Reinforced walls on disband

[Arelone 10]

I am often seeing people asking about removing reinforced walls.  If these walls are off deed it is very difficult.  My idea would be that when a deed disbands the reinforcements of mine walls should be automatically removed.  Otherwise we're going to end up with masses of these reinforcements that are, for most people, impossible to get rid of. 

[HawkHawk 299]

I can see the benefit to this but there are cases where reinforcements are required to remain long after a deed is disbanded. Someone might deed on top of a Highway Tunnel or underground Canal which would cause problems if they were to later disband. There is also the possibility of builders deeding these spots to protect the construction process which means they will never be able to drop the deeds onces construction is complete.

[Radircs 76]

Hm not a fan waht if you just resize a few times and the mine just get Undeed and redeeded again? On top ther are maybe some short term projects with tunnels that need a deed. You would basicly have to reinforce it again or don't do it during the project waht sound realy cumbersom.

If I remamber right ther is some form of tracking when a player was last on a tile (close to it) so maybe with this you could increes the dice chance of a reinforcment to drop when the game try to generate a new tile.

[Ecrir 887]

That could be really painful if you end up letting your deed disband by accident (which is already quite painful to begin with). Perhaps an alternative could be to make it so that reinforcements are easier to remove in that case, instead of removing them automatically?

[Wurmhole 3,650]

This would unfortunately be a huge problem for the reasons stated above.  I'm one of the ones that think we need changes to the reinforcement mechanics and love new ideas.  Sadly, the removal is such a pain, because they need it difficult for pvp.  I wish they could have it easier on PvE servers.  Make disintegrate 10x more likely to succeed on PvE.  Something.  Maybe make the spell power stack on each spell cast on PvE.  Anything to speed up the process for off deed removal.  But sadly that means fewer deeds dropped out of frustration, which is a nice silver sink for the company.

[Ekcin 2,407]

-1 absolutely. Reinforcements have to do with deeds only so far as mayor and villagers/players with appropriate rights can remove reinforcements. Reinforcements have their sense and use independently from deeds.

 

Reinforcement removal is not hard usually, just needs a temporary deed. Where that is not possible, it can be complicated. But I think the protection it gives to communication tunnels and other underground structures is worth that problem.

 

If you want reinforcements removed on a former deed, re-deed it and hack them away. If done fast, it costs you only the tile cost, 1.40s or so for a minimum sized deed plus some irons or coppers upkeep depending on how fast you are.

Edited August 29, 2022 by Ekcin

[gorgian 181]

I can see your point OP. Rather then a deed falling. Maybe make the strength of a reinforcing as strong as a 9999 like a ore vein. This way a person can pick away at it over time, or a casting Disintegrate, but change the spell properties so it will take a sort of damage in chunk form the reinforcement like an ore vein.  This way it is possible for anyone to do this removal. A players higher the skill will make the process quicker like every other skill.

 

Basically the idea is to give everyone the freedom to do what they like. With out being stuck behind a skill wall(priest with 70+), or a pay wall (deed). 

[Ekcin 2,407]

16 hours ago, gorgian said:

I can see your point OP. Rather then a deed falling. Maybe make the strength of a reinforcing as strong as a 9999 like a ore vein. This way a person can pick away at it over time, or a casting Disintegrate, but change the spell properties so it will take a sort of damage in chunk form the reinforcement like an ore vein.  This way it is possible for anyone to do this removal. A players higher the skill will make the process quicker like every other skill.

 

Basically the idea is to give everyone the freedom to do what they like. With out being stuck behind a skill wall(priest with 70+), or a pay wall (deed). 

Not completely opposed to, but then there should be a possibility to re-reinforce, e.g. when damage is >50% just by applying another support beam, or strongwall cast, and dmg seen by prospecting, exact dmg at prospecting 90+,. rest like hits left in a vein.

Edited August 30, 2022 by Ekcin

[DaletheGood 1,073]

My main concern with making it easier to remove reinforcement is our tunnel system. Here on Xanadu tunnels are the easiest way to get to large portions of the interior. Someone coming along and destroying one, just because the tunnel didn't fit into their plans or whatever, would make travel even more time-consuming.

[gorgian 181]

 

3 hours ago, DaletheGood said:

My main concern with making it easier to remove reinforcement is our tunnel system. Here on Xanadu tunnels are the easiest way to get to large portions of the interior. Someone coming along and destroying one, just because the tunnel didn't fit into their plans or whatever, would make travel even more time-consuming.

 

Yes I agree this is a concern for me too. Most main tunnels/canals are governed not to be chanced unless you contact a GM first. 

3 hours ago, Ekcin said:

Not completely opposed to, but then there should be a possibility to re-reinforce, e.g. when damage is >50% just by applying another support beam, or strongwall cast, and dmg seen by prospecting, exact dmg at prospecting 90+,. rest like hits left in a vein.

This is a great idea too. 

 

Only issue i can see is on pvp. Maybe have the option to "repair" with beam only available after so many hours since last damage tick done. 

[Mowglia 190]

Initially it seems like a good idea to just let them rot slowly over time on PvE servers; I can't think of much that we can build on Wurm that doesn't require any form of maintenance.

 

That said, public infrastructure (tunnels, etc), and especially on Xan - we can't really expect players to maintain this stuff? Especially after the epic slog of building them.

 

Which is probably why reinforcements are still the way they are.

[Lisimba 779]

17 minutes ago, gorgian said:

Yes I agree this is a concern for me too. Most main tunnels/canals are governed not to be chanced unless you contact a GM first. 

This is a great idea too. 

 

Suppose an off-deed reinforced wall would take 500 mining actions to break, and would give no resources while you're doing it. So about ten times as much effort as a regular wall, with no rewards other than getting to the other side. I figure that would be enough to deter random vandalism, while for someone who's attaching a side tunnel or something for a legit project wouldn't have all that much extra work.

 

On deed would stay as is.

 

17 minutes ago, gorgian said:

Only issue i can see is on pvp. Maybe have the option to "repair" with beam only available after so many hours since last damage tick done. 

 

Could have reinforced walls repair themselves over time instead. That would also mean you don't have to maintain regular tunnels against anyone who'd take a random swing at a wall.

[Lisimba 779]

3 minutes ago, Mowglia said:

Initially it seems like a good idea to just let them rot slowly over time on PvE servers; I can't think of much that we can build on Wurm that doesn't require any form of maintenance.

 

Well, roads themselves don't really rot, and neither does landscaping. And if you really get down to it, a tunnel is really just a road going through an underground landscaping project 😛

[DaletheGood 1,073]

3 hours ago, gorgian said:

Most main tunnels/canals are governed not to be chanced unless you contact a GM first

I don't think the majority of tunnels are Heritage Sites. Of the ~20 tunnels and canals I've been thru in NE Xan, only 4-5 of them are Heritage Sites.