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elentari

20 MOI's in 1 month, no maps

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Posted (edited)

So this month I got around 19-20 MOI's from farming and praying on 2 accounts. No maps.  


I talked to a few people and they noticed a similar pattern as well. Was the % to get maps ninja reduced or did something broke during the last month's patches or server downtime due to the hosting issues?

 

Statistically speaking with a 20% chance to get a map x 20 events, I should've gotten 1 map but this doesn't make sense at all. 

 

If it was indeed ninja reduced or intentional then for the love of god and all game design please chance the journal goal to collect "10 difficult chests" since that goal is pretty much impossible at this rate. This is pure cruelty at this point. 

Edited by elentari
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Posted (edited)
38 minutes ago, elentari said:

Statistically speaking with a 20% chance to get a map x 20 events, I should've gotten 1 map but this doesn't make sense at all.

 

The probability of doing 20 (rare) rolls and getting no maps is (1 - 0.2)^20, which is 0.012 or 1.2%. That's clearly really unlucky, and really frustrating. But with hundreds of people playing Wurm, the chances are that 1 in every 100 people will get that unlucky with maps (or worse...).

 

So not clear that it's bugged, but I think it's pretty cruel to have so many MOIs fail to give you a map. It would be nice if there was a maximum amount of failed rolls before you eventually get a map (say, 5 or 10). Otherwise a handful of people will always get really unlucky and basically be completely locked out of the feature, for no reason other than that the RNG gods didn't like them.

 

Hell, you could even do away with the RNG entirely, and just make it so that every 5th MOI always gives a rare map. That would keep the same map rates, but would prevent some people from getting terribly unlucky and not being able to enjoy the new treasure map feature at all.

 

(if you want to keep some element of randomness, you could have map-giving MOIs get counted in batches of five, and always give a map for one of the maps in every batch. That way it isn't consistently on the 5th MOI every time, but does still mean 1 in every set of 5 MOIs will always give a map.)

Edited by Docterchese

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Posted (edited)

That's just how rng goes. I got 3 maps in the last two days mining. Just keep at it

A pity system would be nice for players who're getting considerably unlucky

 

Edited by Synjor

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17 minutes ago, Docterchese said:

Hell, you could even do away with the RNG entirely, and just make it so that every 5th MOI always gives a rare map. That would keep the same map rates, but would prevent some people from getting terribly unlucky and not being able to enjoy the new treasure map feature at all.

 

(if you want to keep some element of randomness, you could have map-giving MOIs get counted in batches of five, and always give a map for one of the maps in every batch. That way it isn't consistently on the 5th MOI every time, but does still mean 1 in every set of 5 MOIs will always give a map.)

I think this would be the perfect middle ground. 

 

The major flaw in this current design of treasure maps is it's precise unfairness and honestly from a player's psychology standpoint, total sadness and demoralization to the point I kinda wanna take a break from wurm until something changes, if anything will change at all.

 

As @Synjor said, he gets 3 maps in 2 days of mining, some don't get any for weeks. This isn't a fair system. Before someone starts with a sentence like "life isn't fair anyways" I'd remind you Wurm isn't life, it's a game with a ruleset behind it that's meant in the end to provide entertainment and fun. So if you're designing a game based on life, it won't attract a large amount of people. 

 

And I'll ask the question, if 1/100 people or 5/100 people or whatever the RNG number is right now (scaled to the Wurm pop) are having a miserable time with this system, why isn't this system changed? Do they pay less in euros for subscription? Are they 2nd class players? I think this system needs to be revised atm since basing journal goals on PURE RNG is mobile gaming levels of awfulness in a nutshell. 

 

Wish a dev would comment if anything was changed with the system or it is working as it was when it was launched. 

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I have been getting a good amount of maps from farming lately, but a month ago I couldn't get a map to save my soul.  Just the way it goes and personally I am fine with the random current system.  Although, I have no idea what the lore would be for praying to give treasure maps, but that's a debate for another time.  

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Posted (edited)

I think MOIs in general need a rework, not just maps. I guess this is the wrong thread for that though.

 

Anyway,

 

I got a supreme and a rare horse shoe in the space of 24 hours RL time imping. Since then, I have ground out 70 - 90 in several skills, gotten about 15 successsful imps with MOIs and not a single one went rare, that was almost 4 weeks ago now.

Edited by Rudie
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Posted (edited)

Well, I also experience "bad rng" since months. The last 2 caskets I had were both from supremes (iron ore and botanizing sassafras), I think about 15-20 MOI rares in that period at minimum (other than rare coins), and no single casket. Strangely, my first farming MOI short after the introduction of maps yielded a casket, so did my first MOI when mining out some iron veins in my way in my mine. No rare casket from foraging or botanizing but one, most prolly the first MOI in that category, from forestry. That was all. My gut feeling is that I had more MOIs in the past, but honestly, I never trust gut feelings in random events, and even half a year of no MOI would not necessarily break the error margin :) . I would much appreciate Doctorchese's proposal to bring a bit more determinism into casket detection.

Edited by Ekcin

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, elentari said:

Statistically speaking with a 20% chance to get a map x 20 events, I should've gotten 1 map but this doesn't make sense at all. 

The chance for you to get at least 1 over a sample of 20 is about 98.85%
1.15% is not a lot, but statistically, something like this will happen to at least 5 players over 500. You might be one of them

Not saying it's 100% not a bug, but it may very well just be bad luck, far from impossible.

Edit: Meh, I wouldn't say this is "bad rng" ... i did witness some istances of "bad rng", but this could just be normal RNG doing its job of being randomly punishing.
 

Edited by Davih
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Posted (edited)

I havn't gotten even single MOI, did like 15k clay and around 4-5k slate last 2-3 days

EDIT: and about 1 rare coffee cherry after 40-50K of coffee harvested during last month

Edited by Tor

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dunno about maps, but playing 20 months and maybe got 1 MoI, so my odds at a map are slim. To be fair i actually did 2 maps since they were released. One i got from my own journal as reward, the other one i got from my priest acc, also journal reward. All in all, i do rate this content update 10/10 as really it did make f@^> all of a difference.. then again could never understand why do you have a chance at a map praying, but not hunting.. Why do you get a chance foraging, but dont get woodcutting. Oh well. 

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2 minutes ago, Skatyna said:

20 months and maybe got 1 MoI, 

Damn, how? Do you rightclick for every action?

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Posted (edited)
27 minutes ago, Davih said:

Damn, how? Do you rightclick for every action?

 

Skilled account, fast action timers, never gives MOI. Antique known bug that never gets fixed. If you mine/dig with 2-3s timers you will never get MOI, specifically do 1 action every 30 secs or a minute, then you will. 

Edited by Skatyna

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I have heard few people say to wait 18 seconds between action before .

Not sure if it matters are not .

I do know some player seem to have horse shoes up there ass when it comes to moi .

I get maybe 1 moi a week and other times i may get 3 , its all rng .

But if it can be broken or jinxed my character comes  in first place ..

🤣

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Remember when Ostentaio discovered that using a rare in complex creation had 0% chance of transferring rarity and that getting a natural MOI on complex creation had a 100% guarantee no matter how complex the item…?

 

It wouldn’t surprise me at all if there were some factors that make chance, “chance+”. There’s good luck and bad luck, but there’s rarely pure luck ;)

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Finally managed to get a map from mining on Epic last night. After about 1000 mining actions. Might be a bad idea to pray for maps these days ;D

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