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Aeris

Safety pen: Replacement for "rift pens"

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Safety pen: Replacement for "rift pens"

I'd like to see the addition of an easily assembled and easily removable "safety pen".

I'm going to describe the suggestion as if it's an already existing item, to make it easier to visualize.

 

 

What is a Safety pen?

A safety pen is a temporary structure that doesn't need to be put on flat ground. Upon being finished it is automatically locked and open to the entire server. It's always open to everyone, to prevent the pens from being abused for anything other than a safe space during rifts.

 

What is the purpose of a Safety pen?

To allow people a space to take shelter in during an ongoing rift.

 

How big is a Safety pen?

The safety pens come in four different sizes: 2x2, 2x3, 3x3 and 3x5.

 

Materials

They use 1 shaft, 1 plank and 1 small nails for each fence section. That means that the different pen sizes use 8, 10, 12 and 16 respectively of each material.

 

How are they built?

With the use a tool (hammer, mallet, trowel) on a tile, selecting the option "Plan Safety pen". This will allow you to choose the size you want, and then create an outline showing the pen. In order to finish it you build by adding the necessary materials to one of the sections. Instead of building each section individually you build it as a unit - And once you've added all parts to it it will become a finished structure, rather than a set of fence sections.

 

How do you destroy a Safety pen?

Once you plan a Safety pen you will get a management option for it in the "Building" menu. From the menu you can choose to demolish it.

 

What happens if it is not destroyed?

The Safety pen is designed to last for the duration of a rift, with some leeway for planning and delays; 36 hours after the pen is finished it will disappear.

 

Does the ground need to be flat for a Safety pen?

It does not. You can place it on any slope below 40.

 

How does the Safety pen affect the terrain?

It doesn't. Once it goes away it will leave the area as it was before. Keeping people safe is one of its main purposes, the other is to provide a pen that does not leave a footprint after the rift is over.

 

 

 

Some backstory

People make pens at the site of an upcoming rift, in order to be helpful. They want to provide a safe space for other players to go afk or heal up inside. It's a really sweet and kind gesture towards the other rift-goers - In theory. In practice it has a lot of downsides, which for example include:

- Often making the terrain of that area unfixable

To add to that point it can be mentioned that when a rift opens up it creates rift bumps (patches of lowered and raised terrain), and in unfortunate cases they end up making slopes unridable. In even unluckier cases the leftover rift pens end up in a spot that would need to be fixed. Unluckier still is when more rifts spawn in roughly the same spot and the bumps become even worse.

- Making it harder to hunt

Sure, you can go around the pens when you are hunting, but sometimes (especially when the terrain overall is bad) you risk backing yourself up against a leftover pen. In some areas there are more than 1 pen, and the eccentric patterns you have to run in to avoid them can become daunting.

- Unsightly

The pens serve a very limited purpose, and that pen someone made for that specific rift now looks very out of place. And if you live or hunt nearby you better learn to love it, or spend hours bashing it, because it is now a permanent feature. People like to say ”it’s your choice if you want to bash it” and while that is true I don’t think anyone can deny that the servers are becoming progressively uglier with each rift pen added. It’s just not something I think we should consider a necessary feature of a rift.

- Getting rift mobs stuck

During one rift I attended one of the rift pens in the area actually caught the foot of the Warmaster. He ended up being stuck outside the rift zone, so no one got any credits for killing him. Pretty sure it also ended up actually killing people who were sheltering in the pen.

 

The kind gesture of creating a rift pen ultimately turns into a hassle, and the number of pens increases with every rift (more or less). It would be nice if people could continue creating pens at rifts without it leaving fences behind for years.

 

Disclaimer: This is a suggestion for the PvE servers.

Edited by Aeris
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Or you could plant some hedges which are cheaper and easy to remove with a hatchet (for non-priests). 

 

The only issues are the gate, which is usually wood pole - not really an issue to bash away quickly, and you'd need about 1--2 wild growth casts if the wurm gods of RNG hate you.

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Do we really need pens at rifts etc tho? Im mean, they are ok, but do we need them so much that we need to add an item for it?

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14 minutes ago, Nordlys said:

Do we really need pens at rifts etc tho? Im mean, they are ok, but do we need them so much that we need to add an item for it?

Personally I ride further away when things go sideways, and never use the pens. But that's a personal preference, and doesn't change the fact that some people do want rift pens.

 

The big thing here is that whether or not a new item is created for it there WILL be rift pens - Because people keep on creating them. Some 50x50 areas contain 7 former rift pens (some maybe more).

The choice isn't between Pen or No pen: The choice is between a pen that will go away within a couple of days or a pen that will stick around for a couple of years.

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To respond to above, it seems this is not necessarily a "rift-only" pen -- rather, a small, temporary (fast-decaying) pen that has the same property as a building where you can instantly "Demolish" the entire thing with a click of a button in a menu. Applicable in other cases beyond just rifts. Definitely an interesting idea :)

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I often go to rifts, and I usually just run away a bit to heal too, there is no need to go in the pen for that in *most* cases. But that's only a fraction of their utility.

  • The pens also provide a safe place to AFK while waiting for the rift to start.
  • They provide a safe space to go offline in if you can't travel back right after the rift. 
  • And in one case recently, to hide in during a server restart that happened halfway the rift.
  • It's a safe place to store extra mounts you find on the way in, to help players who don't have any or who need a spare.
  • It's also a good place to station a Fo priest alt, who can heal but who'd stand little chance against mobs. There are battle hardened Fo priests out there of course, but mine isn't.
  • If a champion targets your mount and cripples it and you can only hobble away slowly with a bunch of mobs trailing you, a pen can be a life saver for the both of you.
  • If you do lose your mount to a champion, you might just make it to the pen on foot.
  • If something comes up in real life and you need to quickly go AFK, the pen has your back.
  • Probably some things I forgot.

Pens save lives (and mounts), and while you could probably do the majority of rifts without really needing one, you never know beforehand when you really do need one. So we build them everywhere. A more temporary pen would be a great idea.

 

It'd also be useful at other events, for example slayings out in the wild. And to store your cart and horses overnight if you're on a multiday trip.

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You make a lot of really good points, Lisimba

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Not going to lie I've left random fences at rift sites before, most of us probably have. I do agree however its not ideal in the long term.

 

Maybe the safety pen could be an extension/upgrade to the existing Tent where you have a placeable Camp that gives you a tent, a campfire, and a roped off area to act as a pen - you can pickup and reuse this after. The problem is building fences are so cheap and so making this a more appealing option is difficult.

Edited by HawkHawk
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2 minutes ago, HawkHawk said:

The problem is building fences are so cheap and so making this a more appealing option is difficult.

 

If it's something I can deploy and pick up at will (and transport fairly easily), it'd appeal to me even if it cost considerably more than fences. The cost would be one time anyway, and being able to deploy in one go when on site (instead of having to build all the bits) has value. Plus not littering the landscape is nice, because old safety pens *are* an eyesore.

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I do see the need for pens at rifts. I generally ride away to heal, but sometimes I need the safety of a pen for any number of the reasons Lisimba mentioned above. That said, seeing fences still in place in the middle of the wilderness years after a rift is annoying AF. This solution is a great one, and if it would actually decay away 36-48 hrs after being built that'd be lovely. That said, I'd like to see the start of the decay delayed for 24 hrs if it was a reusable item and not restricted to just rift areas.

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All this post is screaming at me is "Get off my lawn!" 

 

I'm an avid hunter, and I travel a lot on cadence, I spend hours each week away from deed out hunting, and I've never been bothered by an old pen standing somewhere, raging about old rifts pens is the same as trying to rage about disbanded deeds where buildings have not decayed yet. At some point someone played there, now someone does not play there anymore, but their footprint was left in the world.

 

I think it comes down to a simple matter of if it bothers you, get rid of it yourself.

 

/me can't wait for the next rift to build 5x5 maze pens around the rift site

 

 

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-1 I agree with what Burdok have said actually.

 

A way to be passive aggressive towards those players that like to make rift pens for whatever reason they feel need them for. It's not needed and it's waste of development time to roll back pretty much the old house system into a fence. All it does is feathering thise players with "holier than thou" issues.

 

However, i would support a new fence type with dramatically increased off-deed decay

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23 minutes ago, Tor said:

However, i would support a new fence type with dramatically increased off-deed decay

 

This I can get behind! 

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You're of course entitled to your opinion, but your lack of concern doesn't remove that of those who share mine. If rifts are here to stay then I don't think it is a waste of development time to find a long term solution for the server littering they are causing. If rifts had been something that the devs had set a limited timeframe for, like "they'll be gone in 2 months time" then yes - But they're seemingly a permanent feature of the game and will cause a permanent and recurring issue.

 

I also don't think it's fair to promote your own opinion as the only one that's not based on feeling "holier than thou". You act as if the only way to think that is the correct one is your own, which is ironic considering you're trying to get me to back down by suggesting that I'm acting superior to others.

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Perhaps modifying something thats already ingame, and make loadable under certain criteria.

 

Spiked barriers and siege shields. Granted siege shields take some work to make, especially compared to slapping down a cheap fence.

 

Can even reward the placer points for any dmg the barriers do to Rift critters.

 

Imho this can be taken further with the siege weapons (ballista at the very least) and turrets. It would certainly mix things up a bit with Rift gameplay, which atm becomes monotonous very fast.

 

Additionally perhaps enable some Rift critters (club wielders) to bash the simpler rail fences.

Edited by Karrde
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21 hours ago, Aeris said:

You're of course entitled to your opinion, but your lack of concern doesn't remove that of those who share mine. If rifts are here to stay then I don't think it is a waste of development time to find a long term solution for the server littering they are causing. If rifts had been something that the devs had set a limited timeframe for, like "they'll be gone in 2 months time" then yes - But they're seemingly a permanent feature of the game and will cause a permanent and recurring issue.

 

I also don't think it's fair to promote your own opinion as the only one that's not based on feeling "holier than thou". You act as if the only way to think that is the correct one is your own, which is ironic considering you're trying to get me to back down by suggesting that I'm acting superior to others.

 

I took your post as rant: "Damn, this noobs keep making fences at rifts, why they can't play as good as me, because i do "this" and that's the right way to play, can you make disposable baby rails for them if they can't play as me then?". I apologize if i am wrong.

 

And thought you want opinion and suggestions about solution for "your" issues and not just exact yes or no on what you offering for solution. That's why i suggested something. I am more concerned about people being entitled to micromanage the way someone else is playing in a sandbox game then why someone build some fences around

 

 

 

 

 

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12 hours ago, Tor said:

I am more concerned about people being entitled to micromanage the way someone else is playing in a sandbox game

 

I can relate to this sentiment, because I often feel this way myself.  But in this particular case, I think the concern is misplaced.  OP went out of their way to be respectful of others' views and playstyles, to an extent that I rarely see on these forums.  The proposal was thoughtfully constructed to allow those who want to use pens to continue to do so, but in a way that also addresses the concerns of those who are dismayed by the effects that current rift pens have on the landscape.  Everybody wins.  It's a great idea imho.

Edited by Minnie
typo
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Yes +1 for the proposal. Another aspect: Frequent rift visitors and pen builders (like my deed's High Priestess of Fo :) ) have their manage gates window spammed with tons of past pen gates. I dont know whether there is a limit when the window blows up but it is tedious:

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+1 If this would keep players from damaging roads just for a flat pen.

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If only some part of the code can be rewritten and recycled to fix this issue...oh wait! IT CAN!

 

We actually have "summonable walls" from karma spells. Not sure how many people have ever used them since they are utterly pointless and one of them actively damages you over time if you are near it. 

 

But the code itself can be recycled to give players an option to : 1. Check if a rift is about to spawn.

 

2. If yes - summon a temporary rift pen made out of fast decaying walls that last only 24 hours. 

 

The karma walls that are summoned from spells are actually quite cool and have nice graphics that most people have never seen. 

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Reading through this I was thinking "A spell! A spell would solve this!" I was thinking a new 100+ favor spell (requiring linked priests) castable by priests of any faith only from the time a rift beam appears through the closing of the rift, lasting 24 hours after the rift closes and only in a specific zone outside the actual rift area up to 10 tiles away from the outer edge of the rift area. Size would be fixed. Not big enough? Cast again in another place to create another area. The ground texture could be temporarily changed to indicate the "protected zone" which would act just like a fenced area made entirely of locked gates, everyone having permission to pass. No bottlenecks at physical gates. Just reach the special ground texture area. Nothing to wait to decay. Nothing to deface the landscape and no materials needed. Something like this would completely eliminate the need for pens because it would serve ALL the functions that the pens that are made now currently serve.

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Bumping because it appears a version of this would be usable for the Holy Sites as well, since people have already started making huge fences around them (understandably no one wants to leave their 5fs priest alts out in the open). I'm guessing something similar will also happen once the goblin camps are launched.

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