Please allow us to choose our own reward from the treasure hunting goal

[elentari 2,660]

[20:42:49] Congratulations, you fully completed Hunting for Treasure and earned the reward: Treasure Hunter Title, 1h Sleep Bonus, 1 Unique Treasure Hunting Reward Roll

 

[20:42:57] A long and slender sword. It could be improved with a lump.

 

A 75 ql sabre....iron...

 

Some people get a glimmersteel cutlass from doing 45 ql maps...

 

So it seems that after all that work doing maps at the end of the day the game just rolls a die for you and gives you a casino reward.

 

Guys, can we please cut it out with the RNG please for the love of god?

 

Have a window pop up letting us choose our own rewards. Literally it's the reason why the rift redeem window was implemented so people could choose their own rewards instead of relying on RNG. 

 

I feel cheated to be honest.

 

Bitter, dissapointed, cheated and just annoyed beyond description that this is the reward. If I want to play casinos to get screwed I will not play wurm then. 

[Katrat 2,296]

Yeah that's not even close to worth the time and work put in. I could make the same ql sword myself and out of a better ql metal in one night. And I certainly wouldn't say the skin makes it worth it. And 1 sleep bonus? Really? Wow why bother.

[Rudie 1,479]

+1. The reward doesn't reflect the effort.

[Ajala 581]

How the hell have you completed this journal tier already?

[Coach 196]

If a reward isn't the one that i want, i will work harder to try to get the reward i want. But not something change the mechanic. 

If the reward is hard to get, it just makes it more valuable.

[Lovelie 419]

7 minutes ago, Coach said:

If the reward is hard to get, it just makes it more valuable.

 

The reward isn't hard or easy. It's random. That's what sucks.

 

+1

[Coach 196]

Just now, Lovelie said:

The reward isn't hard or easy. It's random. That's what sucks.

Random makes it hard to get compare to a reward chose by players.

[Lovelie 419]

  

1 hour ago, Coach said:

Random makes it hard to get compare to a reward chose by players.

No. Hard is when you have to work a lot, do difficult tasks, put in a lot of time and effort, or other similar things. 

 

Randomly getting a crappy prize or randomly getting a really amazing prize is not hard. It isn't easy. It is lucky.

 

 

Adding to that... Look at this Journal Entry we are talking about. Imagine either how many dozens or hundreds of hours you must spend to get all of the required treasure maps by yourself, which already takes luck in itself. Or you can purchase all the maps, but that isn't cheap either. And then the time, effort, (for fighting the monsters) the skill, and again partly luck it takes to finish the maps themselves. Do you really think it's not "hard"? Is that time effort and luck really worth a mediocre iron sword -- meanwhile someone can do 1 map and get a moonmetal weapon just because they are lucky?

Edited June 28, 2022 by Lovelie

[Coach 196]

Imagine u can only get one item from five items. A a adamantine cutlass, a glimmersteel cutlass, a iron cutlass, a seryll cutlass, a a steel cutlass. Ur goal is to get the glimmersteel cutlass. 
There is only 20% to get the the glimmersteel cutlass in the current mechanic.
The mechanic that OP suggest is people can choose one items from the five items, that's 100% to get the the glimmersteel cutlass.
U probably have to work more to get the glimmersteel cutlass under the current mechanic compare to what OP suggested. IDK may be work more to have silvers to trade with others. Or make more alts?
 

Edited June 28, 2022 by Coach

[Decafon 4]

8 minutes ago, Coach said:

Imagine u can only get one item from five items. A a adamantine cutlass, a glimmersteel cutlass, a iron cutlass, a seryll cutlass, a a steel cutlass. Ur goal is to get the glimmersteel cutlass. 
There is only 20% to get the the glimmersteel cutlass in the current mechanic.
The mechanic that OP suggest is people can choose one items from the five items, that's 100% to get the the glimmersteel cutlass.
U probably have to work more to get the glimmersteel cutlass under the current mechanic compare to what OP suggested. IDK may be work more to have silvers to trade with others. Or make more alts?
 

Well the problem as I see it is you can't really work harder when it's a one-time reward. There's nothing one can do to affect the outcome of the reward you get from the journal goal, which is the issue we're talking about, right?

 

You can do more maps during or after that goal to get other rewards, which is well and good being random--and should be! But for a one-time reward, to have the possibility to get less in that reward than in a single step of the process to get there...feels kinda butts tbh.

[TheTrickster 2,284]

3 hours ago, Coach said:

If a reward isn't the one that i want, i will work harder to try to get the reward i want.

How, exactly? Can you reset your journal and start again?   And what makes you think working harder gives you a better chance at a better reward?  That isn't how random works.

[Rudie 1,479]

2 hours ago, Coach said:

Imagine u can only get one item from five items. A a adamantine cutlass, a glimmersteel cutlass, a iron cutlass, a seryll cutlass, a a steel cutlass. Ur goal is to get the glimmersteel cutlass. 
There is only 20% to get the the glimmersteel cutlass in the current mechanic.
The mechanic that OP suggest is people can choose one items from the five items, that's 100% to get the the glimmersteel cutlass.
U probably have to work more to get the glimmersteel cutlass under the current mechanic compare to what OP suggested. IDK may be work more to have silvers to trade with others. Or make more alts?
 

 

But what if I might want a Seryll Cutlass? Imagine you had to, as you say, make a new alt, you've just spent the last 3 weeks gathering up maps and just completed the final step of the last map, you click claim and get....the exact same thing you got last time. Would you be annoyed?

 

 

All of the items above are considered unique items.

Edited June 28, 2022 by Rudie

[Coach 196]

4 hours ago, Rudie said:

Imagine you had to, as you say, make a new alt, you've just spent the last 3 weeks gathering up maps and just completed the final step of the last map, you click claim and get....the exact same thing you got last time. Would you be annoyed?

Exactly guys. Make a new alt. More alts if u got no luck. Make more silvers. It just like the 2019 Christmas gift, one toon only can get one random gift from the tree. If u want more, make more silvers to premium another toon or buy the gift from others. 

It's a one time reward for one toon but it's two rewards for two toons. I know i may sound like a workaholic but i am probably not a workaholic. Word hard to get a valuable reward is satisfaction. 

Also the current mechanism create trades, some want a glimmersteel cutlass, some want a seryll cutlass, they exchange, sell or buy, make the trade chat more alive. Who need to trade with others if u can choose the reward by urself.

Edited June 28, 2022 by Coach

[elentari 2,660]

13 hours ago, Ajala said:

How the hell have you completed this journal tier already?

Grinding prayer / faith on my alt and constantly praying ever since the explo update dropped. I couldn't forage / botanize since that was bugged. 

 

I am not much of a digger or miner so praying was the only feasible option. Traded all the maps to my main. 

 

It wasn't easy since I still had to manually do maps and i put dozens of man hours into finishing them all and getting a chess set in the process. Even more dozens of hours praying to get difficult maps. 

 

All that work to get a crappy reward roll while someone else might get a 90 ql eyepatch or a 80 ql serryl cutlass. 

 

1 hour ago, Coach said:

Exactly guys. Make a new alt. More alts if u got no luck.

This is exactly the game design a lot of people have been complaining about for a decade. Oh the game sucks? Make more alts. 

 

How about we fix the game instead of encouraging alt spamming?

 

As I initially stated this can be fixed by simply adding a "reward window" similar to how we redeem rift points. After all getting this journal done is at least 100 + man hours IF YOU ARE INSANELY LUCKY. If not? Could be 200 or 400 hours. 

 

Do you think after so many hours of work the reward should be an skinned iron longsword? 

[Lovelie 419]

2 hours ago, Coach said:

 I know i may sound like a workaholic but i am probably not a workaholic. Word hard to get a valuable reward is satisfaction. 

Also the current mechanism create trades, some want a glimmersteel cutlass, some want a seryll cutlass, they exchange, sell or buy, make the trade chat more alive. Who need to trade with others if u can choose the reward by urself.

 

You must not understand the meaning of "hard work" and "luck" and how they are different.

I insist you go back and read this Journal again and try to imagine how many hundreds of hours of both luck AND hard work it takes to complete the whole entire thing -- which you can only finish once so it's not like you can "work harder". Whoever finishes this entire Journal already worked very hard.

 

So you're telling me that someone who did hundreds of hours of work didn't work hard therefore doesn't deserve a good reward? OP got a mediocre iron longsword after 100 to 400 hours. 

And you're telling me that someone who finished only one, single map in a few hours deserves a better reward just because they got it? You can finish one medium map in 1 or 2 hours and you can get a moonmetal weapon if you're lucky.

 

No, you can't "work harder" by making more alts and doing the journal again and again to guarantee a good reward. Because it is LUCK BASED and NOT hard-work-based, you could theoretically make 100 alts and work for 100x400 more hours and get a crappy reward every. single. time.

Edited June 28, 2022 by Lovelie

[Coach 196]

49 minutes ago, elentari said:

This is exactly the game design a lot of people have been complaining about for a decade. Oh the game sucks? Make more alts. 

How about we fix the game instead of encouraging alt spamming?

If u don't like making alts, there are another options, one of them is making more silvers.

2 hours ago, Coach said:

Exactly guys. Make a new alt. More alts if u got no luck. Make more silvers.

Work hard to make more silvers to buy the glimmersteel cutlass on trade chat.

[Sheffie 1,120]

A choice of reward would fix the problem, which is that some players will get very valuable rewards and others will not, even though all players will put in about the same amount of effort.  (This is rather like saying, "Instead of spending Marks at the reward store and choosing what you want, everyone just gets Gift Packs. Some people will get tomes and others sleep powder. If you're not happy with what you get, just buy more premium time or silvers at the shop!")

 

One option for the journal reward would be to let players choose between the rolls currently available, similarly to how you can choose an affinity or a moon metal lump when completing other journal tiers. It might be necessary to remove the most valuable items from the list and/or increase the desirability of others, e.g. by increasing their quality or quantity.

 

Another potential solution would be to give out skins rather than actual swords. This would allow people to use their preferred weapons and there would be no issues about materials.

[Seriphina 1,223]

5 hours ago, Coach said:

If u don't like making alts, there are another options, one of them is making more silvers.

Work hard to make more silvers to buy the glimmersteel cutlass on trade chat.

So your solution, instead of addressing the inequality in the reward system, is pay to win?

 

No.

 

I love Sheffy's solution of a skin as a reward. Then it can be whatever we wish, FAIR and EQUAL.

Edited June 28, 2022 by Seriphina

[Zakiah 66]

Hmm, did you work to gather and complete the maps because there was a promise of a Journal reward, and once you finish the journal you aren't going to bother with maps anymore? Or, perhaps, did you work to gather and complete the maps because you wanted the adventure or the treasure from the maps, and would have done so regardless of whether there was a journal entry for it or not?

I suspect the overwhelming majority of people, if answering honestly, would choose the latter. The rest of them are probably the ones selling their maps.

I'm curious whether the journal entry rewards were meant as a draw for the treasure hunt mini-adventures, or whether they were meant as a bonus above and beyond the rewards from the treasure hunts. Making another guess, I would wager on the latter given the hype surrounding the update, but I'm fully prepared to lose on that one.


That being said, if there is a possibility of a moon metal weapon vs a normal metal weapon, that seems a tad unbalanced to leave to RNG, since the moon metal varieties are generally significantly better and much less common. They shouldn't be in the same either-or category in a RNG reward, IMO.

I also like the idea of a skin as a reward instead of an item. Providing items that players can craft devalues those items that are being crafted and sold.

[Coach 196]

4 hours ago, Seriphina said:

So your solution, instead of addressing the inequality in the reward system, is pay to win?

 

19 hours ago, Coach said:

Imagine u can only get one item from five items. A a adamantine cutlass, a glimmersteel cutlass, a cutlass, a seryll cutlass, a a steel cutlass. Ur goal is to get the glimmersteel cutlass. 
There is only 20% to get the the glimmersteel cutlass in the current mechanic.

Under the current mechanic, 20% for adamantine, 20% for glimmersteel, 20% for iron, 20% for seryll, 20% for steel. The chances of getting them are equal and fair.

I know u were saying the effort and time that u put may not be equal to the reward that u want, but other people have the same fair chance to experience that too. 

The inequality that u mentioned is good for the economy:

13 hours ago, Coach said:

Also the current mechanism create trades, some want a glimmersteel cutlass, some want a seryll cutlass, they exchange, sell or buy, make the trade chat more alive. Who need to trade with others if u can choose the reward by urself.

Person A get a glimmersteel cutlass and loss silvers, while Person B loss a glimmersteel cutlass and gain silvers. Is that called pay to win?

Edited June 29, 2022 by Coach

[elentari 2,660]

3 hours ago, Coach said:

The inequality that u mentioned is good for the economy:

 

 

I'll say this as politely as I can. I do not play Wurm to experience the same inequality or economic disparity I see and live through RL. 

I play Wurm to escape it. 

 

So I'll phrase this as academically and stoically as I can muster this morning. Screw prioritizing the economy over people's fun. It's a game. It's designed to be fun not to be an economics simulator 2022. 

 

Plenty of people are having an awful time now due to everything that's happening  at a global scale, inflation, etc. 

 

I do NOT NEED Wurm to be a reminder of that. And I find defending such "unequal systems" morally reprehensive in a video game that ultimately is supposed to serve as a medium to a player's enjoyment, not to a player's bitterness. Nowhere on the steam page you'll see the phrase "Pay to play Wurm Online so you can enjoy the lovely inequality of RNG economics". 

Edited June 29, 2022 by elentari

[Coach 196]

Sigh, now i know why there is a market for wurm unlimited.

[Katrat 2,296]

11 hours ago, elentari said:

 

I'll say this as politely as I can. I do not play Wurm to experience the same inequality or economic disparity I see and live through RL. 

I play Wurm to escape it. 

Many people do, myself included. A game should be an enjoyment and/or a distraction not an added frustration. Who wants to pay to be annoyed and frustrated? I can say in this economy no one in there right mind wants to play a game that forces them to pay and pay and pay to get anywhere. This is already one of the things that drives new players away when they hit the non premium skill ceiling on a "Free to play" game. And No many of us do Not want to spam alts. I don't even have a priest alt because it's far less immersive to have to switch between toons all the time. And honestly many of us are lucky to have the time to play one toon let alone dozens. In my opinion spamming alts and throwing silver at it is not harder work. It's not even playing a game anymore it's simply buying the win. There is no even playing field there. It's like playing Monopoly with a player that gives themself all the money at the start then wonders why no one else wants to play.

Edited June 29, 2022 by Katrat