Airships

[Spacy 659]

Anybody do any of the map quests on xan?  Have to find your way up a mountain yet?  I would like to suggest the addition of airships to the game to assist in this.

 

Small Airship / Dirigible - holds the player + 1 and is about the same as a Small Row Boat in terms of speed, cargo, etc.  Construction would be 30 cloth tailoring - and would be something like 2 seats, 2 keel sections (to start the construction), 20 hull planks, 10 ropes, 25 tar, and 50 cloth squares.  It can be deflated and takes slightly more than 1 large crate of cargo on a large cart/wagon/ship.  It takes a few minutes to inflate and deflate.  

 

Medium Airship / Blimp - hold the player + 3, cargo about 5 rafts (2 large crates perhaps).  Construction would be 50 cloth tailoring, with comparable mats.  Faster the less cargo, max speed about 16 or so with a good tailwind.  Packed up takes about 5 crates worth of cargo out of a ship / wagon.

 

Large Airship / Zeppelin - holds the player + 5, cargo about 5 large crates.  Construction about 70 cloth tailoring, with comparable mats.  Think wagon of the sky, but slower than a regular wagon and with less cargo.  Slowest of all the airships - say max speed of 12 with gale force tailwinds, 6 or so with headwinds.  Packed up takes about 10 crates worth of cargo out of a ship / wagon.  

 

Although they can be used in place of boats for server crossings, their slow speed should be a major drawback.  Horses, carts and wagons should be preferred on land as they can carry more and go faster.  The benefit is that they can go up and down so if you are trying to get up a mountain, or across a ridge line, you can do so.  Larger sizes are for folks who live up on top of mountains.  Slower, but can carry cargo.  PVP wise, they should be able to be damaged by other players arrows.  Players should take falling damage, and cargo falls to the ground.    Off deed they should take decay quickly, and should not be repairable or imp-able (aka tents).  

[Sheffie 1,120]

I think they would have to be either hot air balloons, or completely magical in their buoyancy.

If the former, they'd need a firebox and you'd have to burn fuel to keep them aloft.

If the latter, there's no reason why they couldn't have sails and be genuine ships of the air.

[Zachariah 736]

I would love this to be a thing. Especially is it was like Sheffie said where it is basically a flying ship in the sky. However, I'm wondering what it would do to the game. I like the idea of it being just for travel and not for cargo. that way its not totally replacing boats. You would still need to sail it would just make player travel a bit faster. 

[Zexos 468]

I love blimps so yes please

[wipeout 1,355]

Just remember wurm is a pseudo 2d game we got the illusion of 3d but its in fact 2 sets of 2d surfaces and until a couple of years ago anything as simple as a stone wall would block vertical travel(nothing was funnier then seeing a gm zooming through the sky only to be stopped by a random stone wall or a house) and I'm not sure on the state of which wall object still has infinite height walls at this point but the game wasn't really designed for height changes like that but it would be interesting to have mechanics like this granted id prefer if we go the route of airships to make them more useful then 5 man+5 crate.

The thing with an airship is that even if we strap multiple hot air balloons together technically speaking we would want to design something that is useful even if their speed is slower then a wagon at max size being able to carry more yet require more effort to get started before take off and being anchor them while they are floating and consuming fuel would be nice mechanics to have as well.

Like being able to carry 20 crates up a mountain or bigger as a cargo version of it that only allows for 2 people would be nice but knowing the style of wurm I doubt they will ever make it in as it is 1 of those suggestions that pops up every single year and never gets attention

[Tpikol 1,057]

im not sure how i feel about the whole thing but if it did happen i think this would deserve its own skill, even if it required high cloth tailoring to make some of the parts and like @wipeoutsaid i think it would be better if they had more defined roles than ships, if you want it to be 3 models make one an easier to make personal transport, one a dedicated passenger transport and the other one cargo and no passengers.

[Ulost 144]

+1 to this if you cannot fly over other deeds. Otherwise scrap the idea, too much work.

[Karrde 339]

Imho Im all for actual flying mobs and uniques. Dragons would be tougher, and archery would come back in a big way imho. Perhaps even smaller stuff like falconry.

 

Flying for players would open a can of wurms. Granted we already have flying GMs, and they have several restrictions in place due to past and perceived abuses.

 

Glitching abuses are possible, theres already been issues with people jumping from cliffs to get past fences and writ walls.

 

Granted pvp security concerns can be handled various ways, such as improved siege weapons and magic turrets on pvp along with NPC guards getting ranged abilities. Perhaps even NPC manning nearby ballista (chain-cranked rapid fire with gravity fed bolt clips... hey the Romans actually fielded these).

Limited range before some fuel or gas is needed. Perhaps a very rare resource of some kind from say Jackal or wherever.

 

Overall player flying would be a massive gameplay shift and would require alot of time and thought involved in just the planning, let alone actual implementation.

 

Granted if done right, flying can be awesome.

Edited July 20, 2022 by Karrde

[Katrat 2,296]

19 hours ago, Sheffie said:

I think they would have to be either hot air balloons, or completely magical in their buoyancy.

If the former, they'd need a firebox and you'd have to burn fuel to keep them aloft.

If the latter, there's no reason why they couldn't have sails and be genuine ships of the air.

I agree. Weight would definitely be a factor and without the involvement of helium airships would have to be magically held aloft. Perhaps pixie dust?

 

4 hours ago, Karrde said:

Imho Im all for actual flying mobs and uniques. Dragons would be tougher, and archery would come back in a big way imho. Perhaps even smaller stuff like falconry.

I would love to see a flying dragon. It's makes little sense they are permanently grounded when they have the wings to fly. And it really would give archery a massive boost.

[wipeout 1,355]

5 hours ago, Karrde said:

Granted pvp security concerns can be handled various ways, such as improved siege weapons and magic turrets on pvp along with NPC guards getting ranged abilities. Perhaps even NPC manning nearby ballista (chain-cranked rapid fire with gravity fed bolt clips... hey the Romans actually fielded these).

Limited range before some fuel or gas is needed. Perhaps a very rare resource of some kind from say Jackal or wherever.

What pvp concerns would there be honestly? Going over dirt walls? Flying directly to the token? Draining a token takes time and rushing straight into the enemy deed if there are defenders is a death sentence as 1 you are now stuck(Simply make it so that you cant embark onto flying contraptions during combat) and 2 a drain takes time giving people ample opportunity to run over and bash your head in.
If you drop down anywhere else you will most likely get stuck and die as well.
It would be a nice way to transport people around yes which would lead to more group pvp battles with faster resupply and the likes but thats about it, a properly setup deed is already as safe as it would be plus we do have archery towers already and rift contraptions that can serve as AA weaponry with some tweaks

[Etherdrifter 2,517]

Such a change would likely lead to the destruction of my home (I live atop a mountain, with a carefully guarded passage up, and a carefully protected forest at the peak) - there would be nothing to stop it becoming a "dead land" mess if this were implemented.  Indeed, mountain tops would become prime real estate and likely drama centers.

 

However, +1 from me - flight would open up a new way to explore wurm that outweighs a few players getting shafted.

 

Wind should be a major factor impacting speed - going with the wind should outstrip a rowboat, but going against it should be worse than walking.

 

It also needs to be a high level skill - a very high mind logic (40+) to pilot these craft would help make it something to work towards - they're much more complex than a cart or ship!  Add in a fuel requirement, and you've suddenly got a way to travel that isn't "point in direction and afk".

[FallenKnight 114]

Yea please so i can drain enemy deed without destroying their walls

[Huserx 189]

I feel like this would be difficult to implement. Perhaps an easier solution to the stated problem is something that affects the players ability to climb.

For example a yellow potion like substance that makes us into rams who can traverse steeper terrain for a limited time frame.

 

As for mountain dwelling hermits treasure hunts have already had me up various mountains I never would have visited before that cat is out of the bag already in my opinion.

 

 

[Karrde 339]

22 hours ago, wipeout said:

What pvp concerns would there be honestly? Going over dirt walls? Flying directly to the token? Draining a token takes time and rushing straight into the enemy deed if there are defenders is a death sentence as 1 you are now stuck(Simply make it so that you cant embark onto flying contraptions during combat) and 2 a drain takes time giving people ample opportunity to run over and bash your head in.
If you drop down anywhere else you will most likely get stuck and die as well.
It would be a nice way to transport people around yes which would lead to more group pvp battles with faster resupply and the likes but thats about it, a properly setup deed is already as safe as it would be plus we do have archery towers already and rift contraptions that can serve as AA weaponry with some tweaks

 

Those are the very concerns. The game balance, for what exists, was never designed with taking flying into account. Even archery towers was a late weak addition... with the current gameplay.

 

The number of exploited breakins using cliff jumping over the years also underlined such.

 

As I stated before, there needs to be changes to current content in addition to more. Hopefully any flying implementation is well thought out and tested beforehand. *coughs*

 

And one doesnt even have to attack... There mere act of a GM flying over a pvp deed is tightly watched. Reconnaissance is a powerful tool in any struggle.

[wipeout 1,355]

1 hour ago, Karrde said:

 

Those are the very concerns. The game balance, for what exists, was never designed with taking flying into account. Even archery towers was a late weak addition... with the current gameplay.

 

The number of exploited breakins using cliff jumping over the years also underlined such.

 

As I stated before, there needs to be changes to current content in addition to more. Hopefully any flying implementation is well thought out and tested beforehand. *coughs*

 

And one doesnt even have to attack... There mere act of a GM flying over a pvp deed is tightly watched. Reconnaissance is a powerful tool in any struggle.

Well I might be biased coming from the fact I live on a deed where our main ongoing project is creating more and taller walls surrounding our deed(It is a royal pain in the ass to get in and out honestly) but an airship flying into the deed to get to our token pit at the suggested travel speed would give anyone online ample time to hide in the cave next to the token and the moment they land at the token to jump on them and murder those people so all you need to do is disallow embarking onto an airship during combat add some archery towers and other towers around the token pit and your fine as guard+templars+archery towers+rift towers+ the odd person here and there would make it impossible to drain honestly, this would be the case as well with any pvp deed with a proper setup secure token.
So all I see is they need to disallow embark during combat so not that much of a concern really.
Sure archery towers are weak but imagine if they targeted the airship and did damage to them just like those towers up on your most outer wall then any walls going in as well and good luck falling to your death

As for reconnaissance that really isn't a big deal given how many dam spy alts still roam around no matter if you play nfi or sfi like "oh no you saw that we got 6 sets of moats around our deed oh no" 

But the game isn't really balanced to take anything into account anyway it is a big hot mess and air combat would be fun addition just imagine someone shows up with a few airships full of people and then you and your village take flight with your own ones and start to archer each other or try to ram each other so that you can clash swords, find an opening on the others airship and jump on there and start to hit them with swords hoping to get a kill before they notice you jumped on.
All kinds of fun ideas but alas it most likely wont ever happen.

[Sheffie 1,120]

I imagine a balloon-based airship would be spectacularly vulnerable to any kind of ranged attack. One arrow is going to cause a steady loss of buoyancy that will cause the ship to sink eventually.

 

I would guess that they would be useless in PvP.

[Katrat 2,296]

19 hours ago, Sheffie said:

I imagine a balloon-based airship would be spectacularly vulnerable to any kind of ranged attack. One arrow is going to cause a steady loss of buoyancy that will cause the ship to sink eventually.

 

I would guess that they would be useless in PvP.

I agree one arrow should logically destroy it's buoyancy. Though I have seen a player shoot a chicken with a ton of arrows and it still didn't die. lol Wogic.

Edited July 22, 2022 by Katrat

[Etherdrifter 2,517]

I mean, why not just disable airships for PvP servers?  Unable to craft them on the server, unable to fly them to the server as "a strong wind pushes you back".

 

Some PvE only content would be welcome!

[TheZvir 28]

+1 I believe I can fly......

[Ahsesino 20]

On 7/19/2022 at 8:20 PM, Spacy said:

Anybody do any of the map quests on xan?  Have to find your way up a mountain yet?  I would like to suggest the addition of airships to the game to assist in this.

 

Small Airship / Dirigible - holds the player + 1 and is about the same as a Small Row Boat in terms of speed, cargo, etc.  Construction would be 30 cloth tailoring - and would be something like 2 seats, 2 keel sections (to start the construction), 20 hull planks, 10 ropes, 25 tar, and 50 cloth squares.  It can be deflated and takes slightly more than 1 large crate of cargo on a large cart/wagon/ship.  It takes a few minutes to inflate and deflate.  

 

Medium Airship / Blimp - hold the player + 3, cargo about 5 rafts (2 large crates perhaps).  Construction would be 50 cloth tailoring, with comparable mats.  Faster the less cargo, max speed about 16 or so with a good tailwind.  Packed up takes about 5 crates worth of cargo out of a ship / wagon.

 

Large Airship / Zeppelin - holds the player + 5, cargo about 5 large crates.  Construction about 70 cloth tailoring, with comparable mats.  Think wagon of the sky, but slower than a regular wagon and with less cargo.  Slowest of all the airships - say max speed of 12 with gale force tailwinds, 6 or so with headwinds.  Packed up takes about 10 crates worth of cargo out of a ship / wagon.  

 

Although they can be used in place of boats for server crossings, their slow speed should be a major drawback.  Horses, carts and wagons should be preferred on land as they can carry more and go faster.  The benefit is that they can go up and down so if you are trying to get up a mountain, or across a ridge line, you can do so.  Larger sizes are for folks who live up on top of mountains.  Slower, but can carry cargo.  PVP wise, they should be able to be damaged by other players arrows.  Players should take falling damage, and cargo falls to the ground.    Off deed they should take decay quickly, and should not be repairable or imp-able (aka tents).  

Dont forget the gun powder addition to make bombs and drop them for the balloons on players I mean mobs sorry...

 

[Ecrir 887]

On 7/20/2022 at 1:02 PM, Ulost said:

+1 to this if you cannot fly over other deeds. Otherwise scrap the idea, too much work.

 

flying over deeds actually isn't even the issue, it's landing on deeds that is. So why not just add a landing permission to deeds so only people with permission can land while above a deed?

Perhaps similarly also require the airship to be at least X tiles away from any structures when you want to land, that too should help prevent certain issues. Something like 5-6 tiles might be sufficient already, without it being so large that it gets in the way.

Edited August 29, 2022 by Ecrir

[Soleil 47]

only if they make it so we can walk around on ships!

then we can have that on airships too 😁

[Mowglia 190]

Not airships, that's just wrong in Wurm. Balloons would work though, and we probably have the necessary bits to build them already.

 

They should go over deeds on PvE servers, but not be able to land on them (unless permissions), and be banned outright on PvP servers.

 

Also they should only go in the direction of the wind, cos like, it's a balloon not a helicopter. So getting somewhere in particular would likely take a bit of planning.

 

Finally, since the only way we have to power a balloon is hot air, you'd need to keep the burner going to fly, and snuff it to descend. And obviously there should always be a risk of the balloon catching fire whereupon the toon likely (but not always) plunges to a fiery death.