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jaytoo

Archaeology/Restoration Rebalance - Public Testing

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Fridays combines in more detail (from the 500 fragments)

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TYpisti.jpg?1

 

 

Edited by Hailiah

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Rune details, I'm not sure how the rune allocation works and if its dependent upon our skills or something to do with the site, but are the scavenger runes missing?

 

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Edited by Hailiah

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Very excited about this, expecially the arrival of plank fragments. That is something I have missed :) Also I wont cry over the loss over arrowshaft fragments :D

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Me too, we will be able to make so many more things from the archaeology woods using planks, I just wonder if the colour schemes are in place for, blueberrywood (etc) chests, bsb, fsb, etc.

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46 minutes ago, Hailiah said:

Me too, we will be able to make so many more things from the archaeology woods using planks, I just wonder if the colour schemes are in place for, blueberrywood (etc) chests, bsb, fsb, etc.

As I understand there are no different models for the wood types but shaders applied on them. Now I have stopped to sacc the arrowshaft fragments, waiting for the miraculous transformation to plank fragments instead!

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Jaz, there's a journal entry for creating 100 arrows, I used some of my completed ones for that.

(Training Carpentry)

Edited by Hailiah

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Thinking of inconsistencies. Why are large metal shields coming from metal fragments rather than armour fragments?

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3 hours ago, Hailiah said:

but are the scavenger runes missing?

I have seen a scavenger rune from combining from this afternoon so far.

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Should items that can't be improved be getting runes that help with improving? Prompted by just getting a pottery jar with a copper/mag rune.

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25 minutes ago, Wulfmaer said:

I have seen a scavenger rune from combining from this afternoon so far.

I'm cleaning another new batch of 500 fragments hopefully ill get some as well.

Edited by Hailiah

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Had some ribbon fragments now, those are coming out from under, unidentified metal fragments

Where as the small nail fragments (and Large I think) are coming out from under, unidentified tool fragments.

Edited by Hailiah

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on test - 500 new fragments - 91 Archaeology 90 Restoration - Different disbanded deed (Blood Isle)

Haven't got enough fragments to make a weapon to look at those enchants/runes.

Managed to make more pottery stuff this time lots of silly runes on pottery.

Still no scavenger runes.

WoA is still the only enchantment appearing.

All items came out with either a rune or enchant (one item had both) (except bsb stuff)

Highest rune count on anything was 3 for a Scythe blade, iron, with :

 

1 A tin rune of Fo has been attached, so it will increase the chance of increasing rarity when improved (5%) and reduce damage taken (5%)

2 A copper rune of Vynora has been attached, so it will have a higher chance to be successfully improved (7.5%)

3 A zinc rune of Libila has been attached, so it will reduce weight (10%)

 

All the stuff from today is on the wagon (except what went in the bsb)

and ohh shiny wagon and cart :)

 

Edited by Hailiah

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Ummm, moved to a different location (Midgard). Completed the report, and got the cache and token. But, examining the token gives:

Quote

[06:25:42] A small village token from investigating the history of a deed. You can easily make out the signature of its maker, 'Starhero'. Ql: 90.16843, Dam: 0.0.

[06:25:42]  It can not be improved.

[06:25:42] This token details information for a village in distant lands.

 

Examining and reading the report while investigating did look normal.

 

Token is in cart, west side of the old Midgard deed.

Edited by Wulfmaer
add location

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20 hours ago, Wulfmaer said:
Quote

[06:25:42] This token details information for a village in distant lands.

 

Don't worry about it the deed is just bugged.

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public now with new patch  - this is not from the test server -

identified beer stein with these runes:

Spoiler

A beer mug made out of stoneware.
 You can barely make out the signature of its maker, 'Fi.n'.
A tin rune of Fo has been attached, so it will increase the chance of increasing rarity when improved (5%) and reduce damage taken (5%)
A copper rune of Jackal has been attached, so it will have a higher chance to be successfully improved (5%) and reduce the decay taken of items inside (5%)
A steel rune of Jackal has been attached, so it will reduce decay taken (10%)

this item can not be improved, but uses the old pottery rolled nonsense runes

Edited by Finnn

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On 8/9/2022 at 3:46 AM, jaytoo said:

Don't worry about it the deed is just bugged.

 

I notice, following release, that a fairly high proportion of old tokens are also showing as being in distant lands... will revisit one of those old deeds later and see what a new token from them shows...

 

... a little later, have revisited some old deeds and completed two reports. The tokens from both chests report as being from distant lands - same deeds as the old tokens. Both pre update showed details of the old deeds.

 

Report raised - see

 

Edited by Wulfmaer

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Btw @dev have you considered the option to have rune extraction and / or add color runes to items?

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got a File with tending fields rune, all fragments were gathered after the last patch, this is from live server, not the test*

Quote

A rugged metal blade on a shaft, used to make wood smoother. It could be improved with a lump.
You can barely make out the signature of its maker, 'Fi.n'.
A tin rune of Fo has been attached, so it will increase the chance of increasing rarity when improved (5%) and reduce damage taken (5%)
A lead rune of Magranon has been attached, so it will reduce the quality change when repairing damage (10%)
A gold rune of Fo has been attached, so it will have a chance to increase the effect of tending a field or harvesting a tree or bush (10%)

 

stone chisel, zinc

Quote

[04:15:44] A straight tool with a strong hard blade made for cutting stone. It could be improved with a lump.
[04:15:44] You can barely make out the signature of its maker, '.in.'.
[04:15:44] A glimmersteel rune of Vynora has been attached, so it will increase usage speed (5%) and increase quality at a faster rate when being improved (5%)
[04:15:44] A bronze rune of Libila has been attached, so it will gather resources at a higher quality level (10%)
[04:15:44] A adamantine rune of Fo has been attached, so it will increase the time an enchant holds its power on the item (5%) and increase the chance of successfully enchanting the item (5%)

 

hammer, iron

Quote

A hammer with a metal head and wooden shaft. It could be improved with a lump.
You can barely make out the signature of its maker, '.in.'.
Wind of Ages has been cast on it, so it will be quicker to use. [55]
A bronze rune of Magranon has been attached, so it will gather resources at a higher quality level (5%) and increase the time an enchant holds its power on the item (5%)

 

So far only observing the metals which roll from "metal" type fragments, most aren't coming out as "iron", I am with 99 restoration skill, there still seems to be high random chance

Restoration increased by 0.0002 to 99.0517

d75aceb250fbd6303aa0fe480d2719fc.png

 

 

At this rate we'll badly need 2 things to make use of some of these items, 2 biggest problems remain random metal types which discourage players from looking at the item, it's not worth to improve alloy tool like brass/bronze/etc or use weak and fast damaging metal, 1 other problem will be stocking or buying small bulk amounts of such metal types to maintain such tools and they will still be losing ql faster than iron tools.

That brings the other possible need to have some mechanic to convert such items from metal/alloys into default "ok" materials like iron and steel.

Edited by Finnn

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With perfect rolls iron is still only 50% likely. This is as intended.

All tools can get any tool runes. We tried isolating only applicable runes to tools and it was very over powered. Resulting in too many use speed and skill check runes. The alternative was nulling out that rune but the gather runes often have other effects that apply so I left it.

Rune extraction is not something I want to attempt to balance at the same time as this rebalance. I'm not personally sure it's even feasible to balance at all in a manner that isn't just frustrating to the user.

Color runes were brought up but didn't make it in this update. The scope was already getting large for a single update.

 

The broken token directions are being addressed. Turns out we're not sure what server deeds are from in some conditions.

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While I have posted it on the patch notes I think I mirror it here since its probably a better place.
Since the hidden point value is really important and to my memory is not only bound to QL of the fragment (high Ql indicate a good get her check but not factor in gather location) it would be nice if a examine would at least give some indicator if its on the top or bottom end. Not in full numbers of course but more in like brackets similar to distance.

@jaytoo You think something like this would be a line with the design philosophy behind Archeology?

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9 hours ago, jaytoo said:

With perfect rolls iron is still only 50% likely. This is as intended.

 

All tools can get any tool runes. We tried isolating only applicable runes to tools and it was very over powered. Resulting in too many use speed and skill check runes. The alternative was nulling out that rune but the gather runes often have other effects that apply so I left it.

 

Rune extraction is not something I want to attempt to balance at the same time as this rebalance. I'm not personally sure it's even feasible to balance at all in a manner that isn't just frustrating to the user.

Color runes were brought up but didn't make it in this update. The scope was already getting large for a single update.

 

The broken token directions are being addressed. Turns out we're not sure what server deeds are from in some conditions.

Good to know about the iron being 50-ish % at best, I assumed the player skill overrules this by a lot with the new changes.

 

One of the idk just bad scenario rolls I saw so far were things like shovel with 5% gather rune and all kinds of other enchanting, improvement etc runes, but this is completely useless item in every scenario, unless somebody literally hates itself or is pure beggar on the corner and wont ever afford normal 10% gathering rune.

Which made me think, what if.. we could improve such scenarios by replacing 5% gather with 10% - manually in just such cases by some new mechanic, then that's normal 10% gathering tool and whatever enchanting/imp or w/e extra runes are now actual bonus but not just reason to dispell all runes and add 10% gather or smelt it as best value on 5% gather tool like shovel/pickaxe/hatchet/sickle/scythe... etc gathering tools is at best smelted for the 1kg or less iron.

Seen 10% speed pickaxe rune case, it's great but normal, unless rare to keep enchant, this is still quite low value item, unless it's gather+speed maxed or we have some sort of rune improvement, either way to upgrade currently attached runes, option to only once update a rune or some kind of manual way to affect the item and make it slightly better(long term dream to make rune-fantastics, just opening crafting options that way besides pure rng rolling and expanding the mountains of fragments)

Some sort of crafting around all this will be beneficial, with some cost so things do not become crazy. One easy way will be to rng with priest-shattering and make or break items by attaching a rune or requiring hq like 90-95 and nuking ql on failure to ql1. Frustrating and time consuming.. but pretty fine overall with significant time investment.. you wont consider doing it nonstop because of fatigue, etc to imp hyper high several times for just every item.

 

Extracting could be 100 or 50 or less % chance, and always result in ql1 rune, this way only high SD players(few) will be able to utilize them, also such runes could be somehow marked so they have HIGH chance to fail, easy comes - easy goes.. in other words, while it keeps this kind of rng play into endgame. Same thing I propose for color runes - some to have it, destruction of the tool as option to extract such rune, have it being terrible chance to use.. but it's something and will allow some player customization; alternative atm is "wasting" rather rare and usually mostly needed adamantine to make rng color runes(rarely resulting desired color range).

Just a thought.

 

Could something be done about "nonsense" runes like "improving chance" on beer steins(like old pottery issue), or tools with gathering runes like file(improve-only tools, not possible to create or gather with such) but such tools receive "gather-specific" runes at the moment, makes more sense to have low tier misc runes like keeping enchants, easier to cast/imp or w/e, I personally put no value to that if the item itself is lacking -10% damage or +10% speed, or +5% speed.. it's mostly pain to enchant for the priest with the way runes and enchants align and dispell order issues.

Edited by Finnn

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I understand you want to focus your rune loadouts into things that are meta, such as a shovel or pick only being useful if it has a 10% gather rune. I understand how that can be frustrating for an end game player / min maxer. 

 

However, while I understand this would make the skill more viable for you, I don't agree with the general philosophy that would result in.

 

I've sorta glossed over this as balancing in this thread but a more full explanation seems warranted.

The primary purpose of the rune and cast roll system is that it allows solo and or casual players access to runes and casts on tools without using the market. However for replayability It also allows the possibility of creating something that is better than the best loadout that is creatable by standard means. It is not designed to be a way for end game players to reliably generate another tier of item.

The idea of rune extraction only being possible by very end game players also falls into this issue. It would just disappoint everyone who has not pan filled tens of thousands of times to grind SD. It also creates a sort of rich get richer scheme, further separating and granting more power to high level players. We should generally strive to avoid making the market gatekeeping worse than it is.

 

Aside from that, As a player myself, I hear you. I understand there are frustrations and we might still make adjustments. But I'm against the general idea of using this to be a reliable way to raise the tool meta and or to cater to end game players specifically. I'm saying this as an end game player myself with very high level arch/rest who is largely driven by selling stuff on the market. I will personally continue to do arch in the hopes of creating over meta tools. But in the mean time I'm getting tons of other rewards which make the effort generally worth it.

 

It's easy to lose sight of how overpowered this skill already is by focusing on the rune output. Besides the possibility of creating the best tools in the entire game (which by itself is insane) the benefits are:

  • This skill is among the easier rare generators ( Now even better given better iron and steel odds! )
  • It gives you unique to this skill statue fragments which you can enjoy or sell on the market
  • It gives you special wood types ( Now with Planks! )
  • It gives you moon metal fragments ( Now at twice the rate as before! )
  • You get a chance of treasure maps while investigating
  • You get collectable mini deed tokens ( Now with direction to their home! )
  • It's one of few skills where you get to do something other than sitting in your base grinding actions

As always I'm open to discussion but I have a difficult time justifying giving it any more power than it has. At a high level you can produce more value from this skill than most others.

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4 hours ago, jaytoo said:

I understand you want to focus your rune loadouts into things that are meta, such as a shovel or pick only being useful if it has a 10% gather rune. I understand how that can be frustrating for an end game player / min maxer. 

 

However, while I understand this would make the skill more viable for you, I don't agree with the general philosophy that would result in.

 

I've sorta glossed over this as balancing in this thread but a more full explanation seems warranted.

The primary purpose of the rune and cast roll system is that it allows solo and or casual players access to runes and casts on tools without using the market. However for replayability It also allows the possibility of creating something that is better than the best loadout that is creatable by standard means. It is not designed to be a way for end game players to reliably generate another tier of item.

The idea of rune extraction only being possible by very end game players also falls into this issue. It would just disappoint everyone who has not pan filled tens of thousands of times to grind SD. It also creates a sort of rich get richer scheme, further separating and granting more power to high level players. We should generally strive to avoid making the market gatekeeping worse than it is.

 

Aside from that, As a player myself, I hear you. I understand there are frustrations and we might still make adjustments. But I'm against the general idea of using this to be a reliable way to raise the tool meta and or to cater to end game players specifically. I'm saying this as an end game player myself with very high level arch/rest who is largely driven by selling stuff on the market. I will personally continue to do arch in the hopes of creating over meta tools. But in the mean time I'm getting tons of other rewards which make the effort generally worth it.

 

It's easy to lose sight of how overpowered this skill already is by focusing on the rune output. Besides the possibility of creating the best tools in the entire game (which by itself is insane) the benefits are:

  • This skill is among the easier rare generators ( Now even better given better iron and steel odds! )
  • It gives you unique to this skill statue fragments which you can enjoy or sell on the market
  • It gives you special wood types ( Now with Planks! )
  • It gives you moon metal fragments ( Now at twice the rate as before! )
  • You get a chance of treasure maps while investigating
  • You get collectable mini deed tokens ( Now with direction to their home! )
  • It's one of few skills where you get to do something other than sitting in your base grinding actions

As always I'm open to discussion but I have a difficult time justifying giving it any more power than it has. At a high level you can produce more value from this skill than most others.

while I generally agree that archaeology is very powerful,  I disagree with some points, or my mindset isn't like that and that will never change. I don't like random generators i don't have control over, i like to slowly work on ultimate min-max end goal and that's why I play Wurm .

As for rare generation i kinda doubt that, easier rare generator is to get the thing that you want and spam creation on it. not all rare fragments you get turn to something useful or good.

Moonmetals, yet to be seen , but it seems more like unique fluke than something you can rely on as a feature, witch is fine.

Tokens, meh, nice to have, but still pain to store, and duplicates are still useless junk. I usually run just a few known deeds, so you can imagine how much duplicates i have. maybe even several collections of all metal types. I think i got around 5 moon metal deed tokens spending two days doing archaelogy, if their weight were reduced to lets say 0.1kg, would that 0.5kg moon metals i farmed and could use to imp my moon metal weapon or tool realy ruin the game for others? but whatever.

The biggest shame from all this story are Scavanger runes, those are so cool, but chance to get them on something usefull, or the tool you're gonna use is so low, i would kill to have chance to transfer those to my supreme meta tools no matter how small it is. And this is my main point of disagreement, these are another tier items, and it sucks its not customizable bit stuck on some shitty non iron tool, they serve no purpose like that. I'm not gonna stop using my supreme pickaxe cuz i got regular pickaxe with scavanger rune, and why should i be depleted of such feature with all my skill?

 

Also, i still dislike lack of propper decay free storage option for storing and sorting frags

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Pottery items still have the nonsense runes, I thought I read something about removing benefits for improvement from pottery items, am I wrong?

Quote

A kitchen utensil used primarily to measure the volume of liquid ingredients such as milk.
You check the wheel on the bottom and it indicates the volume is set to 80g.
You can barely make out the signature of its maker, 'Fi.n'.
A steel rune of Jackal has been attached, so it will reduce decay taken (10%)
A seryll rune of Libila has been attached, so it will increase chance to resist shattering when being enchanted (5%) and reduce the quality change when repairing damage (5%)
A copper rune of Vynora has been attached, so it will have a higher chance to be successfully improved (7.5%)
 

that's measuring jug btw, ql34

 

planter, pottery item

Quote

[20:01:12] A clay planter hardened by fire. You can barely make out the signature of its maker, '.in.'. Ql: 47.04007, Dam: 0.0.
[20:01:12] A tin rune of Libila has been attached, so it will increase the chance of increasing rarity when improved (5%) and have a higher chance to be successfully improved (5%)
[20:01:12] A steel rune of Fo has been attached, so it will reduce decay taken (5%) and reduce damage taken (5%)

 

roasting dish, pottery

Quote

[20:03:47] A clay roasting dish hardened by fire.
[20:03:47] You can barely make out the signature of its maker, 'F.nn'.
[20:03:47] A copper rune of Jackal has been attached, so it will have a higher chance to be successfully improved (5%) and reduce the decay taken of items inside (5%)
[20:03:47] A copper rune of Vynora has been attached, so it will have a higher chance to be successfully improved (7.5%)

 

Edited by Finnn

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