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Patch Notes 2-AUG-2022

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28 minutes ago, elvenwing said:

what happened to old ui?

 

 

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1 hour ago, Shagsangel said:

LMAO!!! Stop being mad at people for not sharing the same opinion as you or not understanding the game like you...everyone plays the game the way they want and the devs has made a decision, whatever you say or think won't change their opinions ;)

 

How about we let people voice how they feel about changes to the game that will effect they way that they play the game. Rest assured, just because the change may not bother you, there are more then one person who is bothered by these changes. 

 

I agree that faith changing should not be a thing for the sake of sleep bonus...but then there is the valid thought that this will probably have an impact on people who play the game and how active they are...people who start being less active in games often times find themselves moving onto other games that they can be more active in because it suits their play style. Regardless of if this was an intended style of play, it was one that the devs left in the game long enough that there are many people who have adapted to playing it and it will effect those players. Time will tell if those players stick around with their money or move onto something else.

 

I also feel that this change could have been done in a manner that did not effect preaching. Anytime you have a game mechanic that has been working as intended, such as preaching, and then a change is made that limits that mechanic, you hurt your player base. The goal should always be to improve and add to the game, not include nerfs that don't feel to be fully thought out as to how that nerf would effect other long term skills. The ability to change faiths and gain SB from rites has been in the game long enough, that leaving it in longer with the goal of coming to a better thought out solution would have had no effect to the current situation. 

 

The ongoing changes and testing being done to archeology, even as this thread is posted, is a great example of consulting the player base, getting feedback and then making the desired changes. Neither archeology nor the faith switching was something that I feel was something that "NEEDED" to be changed, but I do feel that the process that is being taken with archeology is the correct method, while making the changes to faith without doing some form of rework or revisit to preaching, making it into a more involved skill of the game, was a less then desired approach.

 

Happy Wurming

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Posted (edited)
11 minutes ago, gnomegates said:

How about we let people voice how they feel about changes to the game that will effect they way that they play the game. Rest assured, just because the change may not bother you, there are more then one person who is bothered by these changes. 

 

This doesn't come out of nowhere, it has been discussed quite extensively already. See for example this suggestion thread:

 

The thread to request reverting this change has a poll at the top, and it currently stands at 77.61% agreeing with today's patch change. See:

 

So people have voiced how they feel about this, both before and after the change, and a very large majority is in favor of it.

 

Edited by Lisimba
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3 minutes ago, Lisimba said:

 

This doesn't come out of nowhere, it has been discussed quite extensively already. See for example this suggestion thread:

 

And no where did I say that it did come out of nowhere, I am fully aware of the support behind it, and I also support it...however my point, that you seemed to have missed, is that I feel that there was a better way to make this change....its that simple. 

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5 hours ago, Pukaria said:

 

I'm going to mostly copy-paste here what I said in this thread...

 

I am one of the VERY few people that actually skill Preaching, playing with a main priest. People switching faiths for rites was the best thing for me to work on this skill.

 

Conversion itself is absolutely hands down the most effective way of gaining Preaching skill. People converting gave opportunities to go to public slayings and get confessions from many followers at a time, when Holy Crop had been cast recently, on top of performing the conversions themselves.

 

Now what am I left with?? Making a bunch of non-premium alts to convert back and forth every 7 days, and get (low difficulty, low tickrate, no CoC) confessions from. Most people are not going to follow Fo for any period of time after this change.

 

Please consider reevaluating the change so it is not so extreme. I'd propose making the faith requirement 20 instead of 30. One of my favorite things in Wurm is the quality of life bonuses you get for skill, outside of the more obvious things like higher quality resources. Things like seeing farm tiles, grass length, or tree age from further away as you skill Farming, Gardening, and Forestry.

 

Making the requirement 30 feels like a spit in the face by the dev team, because no matter how hard I work at Preaching, it's mechanically impossible to convert at this level. There has been plenty of discussion around this topic, and it seems like no one (players or staff) were considering the Preaching implications, even though it is the mechanic at the heart of the issue.

 

Of course reevaluating the Preaching mechanic would be welcome as well. 🙃

 

Can't agree with this more, as a fellow preaching lover (42 right now so def have done my fair share) I really want to see this skill reworked and fixed, I came up with a fairly barebones improvement, perhaps we could discuss the pros and cons in the suggestion post I made a few days ago and come up with some nice possible changes for the skill?

 

Improve Preaching Functionality - Suggestions & Ideas - Wurm Online Forum

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I don’t understand why this was even an issue.  Seems like a solution in search of a problem.  If you don’t like faith swapping, then don’t.  The “harm” is minimal to people who don’t like it, but substantial to those that do.  Bunch of old ladies clutching their pearls watching their neighbors play Wurm.  How about putting the focus on actual QoL instead of getting involved in trivial and divisive issues that have no net positive effect?  Love how Wurm players can’t seem to get out of their own way with petty drama like this.

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3 hours ago, Urbanius said:

I don’t understand why this was even an issue.  Seems like a solution in search of a problem.  If you don’t like faith swapping, then don’t.  The “harm” is minimal to people who don’t like it, but substantial to those that do.  Bunch of old ladies clutching their pearls watching their neighbors play Wurm.  How about putting the focus on actual QoL instead of getting involved in trivial and divisive issues that have no net positive effect?  Love how Wurm players can’t seem to get out of their own way with petty drama like this.

The issue seems to have come down to how the group of players who are using faith swaps for sleep bonus(instead of any of the other ways to do so) are creating drama and trying to pressure people into not doing rites back to back because "I don't want to miss out on my free gains by exploiting a mechanic that was not intended to be used this way" these people would go and create drama when they don't get what they want and it seems to be affecting a lot of people out there.

Can't say this ever has been an issue in SFI as most of us know why faith swap even became a thing that we could do but honestly the mentality of "I SHOULD RAGE AND BE UPSET BECAUSE MY EXPLOIT GOT TAKEN AWAY" is stupid be happy they don't go back to the 3 kingdom switch/3 faith swaps total idea's that used to be a thing way way back(Which we lost the cap on faith swaps when player religions came in and we got a faith swap purchasable added when PR's were taken out after everyone received 1 free faith swap)

Faith swapping was never meant to be a mechanic for rites and if you refuse to play unless you have sleep bonus then please i suggest you go play a different game(I don't mean you the person who i quoted in here but in general) from what i see here and the other topic its like a small handful of people who are genuinely raging about a mechanic being partly fixed so that people wont abuse it.


If we were to get angry over every such event the forums would look like a hot spot on the sun there have been so many mechanics that were okay but got destroyed because 1-5 people abused it and made to be way more annoying then before heck we have had skill changes because 1 person didn't like them and its silly yes but the idea that "oh it drives away 50% of players because we cant do x" as some people are making it out to be is just bs they will all keep playing wurm and in a week or 2 no one will care they will just miss it like we miss other "features"

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9 hours ago, Urbanius said:

I don’t understand why this was even an issue.  Seems like a solution in search of a problem.  If you don’t like faith swapping, then don’t.  The “harm” is minimal to people who don’t like it, but substantial to those that do.

 

I'll (again) link to this post, which has an example of the harm it causes to non-swappers:

Quote

This has recently caused an issue during an impalong held at Cadence where due to the amount of favor that has been gained from the priests doing their work allowing for a the rite of spring to be conducted, but because of a loud minority of "religion-switchers", the rite was requested to be held off by the organiser so that this minority could gain from their abuse of a game mechanic. This causes other people who are non-switchers, and are part of the worship of vynoria, not to receive that much needed 5 hour sleep bonus during their time at the impalong, and the organiser being caught in the middle having to make a decision between two groups to appease.

 

 

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If you look at the arguing in this thread, you see the arguing that takes place each and every time a rite is ready to be cast or cast without announcing.

 

Plus add the additional arguing about WHEN it should be cast if announced.

 

That toxicity is the reason for the change.

 

They can minimize the frequency of it flaring up and polluting the pleasure of the game by just getting rid of the mechanic that is the root of these regular arguments. That is their motivation and reasoning for the change, not whether it 'should' or shouldn't be one way or the other.

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Good change.

But why do we have faith change cooldown for 7 days still then? Remove it or lower it?

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14 minutes ago, Homestead said:

They can minimize the frequency of it flaring up and polluting the pleasure of the game by just getting rid of the mechanic that is the root of these regular arguments. That is their motivation and reasoning for the change, not whether it 'should' or shouldn't be one way or the other.

 

Yes, but to be a bit pedantic: the toxicity and arguing is the motivation for making a change, but that only covers the fact that most people want to get away from the previous situation. The consideration that religion should be a long term choice is what guides the actual change, so it's still important.

 

For example, a possible change would have been to do away with the 7 day timeout, so you can change religion multiple times per day. This would have done away with the toxicity as well but it would not fit the dev's vision of how things should be.

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Ok, so i am ATM vyn on south freedom and on chaos hots, offten while afk sailing, every time i go there it reset my faith. How about you find a way fix that conflict

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3 minutes ago, Tor said:

Ok, so i am ATM vyn on south freedom and on chaos hots, offten while afk sailing, every time i go there it reset my faith. How about you find a way fix that conflict

 

They did! Turn off PVP crossings and you won't AFK sail into Chaos anymore:

Quote

Transferring to Chaos from Freedom at a natural border crossing is no longer possible when PVP crossings are disabled for anyone on the boat.

 

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3 minutes ago, Lisimba said:

 

They did! Turn off PVP crossings and you won't AFK sail into Chaos anymore:

 

 

That's not a fix for the faith reset. If i go to chaos now my faith gonna reset just because my account is HOTS on chaos but freedom and vyn on SFI, better kingdom change instead of the faith or at least ask you which one you want on server crossing

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23 minutes ago, Tor said:

 

That's not a fix for the faith reset. If i go to chaos now my faith gonna reset just because my account is HOTS on chaos but freedom and vyn on SFI, better kingdom change instead of the faith or at least ask you which one you want on server crossing

 

Yeah that's fair. It should probably just treat Chaos separately from PvE.

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Needed to happen, the toxicity and issues on the nfi servers were getting out of hand 

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Posted (edited)
On 8/3/2022 at 8:03 AM, Tor said:

If i go to chaos now my faith gonna reset just because my account is HOTS on chaos but freedom and vyn on SFI, better kingdom change instead of the faith or at least ask you which one you want on server crossing

This. Please fix this devs.

 

I was HOTS from previous membership in an old PMK but dare not cross now to join any other PMK due to the auto faith change when crossing. My progress with Vyn on Freedom is auto-nuked if I cross.

 

This puts players in an awful bind if they want to go join a pmk or travel to Chaos for any other reason. Auto faith-change with lasting consequences just for crossing over the border. Please fix this.

Edited by MordosKull
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Posted (edited)
On 8/3/2022 at 12:21 AM, Urbanius said:

I don’t understand why this was even an issue.  Seems like a solution in search of a problem.  If you don’t like faith swapping, then don’t.  The “harm” is minimal to people who don’t like it, but substantial to those that do.  Bunch of old ladies clutching their pearls watching their neighbors play Wurm.  How about putting the focus on actual QoL instead of getting involved in trivial and divisive issues that have no net positive effect?  Love how Wurm players can’t seem to get out of their own way with petty drama like this.

 

As you said here, I didn't like faith swapping so I didn't do faith swapping. I wish my point of view was this narrow too so I could say "just do that" and then be done with it, like you are.

 

Unfortunately, as a non-swapper, rites continuously gets pushed to adapt to the handful of swappers (yes, I still think it's a minority of people that swaps, not a majority) and the rest of us (which would be the majority, according to my beliefs) gets rites less frequently. If only this would be solved by being narrow minded enough to simply see "just don't swap if you don't like swapping" as a solution, that'd be great.

 

It doesn't.

 

 

Edited by Borstaskor

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16 hours ago, Borstaskor said:

 

As you said here, I didn't like faith swapping so I didn't do faith swapping. I wish my point of view was this narrow too so I could say "just do that" and then be done with it, like you are.

 

Unfortunately, as a non-swapper, rites continuously gets pushed to adapt to the handful of swappers (yes, I still think it's a minority of people that swaps, not a majority) and the rest of us (which would be the majority, according to my beliefs) gets rites less frequently. If only this would be solved by being narrow minded enough to simply see "just don't swap if you don't like swapping" as a solution, that'd be great.

 

It doesn't.

 

 

 

So it's "narrow" to support having either option, but somehow open minded to support a change that completely precludes one party from doing something?  That's some special logic.  No one was forcing anyone to stop a rite, if they wanted to they could hold one.  The problem is that people were so thin skinned that they didn't like people being upset with them.  Who cares?  If you wanted to cast the damn rite, then do it.  If you could work it out so that people could get more sleep bonus, then do it.  There was an option either way.  Now there is not.  Everyone is now forced to play according to your "open-minded" conception of the game.  From my perspective, I would use faith swap about 10-20% of the time.  It doesn't upset me all that much.  What I do think is lame AF is to have a unilateral change enforced that absolutely blocks some population of the game in service of the fragile mindset of another population so they can do something they already had the ability to do.

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Posted (edited)
33 minutes ago, Urbanius said:

 

So it's "narrow" to support having either option, but somehow open minded to support a change that completely precludes one party from doing something?  That's some special logic.  No one was forcing anyone to stop a rite, if they wanted to they could hold one.  The problem is that people were so thin skinned that they didn't like people being upset with them.  Who cares?  If you wanted to cast the damn rite, then do it.  If you could work it out so that people could get more sleep bonus, then do it.  There was an option either way.  Now there is not.  Everyone is now forced to play according to your "open-minded" conception of the game.  From my perspective, I would use faith swap about 10-20% of the time.  It doesn't upset me all that much.  What I do think is lame AF is to have a unilateral change enforced that absolutely blocks some population of the game in service of the fragile mindset of another population so they can do something they already had the ability to do.

 

You can still swap faith if you want. It just takes more time/effort to be eligible for the rite bonus. So if you only swapped faith 10-20% of the time previously, you probably can swap at the same 10-20% rate still, and you aren't "absolutely blocked" from doing "something you already had the ability to do". 

 

Edit for clarity, I re-read and suppose you are mainly talking about others who swapped faiths constantly. Even so, they are still not "absolutely blocked", right? It's just more of an investment to reap the benefits.

 

 

Edited by Lovelie

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 I'm really confused why those who changed religions every 7 days to gain 5 hours free SB believe it's the people who didn't like that who caused this, rather than the devs acknowledging that it allowed a major loophole in religion and SB gain as a whole and decided to change it to ensure that religion choice actually mattered and balance was restored. 

 

 

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1 hour ago, Archaed said:

 I'm really confused why those who changed religions every 7 days to gain 5 hours free SB believe it's the people who didn't like that who caused this, rather than the devs acknowledging that it allowed a major loophole in religion and SB gain as a whole and decided to change it to ensure that religion choice actually mattered and balance was restored. 

I believe the cause is the dramas which include the swapper and non-swapper. Both caused the dramas which lead to the acknowledgment from the devs.

Spoiler
On 8/3/2022 at 7:22 PM, Coach said:

If u ask me, does the religion is intended to be a long-term choice in wurm cause the change in mechanic?
IMO, that's just a cover.
There were dramas which people discussed in different posts. Will link some down below.

 

They have one common fact. The global spells which ready to be casted were delayed and the spells were rite of spring(Vynora).
I believe if the rite of spring didn't delay, the devs probably won't step in. When the religious in wurm become the majority, there is a force. Not to mention the amount of devs who follow Vynora.

Lore incoming: Vynora likes people who cast her global spell as soon as possible. An intented delay of the global spell is a blasphemy.

  Reveal hidden contents
On 5/6/2022 at 1:13 AM, Coach said:

People want to get sleep bonus as much as they can, no matter u are a stick with one deity player or a switching deity player. 

How to gain the global cast sleep bonus for most of the players in wurm is what we can discuss.


Lets assume the global cast spell cooldown is one month.
Majority of wurm players are crafter and most crafters are Vynora follower, ROS should cast every month no matter what, so most of players get sleep bonus per month.
Of course we know switching deity can get more sleep bonus per month, then ROD, HC and ROTS should be arranged by the switcher. The switcher should never change the schedule of ROS because most players are Vynora follower.


Ninja cast will not affect Vynora follower to gain sleep bonus, because they don't switch deity. 
Ninja cast only affect the switcher because they can't switch deity after seven days.
One of the reasons why people did Ninja cast because switcher affect their Vynora follower crafter(Majority of wurm player) to gain sleep bonus, because the switcher decided to delay ROS. 


Followers of Fo, Mag, Lib, ur sacrifice of 5% of specific skill gain (15% for fighting) can benefit most of the people in wurm to gain sleep bonus as much as they can. 

Vynora follower crafters gain sleep bonus per month. Switcher gain sleep bonus from ROD, HC and ROTS. It creates less Ninja casts if there is no delay of ROS (majority of the players to gain sleep bonus). Win win.

 

 

 

 

 

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I appreciate the faith swap changes in this update. The change will be good for the health of the community.

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[03:33:38] A reward from the Rite of Spring can only be claimed by those with at least 30 Faith.

--Recently I depriested so that I could started crafting again, I didn't Swap faith, I wasn't converted.. I kept my faith of Vynora.. as in Long term follower of Vynora. I plan to continue to priest and depriest and I request a work around so I don't miss out. Otherwise you are promoting players to either stay a priest or stay a crafter.

 

Suggestion: 1. Allow depriest to stay at 30 faith, instead of 20.

2. create a debuff for swapers and conversions that wont allow them to gain reward for x amount of time.

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22 minutes ago, Llawnroc said:

[03:33:38] A reward from the Rite of Spring can only be claimed by those with at least 30 Faith.

--Recently I depriested so that I could started crafting again, I didn't Swap faith, I wasn't converted.. I kept my faith of Vynora.. as in Long term follower of Vynora. I plan to continue to priest and depriest and I request a work around so I don't miss out. Otherwise you are promoting players to either stay a priest or stay a crafter.

 

Suggestion: 1. Allow depriest to stay at 30 faith, instead of 20.

2. create a debuff for swapers and conversions that wont allow them to gain reward for x amount of time.

Pray back up to 30? It's not super hard. 

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