adolphus

Heavier Penalties / Harder requirements to change religions

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1 hour ago, adolphus said:

The decision was handed over to annuile who had to make the call, which I felt was unfair for her since she already had many other things weighing her mind and she has already done so much to make the event happen. Has any of the switchers thought for the event organiser having to make such a decision, and the resulting consequences that is unfairly placed on them? I highly doubt it.

 

This is not accurate.  Nobody 'asked' Annuile what she wanted.  People started talking about casting it, she stated she would prefer it to not be cast at the impalong.  

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Posted (edited)

il just say this to try to descalate things since we are talking past each other anyway. i didnt even know which side you were on until you responded to me so  then i responded to you as the self appointed representative of the people  who were against the casting.

 

1 hour ago, Sinnjinn said:

 You call me a liar without any evidence, even anecdotal.  Nice.  I could be wrong, it's impossible to know these things for sure since there is no way to know for sure when a Rite spell is ready, but I try to stay informed of when they're ready cause I want the free sleep bonus and try to make sure I'm ready for them.

it is not imposible to know because there used to be a lot of drama around people with armies of priests (skren just to name one) doing that rites as soon as they could, screwing over everybody who wasnt online at the time of the cast (which is one of the reasons now we have 24 hours to get the bonuses.) ever is a long long time in wurm. Edit: yes to be very clear about my absurd priorities, in this i care more about you saying "ever" than anything else.

 

1 hour ago, Sinnjinn said:

Please post a log of anything I said that could even be REMOTLY called a threat.  The whole conversation is posted above, and Ann even posted herself.  But keep making stuff up

i have no idea what you did or didn't say i was talking about the situation in general and asking someone you may or may not have threatened if what you did made them feel threatened is not a good way to find out what they really think.

 

 

Quote

This is not accurate.  Nobody 'asked' Annuile what she wanted.  People started talking about casting it, she stated she would prefer it to not be cast at the impalong.

im pretty sure she said that after the shitstorm on freedom chat.

Edited by Tpikol

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44 minutes ago, Sinnjinn said:

 

This is not accurate.  Nobody 'asked' Annuile what she wanted.  People started talking about casting it, she stated she would prefer it to not be cast at the impalong.  

Let me rephrase. Her stating her preference would essentially be the call for others to honor, as she is the host of the impalong. With respect to her, the people present would honor her wishes to not cast the rite. If she had requested for the rite to be cast, it would lead to a different outcome. While she did try to make it as "selfish" of a request, it inevitably became the call regardless.

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7 hours ago, Tpikol said:
14 hours ago, Sinnjinn said:

I don't think a rite spell has ever been cast THE DAY it become ready.

who is making up a bunch of lies here?

It does not seem to me that Sinnjinn is stating more than an observation I can back up from SFI, only would modify insofar that it may happen (depends on timezone), but 1 to up to 5 days is fairly usual.

 

I found Aleck's statement hilarious, like an alcoholic begging to lock the bottles away 😎. And it seems that the decision of Annuile had nothing to do with bullying, it is sad when her decision is abused to fuel the feud. Further on I found it shocking how that throwaway forum char Adolphus smeared Baeowuf, a dev just stating what is game mechanics and what not.

 

Could you guys not just grow up and accept different playstyles? And, technically spoken, I fail to see any faith swap nerf really addressing the issues complained about. There will always be people asking for different dates for an event, and there may be dissent about, be it a global spell, a slaying, whatever. Get a bit more generous and less petty.

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24 minutes ago, adolphus said:

Let me rephrase. Her stating her preference would essentially be the call for others to honor, as she is the host of the impalong. With respect to her, the people present would honor her wishes to not cast the rite. If she had requested for the rite to be cast, it would lead to a different outcome. While she did try to make it as "selfish" of a request, it inevitably became the call regardless.

 

I agree.  But you statement reference that it was "unfair' to put additional pressure on her to make the decision.  And while I whole heartedly agree that would have been unfair, with all the stress she was already under in just running the impalong, that's not what happeend.  That was the purpose of my response.

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1 hour ago, Tpikol said:

it is not imposible to know because there used to be a lot of drama around people with armies of priests (skren just to name one) doing that rites as soon as they could, screwing over everybody who wasnt online at the time of the cast (which is one of the reasons now we have 24 hours to get the bonuses.) ever is a long long time in wurm. Edit: yes to be very clear about my absurd priorities, in this i care more about you saying "ever" than anything else.

 

Again, my apologies. This discussion is about NFI, and I was talking NFI only.  I've never played on SFI, and don't know about the way the game was beyond 2 years ago.  I should have qualified my statement.

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9 minutes ago, Ekcin said:

Baeowuf, a dev just stating what is game mechanics and what not.

if you get nothing else out of this topic at least learn the diference betwen a dev and a chat moderator please.

 that wasnt whoever adolphus is talking to him on freedom chat, it was me. he just posted the logs.

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Posted (edited)

So let me summarize what matters for organizing global spells:

  • First of all, as many priests not yet having the journal goal for Benediction as possible should be included.
  • At least one priest with highest available channeling needed for maximum participation.
  • For fairness, no "ninja casting". Though it is not explicitly forbidden, it is frowned upon and could count as griefing.

That said, it should be clear that priests are the ones who should have the say in the first place and should reach agreements about the event. Followers may be heard with their desires too, of course.

  • Timezones, and weekends vs. work days may play a role, and be a base for demands to shift the date or time of the event.
  • The infamous "faith swap for SB" is a side show. It is up to the organizing priests whether or not heeding such demands.
  • All drama about is moot. There is no point to mess with mechanics for that.
Edited by Ekcin

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Posted (edited)
3 minutes ago, Ekcin said:

good things are good, bad things are bad.

+1

 

3 minutes ago, Ekcin said:

All drama about is moot. There is no point to mess with mechanics for that.

drama is the reason half of wurms mechanics are what they are now.

 

for me own sanity im leaving this topic.

Edited by Tpikol

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1 hour ago, Ecrir said:

Why not just focus on putting restrictions on when you can benefit from the Rite spell? Like, make it so you need to have been following a certain religion for X amount of time before you can benefit from said spell? That way it's pretty simple and straightforward without potentially impacting other things.

 

Now this, this sounds like progress. 

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22 minutes ago, Ekcin said:

"Further on I found it shocking how that throwaway forum char Adolphus smeared Baeowuf, a dev just stating what is game mechanics and what not."

 

Please enlighten me on what I did to smear baeowuf? All I did was to put in the chat logs of the the event that happened where a commotion arose regarding the rite issue. I did nothing more than that. I have nothing against baeowuf nor did I state my opinions on what he said.

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1 minute ago, adolphus said:

Please enlighten me on what I did to smear baeowuf? All I did was to put in the chat logs of the the event that happened where a commotion arose regarding the rite issue. I did nothing more than that. I have nothing against baeowuf nor did I state my opinions on what he said.

You are right, and I apologize. It was not you who blamed a staff member (and the impalong organizer) of illegitimately putting pressure onto those wanting a global cast earlier. My bad.

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2 hours ago, Ecrir said:

Why not just focus on putting restrictions on when you can benefit from the Rite spell? Like, make it so you need to have been following a certain religion for X amount of time before you can benefit from said spell? That way it's pretty simple and straightforward without potentially impacting other things.


This is just adding an additional step to the penalties of when you switch religions, aka increasing the time penalty. There is almost no difference between increasing swap cooldowns from 7 days to 14 days VS keeping cooldowns at 7 days and implementing a 7 day requirement before receiving bonus from rite (I assume you are considering the rite).

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1 minute ago, Ekcin said:

You are right, and I apologize. It was not you who blamed a staff member (and the impalong organizer) of illegitimately putting pressure onto those wanting a global cast earlier. My bad.

alright, apology accepted. It was but a misunderstanding.

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ok, just now while taking a shower (isn't that where all good ideas are generated?) I might have come up with a good long-term solution.

 

First, lets agree that the problem isn't really that I want to spread the casts out to maximize sleep bonus, and Bores wants to cast it right away to maximize sleep bonus....the problem is that all the damn rites are ready at the same time.  Right?  I mean if they were spaced out naturally everybody would get what they want, and there would be no squabbles.

 

So lets change it

 

Here is my suggestion.  Vyn, being the most popular god probably has their Rite charge faster then the others.  So let them go ahead and cast ASAP.  (but please still post a schedule for 24 to 48 hours out so people can join and/or burn any existing SB).  This will hopefully allow the Vyn Rite to naturally pull away from the Mag and Fo Rite.  Lib isn't really an issue, their Rite charges way behind anyway.  Without the Vyn Rite to worry about, scheduling the Mag and Fo Rites won't be much of an issue I think.  The idea here is that by the 3rd hopefully 4th Rite from now, the Vyn rite will BE a week or more ahead of everything else.  Yes, those of us who swap faiths will miss out on some opportunities for free sleep bonus, but it's a small price to pay if we can fix it long-term.  I'm leery to 'hold' the Mag and Fo Rites for any length of time to accelerate the process, but we can certainly be 'lax' in our casting of them.   

 

Once we have successfully untangled the Vyn Rite from the others, we can re-visit how tangled the Mag and Fo rites are and come up with a similar plan, if necessary.

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And i suggest if there's changes to be made, do it only on NFI

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my suggestion is not to change any mechanics, my idea is to raise the cost by at least double, so swappers will have to figure out if its worth the swap or not. in this way swappers can still swap but i think it would deter the rampant swapping happening now.

Also i think it would stomp out most of the arguments as most people would be more willing to wait a few days because of the cost. the only real thing id worry about is the rise of people stealing and not posting about rites. that i got nothing for

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1 minute ago, azuleslight said:

my suggestion is not to change any mechanics, my idea is to raise the cost by at least double, so swappers will have to figure out if its worth the swap or not. in this way swappers can still swap but i think it would deter the rampant swapping happening now.

Also i think it would stomp out most of the arguments as most people would be more willing to wait a few days because of the cost. the only real thing id worry about is the rise of people stealing and not posting about rites. that i got nothing for

im sorry im a missing something here? double the cost from 0 to 2 times 0? i dont understand what you mean.

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24 minutes ago, Tor said:

And i suggest if there's changes to be made, do it only on NFI

-100 No more code split. Rather the existing one being fixed.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Sinnjinn said:

ok, just now while taking a shower (isn't that where all good ideas are generated?) I might have come up with a good long-term solution.

 

First, lets agree that the problem isn't really that I want to spread the casts out to maximize sleep bonus, and Bores wants to cast it right away to maximize sleep bonus....the problem is that all the damn rites are ready at the same time.  Right?  I mean if they were spaced out naturally everybody would get what they want, and there would be no squabbles.

 

So lets change it

 

Here is my suggestion.  Vyn, being the most popular god probably has their Rite charge faster then the others.  So let them go ahead and cast ASAP.  (but please still post a schedule for 24 to 48 hours out so people can join and/or burn any existing SB).  This will hopefully allow the Vyn Rite to naturally pull away from the Mag and Fo Rite.  Lib isn't really an issue, their Rite charges way behind anyway.  Without the Vyn Rite to worry about, scheduling the Mag and Fo Rites won't be much of an issue I think.  The idea here is that by the 3rd hopefully 4th Rite from now, the Vyn rite will BE a week or more ahead of everything else.  Yes, those of us who swap faiths will miss out on some opportunities for free sleep bonus, but it's a small price to pay if we can fix it long-term.  I'm leery to 'hold' the Mag and Fo Rites for any length of time to accelerate the process, but we can certainly be 'lax' in our casting of them.   

 

Once we have successfully untangled the Vyn Rite from the others, we can re-visit how tangled the Mag and Fo rites are and come up with a similar plan, if necessary.

I don't think it is a viable situation seeing as it was just a matter of religion switchers missing out 5 hours of sleep bonus for the benefit of those who are participating at the event to have that bonus during the event. If they were willing to compromise on that to begin with, this wouldn't have been an issue. Seeing as they are unwilling to compromise and raise a ruckus, then something needs to be done to the mechanic to prevent it from happening instead. You are still only suggesting a temporary solution, where it is still somewhat trying to time rites for the benefit of religion switchers while making sure that those that play the game without leveraging on this mechanic do not have anything to complain. Eventually, there will come another time of this happening, and there will be another ruckus happening between switchers and non-switchers.

While I understand that my suggestion causes those who are leveraging on this mechanic to no longer get more sleep powder than the game already gives, and the game is particularly stingy with how it is obtained, it removes a benefit that was provided to people who wanted to leverage off a unfair mechanic that could not part with one instance of that benefit for the sake of others who could. It was one instance of 5-hour sleep bonus compared to the many that you are already getting by switching. If anything, this suggestion serves to fix a mechanic to operate properly so that nobody can benefit from it anymore, so all are placed on an equal playing ground.

 

Essentially the short story is this, you weren't happy with the amount of candy you were getting from daddy game mechanic and refused to let your siblings get any if you didn't get it once, even though you already have been given much more than all your other siblings. As punishment, you shall only get the candy when everyone else gets it. Seems to you like a punishment, but in actual fact is just what it was supposed to be.

Edit: Clarification, and suggestion scenario illustration

I did not mean for the last paragraph to sound condescending, although no matter how I read it it the "daddy" part of it sounds like a mockery, but I wanted to paint a picture where the person who was getting an unfair advantage is being forced to be on the same playing field as the rest.

Let me illustrate what could happen from say a 3 month cooldown from religion change - People would mostly be worshipping vyn for the skill bonus, and would eventually change to another religion should they feel that their bonuses are better, or stick with vyn given her rate of rites. When rites are available, there wouldn't be much need of consideration, just a heads up 48 hours before and collating of casters prior to the cast. Rites can overlap without fear that there is a group of people that need to be considered with precise allocation and there wouldn't be detriments from overlapping rites as followers/priests from those groups can claim their own rite's SB within 24 hours. When an event such as impalong comes by, say Mag has just performed a rite 2 days before, when Vyn's rite is available, there are priests available to perform it and cast it for the are already onsite, and it would just be a celebration for the rite being available rather than a conflict that ensues where the two groups of switchers and non-switchers clash to debate on when the rite should be held. Say Fo's rites are ready shortly after, no hesitation, rush to cast, so that everyone at the impalong gets the benefit. You may argue about those that are offline or may not be participating in the impalong not being aware of the likelihood of a rite happening - organisers can give a heads up that based on the saccs and actions done during the impalong, there could be rites that might ensue from the impalong, and for people to keep that in mind so that they can be ready to burn their sleep bonuses and claim or have to miss out on their 5 hour sleep bonus this one time that the event is going on (impalongs aren't common after all). There is no need for too much planning how the timings and spacings between rites need to be calculated, rather just planning for the group of casters to be available and present and met up at a location for the cast to happen. It simplifies the problem and mitigates the argument by just simply making the game the way it was supposed to be played.

Edited by adolphus

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36 minutes ago, Ekcin said:

-100 No more code split. Rather the existing one being fixed.

i am 100% for that, but it's split already and they are treating it like separate game

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Let's get to the Elephant in the room.  Some players, in fact, do think they are entitled to dictate to other players.  It is that simple. They hide it behind the "benefit for the most", and so on.  Asking people to be reasonable and think of others is a very hollow platitude when a month or two ago, a group of priests discussed on Freedom chat casting the Vyn rite,  summoned other priests to participate, and actually cast the rite without permission.   All of them got messages from Sinnjinn banning them from all his unique slayings.  

 

This  captures the hidden attitude and the real problem.  As long as players believe they can, ... what is a good word...   I guess bully  other players well, you're going to have resentment.   I suspect that many people have been treated this way on some occasion or another and are so intimidated that they do not even post here or use another account.  Imagine, that I have to actually use another account to discuss this if I want to keep playing the game consequence free.      This is the real problem

 

 

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2 hours ago, Benediction said:

Let's get to the Elephant in the room.  Some players, in fact, do think they are entitled to dictate to other players.  It is that simple. They hide it behind the "benefit for the most", and so on.  Asking people to be reasonable and think of others is a very hollow platitude when a month or two ago, a group of priests discussed on Freedom chat casting the Vyn rite,  summoned other priests to participate, and actually cast the rite without permission.   All of them got messages from Sinnjinn banning them from all his unique slayings.  

 

This  captures the hidden attitude and the real problem.  As long as players believe they can, ... what is a good word...   I guess bully  other players well, you're going to have resentment.   I suspect that many people have been treated this way on some occasion or another and are so intimidated that they do not even post here or use another account.  Imagine, that I have to actually use another account to discuss this if I want to keep playing the game consequence free.      This is the real problem

 

 

 

Need something stronger than a like for this

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Posted (edited)
20 hours ago, Burdok said:

Here we go again 🤣 I love NFI, so many dramas. Can someone please start the popcorn machine again, we're gonna need lots.

Love the dramas not only happen on NFI but also drag the SFI to get involved. Even if the GL chat are separated, the mechanic are still the same on both clusters. Guess they are somehow linked. Popcorn for SFI too made by the popcorn machine from NFI 👉👈😳. Good popcorn should be shared to everyone. Sharing is caring🤭. Could we eat popcorn together and hold hands?😊

Edited by Coach

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I wouldn't mind seeing the timer between converting faiths be like 2 weeks or something. I feel that would make the decision to follow a deity one more about the benefits of that deity, and not about if you can get sleep bonus.

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