cheaters which server to check, because they'd be faster than legit players. They're going to get more of them with this!

 

Worst of all was that these alerts served to create a time of maximum toxicity. Everyone scurrying for this one goal that isn't going to be shared? You know that's going to concentrate and amplify the toxicity that already exists. The number of disputed uniques would doubtless shoot up, and the GMs really don't want that.

 

tl;dr if I was looking to go private and efficiently secure as many uniques as possible with no regards to toxicity, this is exactly the system I'd want back

cancel cultured with facts and logic

  • Like 12
  • Cat 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now