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Keenan

Development Update - May 2022

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8 hours ago, Lisimba said:

 

Note that whenever the game changes over to winter, and later back to non-winter, the launcher does its patching thing. This also happens when there's a new skin. Those events cause somewhere from one to three patching events per real life month, but they are purely graphics related, the client does *not* change version number for them.

you are correct, and i was wrong, its a three part system, client, server and assets. Thank you for pointing that out. ❤️

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Thanks for keeping us updated @KeenanCan't wait to explore more once the exploration update is live. The mobs around my deed just can't stay alive for some reason...

 

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13 hours ago, Tomatoes said:

  my apologies, i wasnt my intention to make you think you were under attack or w/e - figured instead of trying to tell you what to do, id try to help out instead, since you missed this bit here:

 

I'm not experiencing issues with the new client, though. i just want to know if there will be a minimalistic GUI included.

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4 minutes ago, Aeris said:

 

I'm not experiencing issues with the new client, though. i just want to know if there will be a minimalistic GUI included.

your idea of 'minimalistic' and mine are very different i do believe. no pictures to me means too much space taken up by headings and text. nothing but text seems like a poor experience imho.


EDIT: Keep in mind that ALL pictures/icons/images would have to be replaced with text. 

Edited by Tomatoes
clarifcation

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Considering that there is currently a GUI called "Old UI" I think the devs understand what kind of GUI elements me and the others are interested in. :)

Edited by Aeris
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8 minutes ago, Aeris said:

Considering that there is currently a GUI called "Old UI" I think the devs mean what kind of GUI elements me and the others are interested in. :)

I know, I used to use it all the time,  however it was never about images, or lack there of. its was always in the SIZE of the elements for me, and for the longest time i wouldnt use the new UI, only cause the elements were too big. this is how small it goes:
unknown.png

 

By the way, thats the Large toolbelt and compass you see, not the small size ones. 

Edit:
my point is when was the last time you spent more the 10-15 minutes playing the game with the new UI?

 

Edited by Tomatoes
added my point.

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4 hours ago, Tomatoes said:

Just because you dont particuarly care for discord(what ever that reason may be) dont mean its still not a VALID AND OFFICIAL place to get information:

unknown.png

it's the worst way to build a community, it's wasting moderator effort for no returns;

you can run an event there .. and you'll force players to go create extra accounts for that, unless you plan to utilize it for that often, it's wasted effort to manage it

 

it's way better to implement ven + rewards for watching and having people leaving tabs open, etc.. so other people on twitch see this game.. passive free advertising if done right

 

rest is forums.. normally ignored by players as nobody have any reason to open the forums or official website, there are no updates to read or events to check, if there's a new skin or a patchnote - it's in the launcher but it's leading you through weird chain or links just for the sake of tracing all links and finding the missing ones.. like opening news /patchnotes from launcher.. landing on the official page.. and then be stuck.... now you need to open the forums and find the official forum thread about same news and then be able to comment and join a discussion; utility is there.. but the extra steps are not the best practice with the manual effort

 

if you can do that in discord and you enjoy moderation - good for you, I don't need a babysitter, I'd just ignore somebody or report them if they are annoying and move on;

disco is wasted mod effort imo, just imo, you're right about that

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while we talk about UI.. new, old, and such..... what are the chances to eventually get a chance to have external packs for just the UI and be able to "force" UI(only HUD) graphics and possibly... manage jsons or something, whatever it is... but manage interaction options for items and equipped tools - literally to offer players to rework the UI and make it thinner, bolder, more green, black, orange, red... whatever color, shade, add/remove swirls/lines etc.. and the option to chance sorting and alignment for right click menus on a tile/chest/door/etc... based on equipped tool

 

is that too much effort to leave defaults in the main packs.. but load and use external pack content if such is preferred? Not all games have this.. but good amount of the long term mmos offer it.

 

NOT talking about client modding, just UI and menu alignment overrides.

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37 minutes ago, Finnn said:

it's the worst way to build a community, it's wasting moderator effort for no returns;

you can run an event there .. and you'll force players to go create extra accounts for that, unless you plan to utilize it for that often, it's wasted effort to manage it

How so? your example is outright wrong by the way - Discord has account switching, and no one is making ANYONE create extra accounts for anything. And when it comes to events like Impalongs, well they do tend to repeat.

 

40 minutes ago, Finnn said:

it's way better to implement ven + rewards for watching and having people leaving tabs open, etc.. so other people on twitch see this game.. passive free advertising if done right

I dont want to advertise anyone elses stuff that i have yet to "vet" - i mean, i totally get people should support each other, but if your not careful you will get yourself burned, and it may not be in a way that one can recover from. Just look at the Artisian Builds fiasco....

Besides, i have a much deeper issue with 'ads' - in my honest opinion its consensual brainwashing, and im done with it.

45 minutes ago, Finnn said:

rest is forums.. normally ignored by players as nobody have any reason to open the forums or official website, there are no updates to read or events to check, if there's a new skin or a patchnote - it's in the launcher but it's leading you through weird chain or links just for the sake of tracing all links and finding the missing ones.. like opening news /patchnotes from launcher.. landing on the official page.. and then be stuck.... now you need to open the forums and find the official forum thread about same news and then be able to comment and join a discussion; utility is there.. but the extra steps are not the best practice with the manual effort

 

if you can do that in discord and you enjoy moderation - good for you, I don't need a babysitter, I'd just ignore somebody or report them if they are annoying and move on;

disco is wasted mod effort imo, just imo, you're right about that

The first half of that 'sounds' like you are reasoning out for yourself 'something', however being as i dont quite think that way i am unsure. If the last few sentences are anything to on, i would assume that you are attempting to say that Discord isnt valid as an official communication outlet for Wurm. if this is the case then you should see this(assuming you have yet to):
unknown.png

 

My point here is that you may not particularly think that Discord is 'worth' it, however it sure seems someone does. I for one am glad its available. Shall i dump on your favorite way to communicate with your friends and family? i think not.

 

 

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whatever potatoes

ublock stops ads on twitch/youtube/.. if you see ads you're either not using right extension or you're not turbo/sub to stop seeing them; solution is up to you

whatever for the rest, no need to derail

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3 hours ago, Finnn said:

it's the worst way to build a community, it's wasting moderator effort for no returns;

you can run an event there .. and you'll force players to go create extra accounts for that, unless you plan to utilize it for that often, it's wasted effort to manage it

 

it's way better to implement ven + rewards for watching and having people leaving tabs open, etc.. so other people on twitch see this game.. passive free advertising if done right

 

rest is forums.. normally ignored by players as nobody have any reason to open the forums or official website, there are no updates to read or events to check, if there's a new skin or a patchnote - it's in the launcher but it's leading you through weird chain or links just for the sake of tracing all links and finding the missing ones.. like opening news /patchnotes from launcher.. landing on the official page.. and then be stuck.... now you need to open the forums and find the official forum thread about same news and then be able to comment and join a discussion; utility is there.. but the extra steps are not the best practice with the manual effort

 

if you can do that in discord and you enjoy moderation - good for you, I don't need a babysitter, I'd just ignore somebody or report them if they are annoying and move on;

disco is wasted mod effort imo, just imo, you're right about that

04ca09f09eb8162d4b8cd6106b8e49d678d4e021

 

 

Discord is THE way to build community. You know you had to create an extra account for the forums right? 

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2 hours ago, Archaed said:

 

Discord is THE way to build community. You know you had to create an extra account for the forums right? 

 

Nope.  I had an account for the fora LONG before I had a discord account, and was kind of forced into Discord for WU, as that was where all the discussion went.  There is a community here, and I was part of that community well before I went anywhere near Discord.

 

To declare it as THE definitive and singular way to build community is pretty narrow.  It's a bit like saying Facebook is THE way to have friends.

 

 

Edited by TheTrickster
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2 hours ago, Archaed said:

Discord is THE way to build community. You know you had to create an extra account for the forums right? 

 

Forums worked fine before discord came along.

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2 hours ago, Archaed said:

04ca09f09eb8162d4b8cd6106b8e49d678d4e021

Discord is THE way to build community. You know you had to create an extra account for the forums right? 

new players eventually meet the bug-reporting process:

- there's /support, that leaves a new tab - impossible to get rid of.. for 2 weeks, if it's a glitch and gm can solve it, probably this is the successful end of the scenario;

- if it's a bug, you're "forced" or politely asked to go out of your way and register on the forums to post a bug report, because there's no other reporting system

(right sure you can guest it.. and then keep track of the thread and update it if somebody asks for further feedback..)

 

and the other.. no matter how sensitive, until learning about alternative ways to report it.. reporting procedure is posting about it on the forums,

where often you'd get other players learning about it.. and starting to abuse it if it's something earning value

 

there's not one example of successful discord game community you can present to prove that statement

what have discord earned for ccab since it's creation, besides positions for mods that basically waste their time hanging around with different colors

 

if ccab's discord stops tomorrow, the only people noticing will be the few sharing screenshots and memes...

(assuming that's the highlight of active content, people having nothing better to do and spending time on that)

 

it's amusing how all your posts end up "argumenting" around fighting people and not the content where you write or it's a troll vague sarcasm

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Catering to the "Discord community" has ruined plenty of games. Absent of proper threading and moderation tools you just have loud cliques crowd out the conversation. Any dev using Discord should be aware that the feedback they get from it is utterly worthless in the best case, and actively detrimental to their game at worst.

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On 5/17/2022 at 7:15 AM, Keenan said:

The clear response from that review is that we need to fix what is broken, polish the rougher edges, and focus on the new player experience.

This is best news ever! I think this has been needed for a long time and will give new players a better experience and keep players coming back. Added content is nice but when you log in and see stuff that has been broken or should have been priority years ago it even drives old players away.

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I will accept that I spoke a bit too bluntly in regards to Discord being THE place to build community, but accepting that it is fast becoming the best way to do so, connecting people outside of the game and those inside of it, and building live active communities is key. 

 

The forums are delayed, and have the same issues as those have shared about Discord re: select groups, but it's something that is integral to running a cohesive and complete community. 

 

Announcements are made on the forums and shared on discord, just like the launcher, but you get notifications outside of the game, and not needing to be checking the forums every few hours for news and updates. It allows you to connect with players outside of the game in a way that the forums do too. 

 

 

 

 

Edited by Archaed
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10 hours ago, Archaed said:

I will accept that I spoke a bit too bluntly in regards to Discord being THE place to build community, but accepting that it is fast becoming the best way to do so, connecting people outside of the game and those inside of it, and building live active communities is key. 

 

The forums are delayed, and have the same issues as those have shared about Discord re: select groups, but it's something that is integral to running a cohesive and complete community. 

 

Announcements are made on the forums and shared on discord, just like the launcher, but you get notifications outside of the game, and not needing to be checking the forums every few hours for news and updates. It allows you to connect with players outside of the game in a way that the forums do too.

 

Literally this.

Of course the forums have BEEN fine, but good lord whatever they operate on shows its age really badly.

100kb avatars? 5 second search delays, even if you just misclicked and quickly go back a window? Idk, it's kinda lame.

 

The talk always loops to advertising. Well, the modern gamer is usually on Discord for a bloody good chunk of reasons. A good chunk of new players come into the Discord first because it's so easy to find and it's generally thought beforehand it'd be quite active (which is incorrect sadly)

 

The times changed. Forums (generally) died years ago, services like Discord are the current social hubs for communities to meet, gather and sometimes start off.

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5 hours ago, Madnath said:

 

Literally this.

Of course the forums have BEEN fine, but good lord whatever they operate on shows its age really badly.

100kb avatars? 5 second search delays, even if you just misclicked and quickly go back a window? Idk, it's kinda lame.

 

The talk always loops to advertising. Well, the modern gamer is usually on Discord for a bloody good chunk of reasons. A good chunk of new players come into the Discord first because it's so easy to find and it's generally thought beforehand it'd be quite active (which is incorrect sadly)

 

The times changed. Forums (generally) died years ago, services like Discord are the current social hubs for communities to meet, gather and sometimes start off.

You're telling me.. somebody manages start guides for new players.. and new players just install disco or run it from browser just to voip with strangers and spam FAQ on voip?

And there's somebody still with their right mind supporting any of that in real time?

 

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52 minutes ago, Finnn said:

You're telling me.. somebody manages start guides for new players.. and new players just install disco or run it from browser just to voip with strangers and spam FAQ on voip?

And there's somebody still with their right mind supporting any of that in real time?

 

I don't think you understand what discord is. 

 

It's closer to irc with voice, the majority of communication is in text. 

 

People also have dozens of groups and servers they're a part of. For me, I'm in many groups for games, content creators, and actual friends. It's not like teamspeak or something 

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1 hour ago, Archaed said:

I don't think you understand what discord is. 

 

It's closer to irc with voice, the majority of communication is in text. 

 

People also have dozens of groups and servers they're a part of. For me, I'm in many groups for games, content creators, and actual friends. It's not like teamspeak or something 

Aye, it is, in fact, mostly text and images. course you can screen share and use voice chat, but when it comes to information disseminating, its all text/image based. 
 

and yes , while some people are part of multiple servers, some only participate in a select few - its all up to the user as to what they want to see/participate in. 

The most major difference between Discord and the forums is speed of delivery, with notification delivery(ie, not having to have a browser open to recieve them) being a hard second, imho. it even has ignore functions like in game. 

 

 

 

Finn,
While i understand that making 'extra' accounts suck, and that im giving away my 'personal details' every-time someone hacks some place i have an account, there is no such thing as a 'unified login', which means every service a person uses needs its own account. and no, its not really all that fun in the long run, normally i just 'deal'.
 

On 5/18/2022 at 1:11 PM, Finnn said:

while we talk about UI.. new, old, and such..... what are the chances to eventually get a chance to have external packs for just the UI and be able to "force" UI(only HUD) graphics and possibly... manage jsons or something, whatever it is... but manage interaction options for items and equipped tools - literally to offer players to rework the UI and make it thinner, bolder, more green, black, orange, red... whatever color, shade, add/remove swirls/lines etc.. and the option to chance sorting and alignment for right click menus on a tile/chest/door/etc... based on equipped tool

 

is that too much effort to leave defaults in the main packs.. but load and use external pack content if such is preferred? Not all games have this.. but good amount of the long term mmos offer it.

 

NOT talking about client modding, just UI and menu alignment overrides.

now ive thought long and hard since you brought this up, and while i like it in principal, i can see it being used to abuse the game - a 'get knowledge that other players wouldn't normally have' type situation. what sorts of safeguards could be put in place for something like this( the situation i see in otherwords)?

 

 

Edited by Tomatoes
clarifcation

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So just a deal on discord.  

I got together with a brand new player yesterday on Discord as he was doing a Twitch stream.

It was great the voice communication was smooth and I was able to answer some questions and give some tip tricks.

Also in my alliance if we have questions we can use DISCORD to instantly stream what were working on and get input.

Or show off the deed progress without people having to drive 1000 tiles to see.

Not everybody has to use voice and its a great place to leave permanent text messages where as wurm you get to go dig through a file and try and find what HE SAID SHE SAID>

 

Just my two copper

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This really should not be an argument about "Forum OR Discord". Definitely they both have their strengths and weaknesses, and they serve different purposes. So, it's good to have them both. 

 

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Wurm people make a great community. Wurm people can also apparently argue about ANYTHING.

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This isn't the place to argue about Discord vs forums, or Discord on other games, or Discord generally.  Please stop.

 

Pandalet (LFM)

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