FallenKnight

Bring back message when the uniques respawn

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Why we dont have back messege when the uniques spawning on server? it will make more random ppl able to search for them than the same ppl doing that everytime penning all uniques for private benefits ;) 

 

 

 

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So far as i know they were taken away because "oh no 1 group is complaining that group 2 is getting all the uniques on every server oh you know what lets disable this message" few days later "well that didn't work, okay lets add a rule where if you show up in local of a unique slaying and you are asked to leave and you dont its an offense that would stop them right? right?" "wait it still didn't well lets go make it so that they cant be found that will fix it right? no one uses map hacks in our game right?" little did they know none of those things helped at all

The message was nice because it meant a break from doing whatever we are doing to get on our horse and roam around and explore to try and find it and then deed it it was fun to do now its more over "oh death tabs popped oh random newbie died to a dragon and he doesnt know where he died oh well" or "hey guys i found a dragon its at x" or "we know when unique's spawn on what server because we mapped out so many unique spawn windows that we roughly know when so lets go there and roam around" or "so you know that map hack that we have ya lets go check x server"

I am all for a public message when they show up as it made a lot of people want to go out and try to find it it was fun to do i miss it and hunting for the sake of hunting is boring honestly you run to a animal you tab to yt hear death sound move on to next mob and aimlessly running around is nice if you are on a server you havent been on but on a server you know in and out its no fun

So +100 from me it was a stupid knee jerk decision to get rid of it anyway

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The main issue I see is that they were removed to encourage more random chance, the announcement simply meant geared groups knew when to hunt, and now they don't. 

 

Problem is, the spawning mechanics weren't changed, it's still the same frequency/times, so it's just those who know the rough mechanics. 

 

Kind of like having a test that's open book vs one that's not, you just have to memorise the formula rather than be given it. 

 

I'd rather see the spawn mechanics revamped to be more random, with hints given out if it's not been found in x time. If groups don't know WHEN to search, it'll encourage more random roaming and give others opportunities at any time. 

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No, it was removed for a reason, people leaving alts or get tipped by "spies/noobs" and same groups just go on the spot when event happens and swipe all loot.

Just drama and starving the community from content, the game was in worse place with this, it's still in bad spot as almost nothing changed by just removing this and having polite unique rules from enki.

 

Game desperately needs a more fair way to hunt these but this is not it, there needs to be some sort of big event for everybody or most of the players, rewarding alts less or equally is another topic.. handling performance also, but leaving best armor to be farmed by 5-10 people in 1-3 groups is just stupid to be left to happen. It's only gating content from the rest of the player base.

 

Timing or chasing these as they spawn and somebody see this message is not good mechanic.

There are 5-10 threads a year about unique fix and improvement, but nothing ever gets fixed for the better.

Tiny cosmetic changes weren't solution; what makes situation better is same groups pausing the hunts.

Big change happened when cheaters exploited the game and sponged every unique from these "hunters" who also abuse the times for respawning and possible places to spawn them.. all learned from WU code..

So.. then "hunters" had exactly same experience normal player have - no uniques exist when somebody abuses knowledge and there's no fair gameplay for the rest.

 

That is not gameplay, it's metagaming and exploiting knowledge you shouldn't have at all. (1 more reason to rework the drama generator)

 

no -1

 

 

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Just make uniques like rifts a giant beam leading to them can setup loot like old rift system just randomly hand it out when the animal dies. if any existed

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9 minutes ago, Archaed said:

The main issue I see is that they were removed to encourage more random chance, the announcement simply meant geared groups knew when to hunt, and now they don't. 

But they do though that's the sad part before everyone knew but now its those who spend their time digging through WU code or are running external tools be it map dumps or excel sheets based on historical data to figure out spawn rate(Yes there is one floating around in the wild and its a glorious little spreadsheet)

 

 

5 minutes ago, Finnn said:

No, it was removed for a reason, people leaving alts or get tipped by "spies/noobs" and same groups just go on the spot when event happens and swipe all loot.

Just drama and starving the community from content, the game was in worse place with this, it's still in bad spot as almost nothing changed by just removing this and having polite unique rules from enki.

 

Game desperately needs a more fair way to hunt these but this is not it, there needs to be some sort of big event for everybody or most of the players, rewarding alts less or equally is another topic.. handling performance also, but leaving best armor to be farmed by 5-10 people in 1-3 groups is just stupid to be left to happen. It's only gating content from the rest of the player base.

Buit right now they are farmed by 5-10 people in 1-3 groups because no one else knows when they pop up and sure we got a few who make them public but i bet quite a few go under the radar and are kept to their own little groups with none the wiser.
What they should have done is properly punished those who repeatedly caused issues(healing unique's/summoning in countless alts to steal hide weight without fighting the dam thing just to name 2 examples) but instead they weren't punished so people kept exploiting it
You want it to be fair then let all of us know when they spawn that way everyone has a fair chance to try and find it(short of the cheaters)

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Better yet make them exactly like rifts. Spawn a light you go to event you get x contribution points. Dragon Kill Points(DKP) spawn some welps or minions before having to fight the baddy boss. Can start like the egg will hatch in 2 days or soemthing. 1 group won't be able to solo them cause the events can be made harder and no instant rewards ect.

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I don't think announcing them is the answer but I do agree that they could use a rework to make the whole system more inclusive. Tbh I appreciate and try to attend public slayings just to be part of a big community event, but as far as getting armor or whatever it is the mats give you, I genuinely never even bothered to look into it as the whole feature is firmly etched into the unobtainable category for me.

 

I think what would be quite cool, especially now treasure hunts are in is if the timers were randomized more and you could obtain clues when a rare is up "you see scorch marks it could only be from a Dragon" or something.

 

Fun Fact: I started on Cadence after Steam launch and 2 of the servers first Dragons actually spawned near my deed. Not knowing how special these spawns were I actually kited a Red Dragon a few tiles away to get rid of it, nothing (that I've had chance to see) has spawned since so I guess my luck was used up when I had no idea what to do with it.

Edited by HawkHawk

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16 minutes ago, wipeout said:

But they do though that's the sad part before everyone knew but now its those who spend their time digging through WU code or are running external tools be it map dumps or excel sheets based on historical data to figure out spawn rate(Yes there is one floating around in the wild and its a glorious little spreadsheet)

You are correct, I suppose I should say they don't know the exact second anymore 😆 

 

I'd prefer them to be more accessible for sure, I just don't agree with a timed loot piñata with the current mechanics honestly. If they were to be timed and have event locations, I think they should have some serious mechanical overhauls to make them more like rifts in that they require tactics and time. 

 

I think the best thing about uniques at the moment is Stanlee's themes. That's something we can all agree on, right? 

Edited by Archaed
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14 minutes ago, FallenKnight said:

bEpzvY6.png (525×930) (imgur.com) 

 

look how many slayers was public.. they really need to do something with that...

Based on the last 110 slayings

95 of them had more then 10 people
61 of them had more then 15
35 had more then 20
24 had more then 40
13 had more then 80

So what do we define as "public" in this case ;)

The average group of high skilled players vs unique is around 7-15(15 takes a long time unless really great gear and what have you) from what i have seen and been part of as part of private slayings biggest "private" slaying was 24 people not counting alts but most of the time we are 13-15 not counting alts


Edit
Since start of this year 203 uniques have been slain of those
170 had more then 10
114 had more then 15
74 had more then 20
44 had more then 40
26 had more then 80

Edited by wipeout
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14 minutes ago, wipeout said:

Based on the last 110 slayings

95 of them had more then 10 people
61 of them had more then 15
35 had more then 20
24 had more then 40
13 had more then 80

So what do we define as "public" in this case ;)

The average group of high skilled players vs unique is around 7-15(15 takes a long time unless really great gear and what have you) from what i have seen and been part of as part of private slayings biggest "private" slaying was 24 people not counting alts but most of the time we are 13-15 not counting alts


Edit
Since start of this year 203 uniques have been slain of those
170 had more then 10
114 had more then 15
74 had more then 20
44 had more then 40
26 had more then 80

can only counting numbers really give a good idea? I just click on one https://niarja.com/uniques/2787 which is impressive xD

Well if people want it to change I don't know what's a good change. I guess @Archaed's general idea that the spawn mechanics themselves can be changed, maybe that's the best, so they spawn more truly random.

Edited by Lovelie
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Just now, Lovelie said:

can only counting numbers really give a good idea? I just click on one https://niarja.com/uniques/2787 xD Well if people want it to change I don't know what's a good change. I guess @Archaed's general idea that the spawn mechanics themselves can be changed, maybe that's the best, so they spawn more truly random.

then they again broke something to make private slayers easier catch uniques ;D

 

i think for now messege for event with spawning animals can have everyone the same chance to found one :) 

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1 minute ago, FallenKnight said:

then they again broke something to make private slayers easier catch uniques ;D

 

i think for now messege for event with spawning animals can have everyone the same chance to found one :) 

You winky face but I don't know the history I only opened the first link xD I don't think public spawn announcement fully solves problem does it? The mechanics are the same right? So obviously if someone puts the time or the effort or they know it better then obviously people will still complain about advantages and unfair chances right?

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8 minutes ago, Lovelie said:

can only counting numbers really give a good idea? I just click on one https://niarja.com/uniques/2787 which is impressive xD Well if people want it to change I don't know what's a good change. I guess @Archaed's general idea that the spawn mechanics themselves can be changed, maybe that's the best, so they spawn more truly random.

Actually yes yes it does give a good idea it shows the total amount of uniques slain vs group size based on the the cut of points i put in.
Following the logic that 13 people takes 1+ hour unless everyone is really strong most groups would aim for 15-20 for private so assuming sometimes that might be a bit more we can say "okay so cut of for private vs public is 40" in this case so of the 203 uniques only 44 were considered public.

That is what numbers can show you and show how few public slayings really happen and why? because as it stands right now the hunting groups know the spawning mechanics well enough that they can go to a server at the required day and roam around and often find it before others do and then show up with their 20 odd man private group to kill it with none the wiser no deed no nothing which in turn gates unique's behind "are you part of group x? if not good luck" and hunting groups are the main reason unique drama is even a thing that and a certain someone who just had to troll a specific alliance.

End of the day having unique's spawn with no indication in the current system just results in unique hunting groups having the upper hand, what fallen and i are aiming for is to close this gap to a point where everyone has the knowledge and thus the chance to go out there and look for them, what others are proposing is a new system with a lot of dev time to attempt to solve the drama that comes from unique's to begin with.

What is better? the current system where only a handful of elite groups or cheaters know when unique's spawn or the old one(with the rules in place) where everyone could know when they spawn

 

 

2 minutes ago, Lovelie said:

You winky face but I don't know the history I only opened the first link xD I don't think public spawn announcement fully solves problem does it? The mechanics are the same right? So obviously if someone puts the time or the effort or they know it better then obviously people will still complain about advantages and unfair chances right?


Yes there are a few people who are being stupid and using 10+ alts but that isnt the norm and throwing that many meatbags at a unique just to kill it with a few people is silly and isnt what private slayings are typically about really.

A short history lesson

Unique hunting groups became a thing when unique's became a respawnable thing to kill
From here hide and scale and potions were given a monetary value
Then the distribution of rewards was changed to cap how much you could get from a unique
The third point caused there to be groups or individual players to start trying to steal unique's or be in local of it when it gets killed as to steal away the hide/scale
This leads to drama time and time again but was mostly ignored by gms and devs for a long time
Fast forward a few years and countless posts and unique snipes the spell summon soul was added
A few weeks later someone had the bright idea to go to a certain server right after the message about a unique spawning and track down those who lived on that server who were hunting for it(this is all fine and well)
Then that person decided upon finding the unique to try and kite it into a mine he had made in an attempt to steal it from them, this failed and unique was killed without the person around
New unique spawned and this time that group had enough players to kill it on the spot but that other person showed up and this time they started to summon people over 1 became 2 2 became 4 on it went to a point where if they had killed that unique there and then he would have walked away with most of the loot
This lead to him being told not do that anymore(after the 2nd time)
Another unique and now he came over again but this time started to heal the unique by casting spells on it
Gm got called he got told off(again nothing but a "dont do it again)
A few uniques go by that group finds another one and on the day of slaying they find their unique gone as that other person had made a deed nearby and had used alts to use the unique's tunneling feature to lure it more then a local away underground via a tunnel the unique made and then slaughtered it
A few more uniques a few more issues between that group and him and then he started to move on to other groups as well

This is basically when the gms decided they had enough and started to do the knee jerk reaction of "fine lets make it so that the message is gone"
Fast forward a bit more drama because someone went afk in local of a hunting group after the rule was made to leave the local if they ask you to and the person got in trouble even though he didnt know because the hunting group was being stubborn and stupid about it

Anyway this is but 1 such chain of events of the many many drama events related to uniques that have happened over the years but it was 1 that lead to the deletion of a mechanic and making it easier for hunting groups to profit

Edited by wipeout
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Just now, Lovelie said:

You winky face but I don't know the history I only opened the first link xD I don't think public spawn announcement fully solves problem does it? The mechanics are the same right? So obviously if someone puts the time or the effort or they know it better then obviously people will still complain about advantages and unfair chances right?

but look how its looks now... Private slayers know the timers when the unique will spawn then looking for them when other players dont know they can spawn and siting in deed.. Like @wipeout said "he message was nice because it meant a break from doing whatever we are doing to get on our horse and roam around and explore to try and find it "   

now its really 1-3 groups making them private on NFI and rest who find them 1/100 time make it public 😛

Uniques spawn really need rework but for start with that  MESSEGE on event chat will make it more fair.

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+1 I pretty much suggested similar in another thread and had my opnion stated in various other threads, so don't wanna talk much about it so i don't get banned. Glad to see actually not everyone is member of the "mutual admiration society" and there's some various opinions on the subject.

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The current system does have a quirk of information asymmetry where the last person to find a unique knows best when the next will spawn.

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3 minutes ago, Lethyria said:

The current system does have a quirk of information asymmetry where the last person to find a unique knows best when the next will spawn.

 

And from the events not too long ago it looks like it's more then that.

Edited by Tor
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The present difference between people who find uniques and people who do not is their willingness to actually dedicate time to searching for them. Time and time again variations on this topic come up from people who, frankly, seem to understand the situation quite poorly.

Having no message for unique spawns does not make it easier for the same group to find them over and over. It only makes it more likely for people native to a server to find its uniques. Aside from that, anyone at all is equally capable of searching for and penning uniques, if the same people are finding all the uniques it is only because they are putting many hours into doing so. Making uniques more "accessible" to people who do not put in the same amount of effort is antithetical to the spirit of the game.

That is to say, Wurm is a game where you get out only what you put in, nothing falls into your lap. It's a game where learning about and mastering its various systems and mechanics gets you ahead. You could ride around in a cart for weeks as a new player or you could grind to 21 body control in a day or two and ride a horse. Likewise you could sit on deed and complain about nobody delivering drake or scale to you, or you could go and put in the time to search for them like everyone else.

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make it that unique spawns and there is message, after 24h there is slaying, everyone has a chance to get tome/bone/whatever. problem solved

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20 minutes ago, Adnurak said:

The present difference between people who find uniques and people who do not is their willingness to actually dedicate time to searching for them. Time and time again variations on this topic come up from people who, frankly, seem to understand the situation quite poorly.

Having no message for unique spawns does not make it easier for the same group to find them over and over. It only makes it more likely for people native to a server to find its uniques. Aside from that, anyone at all is equally capable of searching for and penning uniques, if the same people are finding all the uniques it is only because they are putting many hours into doing so. Making uniques more "accessible" to people who do not put in the same amount of effort is antithetical to the spirit of the game.

That is to say, Wurm is a game where you get out only what you put in, nothing falls into your lap. It's a game where learning about and mastering its various systems and mechanics gets you ahead. You could ride around in a cart for weeks as a new player or you could grind to 21 body control in a day or two and ride a horse. Likewise you could sit on deed and complain about nobody delivering drake or scale to you, or you could go and put in the time to search for them like everyone else.

 

This narrative is pretty out dated now in 2022, it doesn't exactly work like that.

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2 minutes ago, Tor said:

 

This narrative is pretty out dated now in 2022, it doesn't exactly work like that.

Perhaps you could explain how and why rather than just declaring me wrong with no reasoning.

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2 minutes ago, Adnurak said:

Perhaps you could explain how and why rather than just declaring me wrong with no reasoning.

 

Having a message when unique spaws gives literally everyone the same information that only few might have it by means of exploits, datamining or other metagaming info. Hundrets of dragons was exploited by same people that got banned because this "hard work" are you suggesting in here?

 

So you are suggesting only this few players with questioanble means of getting this info, should have the info, because apparently they are putting effort?  Are you or me arbitars of who is putting more efforts?

This message would only let everyone know that there's unique around and if they willing to put effort, they may.

I am all for hard work giving results for every aspects in wurm, in this case have nothing to do with it

 

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4 minutes ago, Tor said:

 

Having a message when unique spaws gives literally everyone the same information that only few might have it by means of exploits, datamining or other metagaming info. Hundrets of dragons was exploited by same people that got banned because this "hard work" are you suggesting in here?

 

So you are suggesting only this few players with questioanble means of getting this info, should have the info, because apparently they are putting effort?  Are you or me arbitars of who is putting more efforts?

This message would only let everyone know that there's unique around and if they willing to put effort, they may.

I am all for hard work giving results for every aspects in wurm, in this case have nothing to do with it

 

If you have evidence that unique hunters are using an exploit to determine the time or location of spawns I'm sure the team would love to see it. Otherwise this is something that lives entirely in your imagination. Was someone actually banned for that? If someone was banned for that then is not the issue solved? If you know someone else is using some exploit then you should report them instead of making allusions to it on the forums. As far as I can tell from your post this is something you believe other people are doing and you are asserting it without evidence. That's not an argument.

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