Muse

QoL - It's not you it's us - material Quality NOT skill.

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Posted (edited)

I just saw a newer player in CA Help who was confused by the following crafting error message, which went something like:

 

This is impossible, perhaps you are not skilled enough.

 

Someone told him to use a higher QL plank, and of course that worked.

 

Thus the error message saying his skill wasn't high enough did not tell the whole story, and so is misleading.

 

A better message could be:

 

At your current skill, the quality (QL) of the item you are adding needs to be higher.

 

This brings the player straight to the fastest solution to the problem - the plank quality which he can more quickly choose, rather than his skill, which he may feel he can not.

Edited by Muse
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Yet, at the same time that is perfectly correct reply.

If the player had higher skill, that low ql plank was going to be useful.

 

This is something we normally get used to, like.. using high ql plank and nail when making wagon at 40-45, whatever skill level it was.. using low ql just end up into lots of pain and wasted time.. if that is possible at all.

 

Some items are impossible to create with normal anvil, unless you're a super blacksmithing hero.. or randomly have high ql anvil.. this magically makes that impossible 0% creation into something possible ..6-10, or higher creation chance.

 

Before priests were able to continue.. often you'd see (small amount of people) recommending to the priest to grind to around 20jewelry smithing and then to use ql80 or better large anvil to be able to make metal altar anywhere, any time when it's needed.

 

 

My feedback is just .. this is perfectly correct reply from the server, if that needs to change it's going to force "noobs" into panic modes like.. "I am with 5woodcutting, I have 9 carpentry .. and this item requires me to get ql50 plank????"

That's more than cultural shock to a new player with below 10 or below woodcutting.

 

Similar is the story with low shipbuilding and creation of knarr or caravel, cog... based on creation ql of the materials - the player see different creation chance %, making it from impossible to possible... if a keel section for example.. is improved from ql2 to ql20, 

and so on...

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Posted (edited)

Checking the logs, the player was trying to build a wagon as you say and his skill was 40.08 - which should be high enough, given a good enough plank.

 

In my opinion, he should not have been told that he was not skilled enough in this situation, but should be pointed towards higher material QL.

Edited by Muse

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While I agree with Muse about the event message, it is obvious that he can do it, or the wagon would be listed in red in the crafting tab.
It is only the first time a player hits this situation (lots of flunks but able to try to make something) that it gets confusing.
I have many times seen this simular question in chat and helpful people tell them to use better materials.

But yeah, maybe change that text to "This is impossible, perhaps you need better material"

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46 minutes ago, Cecci said:

I have many times seen this simular question in chat and helpful people tell them to use better materials

I think that is the core problem.  People need to ask.  The current message is accurate but very imprecise.  "You can't do this for reasons" is just as accurate and not much less informative.

 

I think if you hover over a red item in the crafting tab, you get a better message that mentions both skill and material.  Those who use the crafting tab get more complete information than those who use menus.

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2 hours ago, Cecci said:

While I agree with Muse about the event message, it is obvious that he can do it, or the wagon would be listed in red in the crafting tab.
It is only the first time a player hits this situation (lots of flunks but able to try to make something) that it gets confusing.
I have many times seen this simular question in chat and helpful people tell them to use better materials.

But yeah, maybe change that text to "This is impossible, perhaps you need better material"

That is cryptic in another way.. like "maybe you need a rare plank" ^^, ql should be directly mentioned if that is what stops the action, simplicity, if the UI wont hint it in any way, at least the text feedback should be the direct helper to figure the problem.

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The player can't select a higher skill level, but they could very well select a better quality material. The message could be word-smithed a little but the basic concept is sound, and if it reduces the number of people asking in CA HELP then I think that's good for everyone

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Are there items that are specifically skill gated?

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14 minutes ago, LionIX said:

Are there items that are specifically skill gated?

Wagon 40 fine carp as an example, there are multiple other objects also, like large crates, furniture and smelter are examples. Sometimes it is listed in wurmpedia but not always.

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Items that are skill gated are listed on the wiki

 

in general though it's a difficulty vs effective skill, which is a mix of skill + item ql, so it's a soft system that means with better tools you can succeed with lower skill 

 

the message makes sense, and I think one person mistaking it to mean they're not skilled enough (which is sort of true) isn't driving any need to rework it

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42 minutes ago, Archaed said:

the message makes sense, and I think one person mistaking it to mean they're not skilled enough (which is sort of true) isn't driving any need to rework it

Except it isn't just one person.  

 

On 5/19/2022 at 3:22 PM, Cecci said:

I have many times seen this simular question in chat and helpful people tell them to use better materials.

 

 

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Posted (edited)

I would think the better group of people to answer this are the CA which deal with the same incredible volume of questions over and over again.

IN fact I would say a log of CA chat should be reviewed once a week to see what questions keep popping up over and over and over.

That would help focus on what needs to be word smith ed  to give better meaning to context.

Even thought here is a wurmpedia on errors u get on mining in caves and such, some of that stuff is darn right cryptic if your new.

 

2 copper

Edited by puncher

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Problem is .. wurm does not have good server/client feedback for cases where skill and ql overlap as requirements and having the one or the other could kind of.. ignore the requirement of the other;

*Haven't tried if it's possible to start a wagon with really high ql starting materials and 39 skill for example.. but things like creating plate armor is or jewelrysmithing altar is easy if you have "exceptionally" high ql large anvil - which could allow a player to skip skilling up to reach possible creation by just obtaining or borrowing a really good creation tool.

 

UI lacks ingame tooltips or the commonly used exclamation mark/question mark icons.. and small tips explaining these things; obviously this gets really fuzzy when you add "hundred" skills to it and all possible items, but it's nothing undoable if it's categorized well in the code or database for the requirements; but with various devs through the years, who knows.

 

killing the need to use the wiki at all while playing is a serious QoL 😕

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