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Keenan

Exploration: Part 1 - Public Testing!

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2 minutes ago, Finnn said:

doubt it... what I expected with "exploration" was basically... ability to travel to Jackal-server.. with new stuff.. and no regular building or deeds; possibly of making villages in the outpost kind of way.. but not by building them directly as we can currently.. finding spread around the land.. places with broken fencing/walls/buildings already in rough shape and rebuilding only them once you join something like a deed. or w/e permission system.. allowing you to work and patch up the found place; every few hours mobs doing swarm attacks maybe... just spawning and despawning to cause havoc where players are if they are in the wild and closer to bounties; all the troll/goblin/etc 'village' encounters similar to rift camps we have currently.. possibly new recipes to learn and bring back.. etc ..etc..

Going into such server with nothing... but having epic-kind of skilling, no skill transfer, but possibility to get back all you looted(just and only), gives you pure restart vibe.. and you have only the gear you make at that new place.. while able to get back with anything you get to find.

Maybe that was never the plan or rework of what ex team left was not much to do something like that, etc, idk, just my expectations were actual exploration and not archaeology with guard tower fishing

My brother in Christ, nothing which you have included here was ever even mentioned by the developer team. 

 

You played yourself. 

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5 minutes ago, Archaed said:

My brother in Christ, nothing which you have included here was ever even mentioned by the developer team. 

 

You played yourself. 

not your brother of none christ and so on..

but yea... I started with "doubt...", read

 

The comment above asked for what we expected and thought to be possible content... I expected more... and there were tons of suggestions in various places, A LOT OF GREAT SUGGESTIONS btw, but none of that made it, r.i.p.

nice troll provoke tho, 1 point to griffindor

 

I didn't "play myself", as mentioned somebody asked to share what we expected, it's all I did.. I expected actual content expansion, not just a mechanic on existing world, single mechanic, loot is wild and nobody seem to have ran the numbers what such rewards could cause.

I am dropping a lot of breadcrumbs. There's no other discussion for the mechanic, this is the only place and the only way I can help balance rewards and experience and I tried... I tried.

By all means, read before troll posting.

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Seems to just be treasure chest loot from elevation and defiance with some chess pieces thrown in that I'll get too many of and end up burning as forge fuel. How exciting.

Edited by Rudie

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While I did not participate in tests, it looks interesting. Sure, there may be bit of rework on the rewards, honing the ways how to trace. The combat part sounds great, the chessboard too, and the journal chapter, chasing lazy deed sitters and cavemen of their forges and out of their caves. Bit too much negativity imho.

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5 hours ago, TheTrickster said:

"Near" is not as near as you think.  I also had a tower "near" Warlander Playground and it was in the SW corner of that area, south of the lake.  I had another "near" Hear We Go Again and it was NW of the white patch on the map.  In that whole area between the spawn town and the lake I found at least half a dozen towers.  They are there, just hard to find.

 

Indeed, I finally found it pretty far away. Actually it is closer to a deed called "Dunnlandia" than to "Warlander Playground", so the parchment text is misleading.

Also, I was not aware that guard towers can be much closer to each other than 50 tiles on Test. My bad. :)

 

ugqOeU2.png

 

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15 hours ago, Katrat said:

All my excitement for this exploration addition has quickly faded into a "Wow they still don't get it" disappointment. From what I am seeing this just seems to be another chicken coup fiasco to me. Extra work for less reward does not make happy players. Pointless time wasting also does not a happy player make. And I foresee issues from players having to deal with the multitude of random holes that will be left behind. Where is the excitement? Where are the new encounters? Where is the "I solved the puzzle!" enjoyment? Where are the "Oh wow look what I found!" moments? 

 

I highly agree with what you said.

 

Also, I will admit I didn't take the time to go follow through completely with the "clue" scroll that I obtained after FINALLY finding where the first map I got took me (took me about 40 minutes to get to the clue location, just to be told to go find a guard tower, so I couldn't be bothered).

With that said, I'm gathering that the rewards as of now are just sleep powders and coin? Could anyone list all potential rewards as of now? I didn't see any direct information on this, but I may have overlooked it. Unless there's no real list as of now?

 

If the only thing we can potentially gain from discovering the treasure(s) is sleep powder, I see absolutely no point in bothering with it. Personally, I have little to no use for sleep powders, and end up selling them off (if I'm lucky enough to find a buyer). I'd love to see more variety of items, doesn't have to be expensive things, but it would be fun to actually get a handful of decorative items or materials of some sort for example. I just wanted to add a little opinion to this, since I was super excited for this update, but now I'm starting to feel hesitant.

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17 hours ago, Finnn said:

XD you will if you pinpoint the shortcut to make a few silvers and farm a few rare new drops while alternative is spending few hours home making bricks or some other boring chore,

what seems to be the trend is.. tending/gathering.. and for me wurm is mostly chat + random grind.. so while I spam improve+repair actions... I'll just have to rage, pause and go dig or mine like a madman or adopt a farmer's rake and tend a huge field to earn a few maps; balance to get into new content is not exactly present if you don't fit in specific bulk action type of playing

 

what I wonder is ...

@Keenanhave you guys recorded how many inspirations players get for a day or a week from the actions to which you plan to attach these maps, and run the numbers if that could somehow mess up the economy of the given rewards, the action count will go up as long spent time is worth the rewards

 

I have 7 chars. A crafter of everything almost, a hight chaneling vyn and a hight chaneling go.a mag priest and other 3 i dont curently use. I dont dig of farm for my silvers boy.

I do spam weapon blades and heads for my supreme weapon colection though.sell the rares once imped and enchanted

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Anyway.giving a direction like archaeology cache would be more usefull though

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I quite like the idea of collectible chess pieces, assuming they're not also craftable.

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10 minutes ago, Ajala said:

I quite like the idea of collectible chess pieces, assuming they're not also craftable.

will be fun to start of with but when you collected a all of them?

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16 minutes ago, Ajala said:

I quite like the idea of collectible chess pieces, assuming they're not also craftable.

 

Sadly they all seem to be birchwood. Change that. Birchwood chess pieces should drop most, oak least. Follow the difficulty in chopping the tree type. Only let walnut pieces fit a walnut board etc. Also allow pieces to turn rare+ now and again, Each rare+ piece attached to the board give a chance to turn the board (entire chess game) rare+.

 

That would turn many chesspieces into desirable items 

 

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5 hours ago, Ekcin said:

Bit too much negativity imho.

I dare say you can only really say that because

5 hours ago, Ekcin said:

I did not participate in tests

 

I went in really trying to be positive and find something enjoyable / rewarding and hopefully exploration-related.  I did not find any of that.  There is definitely potential for this to be good added content, even though not "exploration", but IMO it is heading too far in the direction of being a convoluted MOI pay-off.  Content does need a payoff, but the path needs to be engaging and this is not.

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I found that you can off-load your inventory dross into the treasure chest.  I completed my 3rd one, but my inventory was too full for me to take the chess pieces, gems, crystals, powder.  I dropped all the resource materials from the previous chests into the current one and then took the "precious" items.  I guess that means that chest still sits in the forest with a lot of resources.

 

Can anyone open that, or only the person who dug it?

 

Edit:  I think I grabbed an image of that last map.  Soooo, if these persist and are perm-free then there could be scope let others know where they are. 

 

Or... maybe they could be left sitting out in forest, so people who are, you know, exploring, could stumble upon them.

Edited by TheTrickster
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One thing that concerns me about the map clue: will the treasure map be based on the in-game map? If so, over time it will be harder to figure out how terrain landmarks relate to the map. If the treasure map is based on the current terrain, it will be harder to identify where to search in the first place. Otherwise, I think this has plenty of promise!

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I have never been on a test server. I was sure Keenan had greatly overestimated my ability to figure this out from what seemed like sparse instructions. However, Keenan knows what he is doing, because even I was able to figure this out and log on.  I spawned in to find dragon scale lying everywhere. What a world!  I put it on and then attempted to follow more directions.  I was able to make my skills amazing, and have tools and a horse.  I made the mistake of spawning my horse in town first, but given my experience with the hell of wurmperms, that was easy to work out. I started digging to make a farm but got a dirty casket right away and opened it. A treasure map!  Incomprehensible, but interesting. I started riding in a direction and was able to get right on top of the next clue. Another dirty casket!  I'm still looking for the next one.  It's far, and this map is even more obscure. I got a message suddenly about a carp that was fairly baffling while traveling. Not sure what that meant, but it amused me. 
It has been about 25 minutes, and this is what I have to say about all this.  Bad, Bad devs!  This will Eat My Life. This. Is. Fascinating. Noooo not the test server, though that is also fascinating.  The Exploration update is Amazing. But stop being so creative and delightful.  I have to eat and do laundry sometimes. Good holy pink potatoes this is Way too fun.

Further thoughts:  Very, fairly, etc are vague. But I get why that is the way it is.  It should be hard. Also, on the test server, its a breeze. There has been very difficult terrain involved with my treasure, but it's a non-issue on the test server where there aren't many mobs. On the real server, this could literally take weeks to find one novice treasure.  Those with expectations of things being faster will become disgruntled and ragey, because trying to decipher vague directional terms while dealing with a zoo of trolls and hellhounds will be Incredibly difficult. I hope folks can manage expectations a bit and realize that this is an activity in the game that could mean weeks of travel and much adventure. Likely that was intended. But for skillers looking for work-reward-repeat, this could be a huge challenge.

One final thing - that message that popped up about a carp...is that supposed to be what I'm thinking, what my invisible assistant is thinking, a mocking message from the Gods, or a ghost?  It is very unlike other wurm things, and will throw folks for a loop as it did me.

Edited by Nirav

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1 hour ago, Keridwyn said:

One thing that concerns me about the map clue: will the treasure map be based on the in-game map? If so, over time it will be harder to figure out how terrain landmarks relate to the map. If the treasure map is based on the current terrain, it will be harder to identify where to search in the first place. Otherwise, I think this has plenty of promise!

Aye...honestly I don't see how this can be done without using map dumps or player made maps.

 

The ingame map has....dissapointing resolution and detail and it creates an artificial difficulty because we'll have to either keep a chrome tab open during explo hunts or having to alt tab do an image software to look at a decent map dump to figure out where the next clue is. 

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2 hours ago, Keridwyn said:

One thing that concerns me about the map clue: will the treasure map be based on the in-game map? If so, over time it will be harder to figure out how terrain landmarks relate to the map. If the treasure map is based on the current terrain, it will be harder to identify where to search in the first place. Otherwise, I think this has plenty of promise!

It didn't look like it to me. It looked like it was based on the terrain map dump. 

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I have an idea for treasure!  Things we can't cook - food the devs make up that can't ever be found in recipes like Catfish Jerky, or Chestnut Puree, or Shrimpiie's Clam Surprise, and when you eat it, you get full bars and an affinity bonus that is pure random for 12 hours or so.  That would be kinda awesome I think. 

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I did few test runs.

 

The map seems unfit for testing the features: some terrains were made artificially high, clue maps are often not accurate (show water body that people already removed) or mostly clueless. The most effective way so far to hunt treasure on the map is moving around like a ping-pong ball and spam Examine the parchment... The interesting things about the Test map is sometimes you find some weird artifacts.

 

About the rewards: they are not very useful currently. Some guaranteed star gems (even low ql) or funny recipes could be nice (cf. on the Live servers, the only ways got get a fantastic recipe is to slap a lot of trolls and goblins).

 

Regarding the methods of obtaining the features: running around is fine, but digging and slapping creatures sound a little bit boring (and dangerous like some said). Have you thought about:

  • Treasures at sea that requires sailing and dredging, and/or fishing.
  • Integrating items that use lurker spells. I am quite enjoying doing missions occasionally use the lurker spell items, except it seems Lurker in Dark is nerfed (actions fail atm) for PvP reason (the nerf supposes to target Enemy player search, not creatures).
  • Integrating the Track skill, and possibly using some animals like dogs for the purpose etc.

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How long did it take to put together this update? It's a copycat and very old concept of go find loot and fight something to get it. Except wurm's version is tar and other crap as rewards and searching the land for guard towers/clues that is not at all exciting. 

 

In wurm, why is there such a struggle to introduce truly new and interesting mechanics and maybe just a little lore to make it all make sense. The suggestions section in forums is loaded with awesome ideas to expand this game more but it's completely ignored for bright ideas like this one. - "Hey, I know, we'll make players search for clues and at the end they fight something and get dumb rewards".  Original....

 

Like others have stated, the term "exploration" to me, meant something more, something more exciting than this..

 

If you're going with the same old boring video game thing of go find treasure, at least make it interesting and exciting!!!! New, exotic, worthwhile loot? Interesting lore and story behind it? Incorporation of a new skill or even an older one revamped? Something other than this very underwhelming same-old but dumb version of go find "treasure" that's actually mostly everyday items. Who masterminded this? Anyone on dev staff have imagination?

 

I was excited, now I'm completely disappointed. More of the same. Oh well.

Edited by MordosKull
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Digging for treasures should give tracking skill depending on map ql for difficulty

Edited by Vessel
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18 minutes ago, Vessel said:

Digging for treasures should give tracking skill depending on map ql for difficulty

why? currently there's nothing related to tracking with existing mechanic/s, unless you suggest to use tracking and not right clicking and reading messages as navigational method based on "tracks" left from the treasure guards checking clue spot, etc?

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48 minutes ago, Kyu said:

The map seems unfit for testing the features: some terrains were made artificially high, clue maps are often not accurate (show water body that people already removed) or mostly clueless. The most effective way so far to hunt treasure on the map is moving around like a ping-pong ball and spam Examine the parchment... The interesting things about the Test map is sometimes you find some weird artifacts.

 

Given the clue map generates when you open it, it's incredibly accurate. It literally only draws when you open it. 

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Okay, I was FINALLY able to get my first treasure with a rare (novice) map.

 

The good:

1. Exploring, yay! I do love exploring and finding new places on servers.

2. Treasure hunting! Exploring + Reward = Win to me

 

The bad: 

 

1. The hot and cold mechanic was incredibly frustrating. I hated doing it, but I ended up chopping down trees to help me narrow down the boundaries when I was within a stone's throw of the clue or treasure. Some cardinal directions would have been helpful (for example: you feel it's a stone's throw away to the east)

2. Willows. Willows everywhere! I love me some willows, but I couldn't see guard towers until I was literally on top of them. The immense amount of willows also made navigation difficult, and I had to rely on my compass a lot. (This beef is just a test server thing, though.)

3. The tedium. It took me three days to find all of the clues and the treasure. I started on Friday and was frustrated and bored stiff by Saturday, but I pressed on because I wanted to complete ONE map. Even being able to pimp out every single stat lost its novelty within 24 hours. I was bored and annoyed by the time I found the treasure. On the plus side, I was so relieved that it was over that I didn't really care what was in the treasure chest, so, well done there.

 

The ugly:

 

I'm visually impaired, and the font used for the text clues was pretty hard for me to read. I get that it's part of the aesthetic, but it's an annoying part of the aesthetic.

 

Additional suggestions: Please find a way to show where we are on the server map when we access it in-game. It's something I've wanted for quite a while, and many other games that I've played have it available. It might help to ease the frustration of treasure hunting, especially when one is surrounded by willow trees. 

 

Also, if everyone gets the same maps to the same locations, please refill the treasure boxes. The only thing more annoying than galavanting all over a server to track down a treasure would be finding an empty treasure box. Some people might enjoy the challenge of being the first to everything, but not everyone has the luxury of unlimited gaming time, visual acuity, or an ISP that doesn't throttle them at random times throughout the day. If it's going to be first come, only served, I'm not going to waste my limited time with it. 

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1 minute ago, LadyCygnet said:

Also, if everyone gets the same maps to the same locations, please refill the treasure boxes. The only thing more annoying than galavanting all over a server to track down a treasure would be finding an empty treasure box. Some people might enjoy the challenge of being the first to everything, but not everyone has the luxury of unlimited gaming time, visual acuity, or an ISP that doesn't throttle them at random times throughout the day. If it's going to be first come, only served, I'm not going to waste my limited time with it. 

Treasure isn't a resource anyone can take, each map generates it's own treasure, so don't worry about that. 

 

1 minute ago, LadyCygnet said:

I'm visually impaired, and the font used for the text clues was pretty hard for me to read. I get that it's part of the aesthetic, but it's an annoying part of the aesthetic.

 

THANK YOU, I want this too haha

 

1 minute ago, LadyCygnet said:

2. Willows. Willows everywhere! I love me some willows, but I couldn't see guard towers until I was literally on top of them. The immense amount of willows also made navigation difficult, and I had to rely on my compass a lot. (This beef is just a test server thing, though.)

3. The tedium. It took me three days to find all of the clues and the treasure. I started on Friday and was frustrated and bored stiff by Saturday, but I pressed on because I wanted to complete ONE map. Even being able to pimp out every single stat lost its novelty within 24 hours. I was bored and annoyed by the time I found the treasure. On the plus side, I was so relieved that it was over that I didn't really care what was in the treasure chest, so, well done there.

I had this issue too, but I feel it's a byproduct of the test server being as it is. Live servers will have much more recognisable terrain, and better roads to travel between places, so I'm hoping the tedium with travel won't be an issue

 

2 minutes ago, LadyCygnet said:

1. The hot and cold mechanic was incredibly frustrating. I hated doing it, but I ended up chopping down trees to help me narrow down the boundaries when I was within a stone's throw of the clue or treasure. Some cardinal directions would have been helpful (for example: you feel it's a stone's throw away to the east)

Honestly, I'd prefer the entire examine removed, and it made easier to find with the actual clue, it feels weird to disregard the clue mechanic completely and just examine the map. The direction would be more helpful to me than the distance too for sure. 

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