Sign in to follow this  
Zuelatak

Rename "decent" in mission progress to "30+QL" or "decent 30+QL"

Recommended Posts

There are a lot of things in this game that are overly complicated, and not easily deducible. Thanks to the help of CA Help or the Wiki answering this question everytime one of the sacrifice missions comes up. Otherwise, people would have to randomly sacrifice items of varying qualities until the mission progressed. Which is most likely what the the first of us had to do. I can understand the question "What is a mission?", but having to ask why one particular works over another?  I would request that the "decent" text be replaced with "30+QL" or at least "decent 30+QL". This would also allow for higher tier missions where it could be 50+QL, 70+QL, or even 90+QL. Without the need of saying above average, highly above average, and excellent. Which would create even more confusion for New Players. 

 

Benefits:

  • CA members don't have to answer the same frequent question over, and over, and over
  • New Players don't need to ask for help in order to figure out how to progress these missions
    • I also know people who are too anxious to ask for help, and will often just struggle instead which sucks
  • EXTREMELY easy fix. Only text needs to be changed. No real coding needs to be done. Just one line of code from "decent" to "30+QL" or at least "decent 30+QL"

 

 

Note to the devs: If you implement my suggestion or others please credit us in the changelogs. It will not only show that you are listening, but will encourage those of us who took the time to post our suggestions, defend them, and find support for them, to continue doing so. Also, people should just always credit their sources. 

Edited by Zuelatak
  • Like 17

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Totally agreed. If anything, I'd actually support we compile a list of things that are annoyingly vague for no other purpose than force us to ask in CA help or use the wiki when a simple in game description can fix the issue instantly. 

 

Another confusing issue is how MOI's work both for coins / rarity to get treasure maps since apparently they are 2 entirely different systems and mechanics that use the same in game description "You have a moment of inspiration...". 

 

This has led to exhaustive explanations to people when the exploration update hit. 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

At least replace 'Decent' with 'Decent (QL 30+)' .  That way the text isn't just number-crunching, but allows the unfamiliar player more of a clue for what's meant.

 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Have to admit i asked what decent is on the CA Help when i was a newbie, simply just want a shortcut.
But can see someone see the word "decent" as a fun unsolved puzzle game. They can have fun to find out what decent actually mean by trying to sacrifice different QL of items to solve the puzzle by themself.
 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Coach said:

They can have fun to find out what decent actually mean by trying to sacrifice different QL of items to solve the puzzle by themself.
 

You have some weird definition of fun, no offence. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, elentari said:

You have some weird definition of fun, no offence. 

Someone can have fun to play a puzzle game, depends on how the person feel about it.
I didn't find it fun to sacrifice different QL of items to solve the puzzle, that's why i asked the CA help for shortcut.

But i can't deny someone may find it fun. It's just a simple guessing game even have a prize from the mission. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 minutes ago, Coach said:

Someone can have fun to play a puzzle game, depends on how the person feel about it.
I didn't find it fun to sacrifice different QL of items to solve the puzzle, that's why i asked the CA help for shortcut.

But i can't deny someone may find it fun. It's just a simple guessing game even have a prize from the mission. 

 

It's possible, yes. But I figure that the vast majority of people wouldn't find this particular guessing game fun.

 

I suspect that the current wording just exists as an attempt to be more immersive, and isn't intentionally a puzzle.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
22 minutes ago, Lisimba said:

I suspect that the current wording just exists as an attempt to be more immersive, and isn't intentionally a puzzle.

Now we are playing a guessing game of why the decent word is put in the first place instead of using 30ql.😄 May i have the answer from the creator🤔. I want a shortcut this time too.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, Lisimba said:

I suspect that the current wording just exists as an attempt to be more immersive

I agree with this. However, this is a videogame and not everything should be immersive / realistic. Especially something apart of your UI (User Interface) that is absolutely not immersive to any degree. 

 

15 hours ago, Coach said:

But can see someone see the word "decent" as a fun unsolved puzzle game. They can have fun to find out what decent actually mean by trying to sacrifice different QL of items to solve the puzzle by themself.

Understandable! This is a game of discovery after all. However, not all mystery is good and when a majority of players just ask CA Help about it I no longer think it's worth being a mystery. At that point now it's just a hinderance for the many and a small enjoyment for the few.

16 hours ago, Tristanc said:

At least replace 'Decent' with 'Decent (QL 30+)' .

I'm totally okay with that too. As long as "30+ QL" is mentioned somewhere then I'm happy. 

 

 

 

16 hours ago, elentari said:

If anything, I'd actually support we compile a list of things that are annoyingly vague for no other purpose than force us to ask in CA help or use the wiki when a simple in game description can fix the issue instantly.

Sounds like a great idea! But, lets make a new thread topic if we're gonna do that. I'd like to keep the main discussion about this specific change. 

16 hours ago, elentari said:

Another confusing issue is how MOI's work both for coins / rarity to get treasure maps since apparently they are 2 entirely different systems and mechanics that use the same in game description "You have a moment of inspiration...". 

 

This has led to exhaustive explanations to people when the exploration update hit. 

Also something that I would prefer be a different thread rather than being discussed here.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Zuelatak said:

Understandable! This is a game of discovery after all.

Totally, no spoiler for the kids no matter they like it or not. We are bunch of spoiled kids. 😳

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Coach said:

Totally, no spoiler for the kids no matter they like it or not. We are bunch of spoiled kids. 😳

You left out the 2nd half of my response >.< 

1 hour ago, Zuelatak said:

However, not all mystery is good and when a majority of players just ask CA Help about it I no longer think it's worth being a mystery. At that point now it's just a hinderance for the many and a small enjoyment for the few.

 

I think this is something that should absolutely be spoiled.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Let me elaborate. No spoiler for the kids no matter they like it(discover the mystery by themself) or not(who asked CA Help). Doesn't matter there are more people who asked CA Help(not enjoy) than the people want to discover it by themself(enjoy) or not because all kids should not get the spoiler. It sounds a bit harsh to the kids but ya. It fix the problem to keep answer the same frequent question in a different way. Got to learn it by urself, kids. Maybe only give u some hints if it's too hard. Well, some people consider hints as spoilers as well.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, Coach said:

Let me elaborate. No spoiler for the kids no matter they like it(discover the mystery by themself) or not(who asked CA Help). Doesn't matter there are more people who asked CA Help(not enjoy) than the people want to discover it by themself(enjoy) or not because all kids should not get the spoiler. It sounds a bit harsh to the kids but ya. It fix the problem to keep answer the same frequent question in a different way. Got to learn it by urself, kids. Maybe only give u some hints if it's too hard. Well, some people consider hints as spoilers as well.

IDK where kids came into this, but if a

 

small portion of the community gets a small amount of enjoyment from randomly sacrificing different qualities of goods until they figure out what "decent" means

compared to a

large amount of the community getting a large amount of annoyance that just spam CA Help with the question over and over

 

Then I'd say we should cater to the large community in this situation. The gain massively outweighs the loss of those few players who strongly cared about solving the mystery.

 

Not to mention that the people who would be upset about it being spoiled are probably those who already solved the mystery. If people join the game and the mystery is already solved then it wasn't a mystery and no new player will ever know to even complain about the change. 

Edited by Zuelatak

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A bunch of experience players take away one of the little fun from wurm online for small amount of newbie, Is there a compensation for the newcomer newbie.

Edited by Coach
change compensatory to compensation

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I tend to side with Coach here. In fact, it may take a time until a newcomer detects missions, and their utility, altogether. From then on, it may take a bit until she stumbles over "decent". At that point, a question at CA help is not really a hard barrier, or just finding it out. There were unnerving missions in the past, e.g. creating a tapestry without saying which one.

 

It seems that the devs already heeded some of the more valid complaints. Still there is the "sheet" which could be cotton ofc as the most simple and convenient, several metals, alloys, theoretically even moon metals (though alloys or MM never were to my experience). I don't really mind those puzzles if they are not overdoing (MM sheet would certainly be too much).

 

I recall that reading the "decent" stuff in mission to asking, not even in CA help, but a more experienced neighbour, took exactly 1 question, one answer, and settled once and forever. So this possibly is a lengthy discussion about a non problem. Leave it as it is, or change it. So what.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

someone had to tell me what the heck "Decent" means

 

and then later I had to burden/clutter CA help to ask what the heck "Decent" means yet again because i forgot

 

so +1

it's not a "puzzle" to me. "puzzles" are more like finding the location of structures and avatars. obfuscating what "Decent" means is just an annoyance.

 

 

On 6/26/2022 at 6:48 AM, Tristanc said:

At least replace 'Decent' with 'Decent (QL 30+)' .

 

this is a good idea to keep the "immersive" text and remove the annoyance ^

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, Coach said:

A bunch of experience players take away one of the little fun from wurm online for small amount of newbie, Is there a compensatory for the newcomer newbie.

I can't understand what you're trying to say here, so I don't know how to respond.

 

8 hours ago, Ekcin said:

took exactly 1 question, one answer, and settled once and forever.

One question, and one answer that should not be needed period. Literally every question is one question, and one answer. . .

 

You personally may ask the question once, and hear the answer once. But CA has to deal with the same question and provide the same answer for every single player that asks it in CA Help. That is boring, tedious, and going to cause burnout for those that wish to help other players learn the game. 

 

8 hours ago, Ekcin said:

So this possibly is a lengthy discussion about a non problem. Leave it as it is, or change it. So what.

The problem is that it's an unnecessary question along with several others in this game that all add up together to making this game unnecessarily confusing. If you don't care if it's changed or not then why are you even participating in the discussion? 

 

 

 

 

9 hours ago, Ekcin said:

it may take a time until a newcomer detects missions, and their utility, altogether.

Another problem of it's own. Mission Progress should be default on honestly, but that's a topic for another thread as well. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 6/26/2022 at 12:48 PM, Tristanc said:

At least replace 'Decent' with 'Decent (QL 30+)'

 

This would be a fine solution.

 

16 hours ago, Ekcin said:

it may take a time until a newcomer detects missions, and their utility, altogether.

 

It's silly how long it took me to find out that messages like "Fo's followers now have the attention of the whatever spirits" meant that there was a new mission up. Missions in general have really bad discoverability.

 

Edited by Lisimba
Something got messed up.
  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 6/28/2022 at 12:48 AM, Lisimba said:

It's silly how long it took me to find out that messages like "Fo's followers now have the attention of the whatever spirits" meant that there was a new mission up. Missions in general have really bad discoverability.

Lol I didn't even know that. I was told it had to do with the Valrei minigame for PvP and meant nothing for PvE.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
25 minutes ago, Zuelatak said:

Lol I didn't even know that. I was told it had to do with the Valrei minigame for PvP and meant nothing for PvE.

 

This is half true. Missions done on the Epic cluster benefit gods on Valrei, so these messages in turn are related to Valrei, at least over there.

 

On PvE the missions don't affect Valrei though. It's just for karma and sleep bonus.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Players could be taught to do a minimal amount of research on wurmpedia for the activities they are doing, and find answers to common questions. It is the "give a man a fish ..." proverb. This would also satisfy your listed benefits, without changing any coding.

open wurmpedia > enter Missions > scroll down to Types of Missions sections >
Sacrifice normal item: Sacrifice X amount of a type of item at an altar. These items must be "Decent", which is 30ql or higher.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 6/29/2022 at 10:48 AM, Soluna said:

Players could be taught to do a minimal amount of research on wurmpedia for the activities they are doing, and find answers to common questions.

Who's going to teach them? 🤔 Even if you consider it a "minimal" amount of research it could still be zero research needed. It is an unneeded common question. 

 

On 6/29/2022 at 10:48 AM, Soluna said:

without changing any coding.

There's not really any coding being changed. It's just text. They literally go to a line that says "decent" and change it to "decent (30+ QL)" and this suggestion is done. A MASSIVELY smaller amount of time to fix than the collective of time wasted for all the people who have to ask this question and find an answer. Unless you have no faith in the devs this change should have 0 room for new bugs or problems.

 

On 6/29/2022 at 10:48 AM, Soluna said:

open wurmpedia > enter Missions > scroll down to Types of Missions sections >
Sacrifice normal item: Sacrifice X amount of a type of item at an altar. These items must be "Decent", which is 30ql or higher.

You're thinking too small picture.

 

10 seconds of time that is accumulated across all the players in this game. I assume we can agree at least 1,000 players have passed through this game, and probably asked the question. That's 10,000 seconds or ~2.7hrs of wasted time that could be prevented within a 10 second change to the ingame text. Not to mention that again most people ask CA Help which is now also wasting other player's times to help those who are wasting their time asking the question. 

 

I can maybe understand disagreeing with a change because it would take the devs several hours to fix and wanting that energy to be guided elsewhere, but we're talking a 10 second change.


@Soluna What is the reason you want players to have to search for the answer through a 3rd party wiki made by players that isn't even 100% accurate rather than just removing the need to find the answer? What is gained? What do you feel is lost by this change? 🤔

Edited by Zuelatak
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Obviously some people are harder to teach than others.

I easily pointed out that the 100% accurate answer to your original problem was contained in the wiki. If you had spent your own 10 seconds looking it up, you would have seen it there too. Whether you then realized there was no need to create this suggestion, or learned the lesson that looking up questions on the wiki teaches people how to find their own answers, is up to you. Frequently, staff answers questions in CA Help by providing the link to the wiki. I see the picture, but your response suggests that you aren't even in the gallery. Instead of being combative in your responses and appearing to take constructive criticism so personally, take a moment instead to reflect on the feedback people are trying to give you. You appear to be very passionate about trying to help others, I have tried to do the same here. "If you give a man a fish, you feed him for a day. If you teach a man how to fish, you feed him for life."

I am not going to get into a back and forth with you about this or any further issues. I chose to not respond to you in a demeaning giant font like you have done to me. I wish you the best of luck in life, in wurm, and in all your endeavors!

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this