Keenan

Development Update - May 2022

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I'm sorry I don't write down the time and date every time the client forces me to download new packages and re-launches with a new version number so I can't make such an absolute statement, but it does happen, quite frequently. 

 

If you like I can start recording that information and pm you each time.

 

The fact that it ever happens just once is the complaint. It takes two seconds to type "Minor bug fixes" or "Removed exploits", and I have seen such patch notes in the past, but they are rare compared to the number of times that there are no patch notes at all.

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8 minutes ago, Dinant said:

I'm sorry I don't write down the time and date every time the client forces me to download new packages and re-launches with a new version number so I can't make such an absolute statement, but it does happen, quite frequently. 

 

If you like I can start recording that information and pm you each time.

 

The fact that it ever happens just once is the complaint. It takes two seconds to type "Minor bug fixes" or "Removed exploits", and I have seen such patch notes in the past, but they are rare compared to the number of times that there are no patch notes at all.

If there are no patch notes then nothing forward facing has been changed. 

 

Patch notes are for changes that impact players 

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Didn't we start the whole conversation asking for more information about what was being changed behind the scenes?

 

But I'm glad you're acknowledging that things are being changed without patch notes, thank you.

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4 minutes ago, Dinant said:

Didn't we start the whole conversation asking for more information about what was being changed behind the scenes?

 

But I'm glad you're acknowledging that things are being changed without patch notes, thank you.

... 

 

You got me, I wasted time and energy on this. Good troll

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4 minutes ago, Archaed said:

... 

 

You got me, I wasted time and energy on this. Good troll

 

How am I the troll when you eventually have to admit that my initial statement was actually correct?

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3 minutes ago, Dinant said:

 

How am I the troll when you eventually have to admit that my initial statement was actually correct?

Your statement was wrong. The client hasn't been updated in months, restarts come with announcements. 

 

Stop thinking the devs are trying to sneak things over on you. 

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2 minutes ago, Archaed said:

Stop thinking the devs are trying to sneak things over on you. 

 

my personal favourite is the monthly "they put in a monthly skin and now X"
I should make a bingo card for it really
"wow I can't hit trolls at all since today's skin update"
"has anyone been having trouble with casting a good coc since the new skin was put in"

"they put in a monthly skin and now my 70% creation chance has failed 5 times in a row"

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23 minutes ago, Archaed said:

If there are no patch notes then nothing forward facing has been changed. 

 

Patch notes are for changes that impact players 

 

4 minutes ago, Archaed said:

Your statement was wrong. The client hasn't been updated in months, restarts come with announcements. 

 

Stop thinking the devs are trying to sneak things over on you. 

 

I don't see how both these sets of statements can be true at the same time. On the one hand you admit there are sometimes changes without patch notes, then you say that it never happens.

 

Also I object to your continued efforts to impune my motives. Nowhere have I said anything about 'hiding' or 'sneaking'. I am merely pointing out places where there is not any communication currently and suggesting there should be.

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5 minutes ago, Stanlee said:

 

my personal favourite is the monthly "they put in a monthly skin and now X"
I should make a bingo card for it really
"wow I can't hit trolls at all since today's skin update"
"has anyone been having trouble with casting a good coc since the new skin was put in"

"they put in a monthly skin and now my 70% creation chance has failed 5 times in a row"

where the ###### did my woodscraps go they were just on the floor 4 days before this update

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Posted (edited)

going back to the topic of the new player experience, i have noticed that new players trying to use the ingame recruitment boards to find a deed to join and they are always empty because nobody uses them to find new players. and when asking on ca help they are told to use the forums which works sometimes but its slow and often recruitment topics are years old and havent had any replies for months, which makes the game look dead. i dont have a solution for that but that is a real problem.

 

a problem with a much simpler solution is the wierd names of the chat channels, would it be so hard to change the names of the channels on pve servers from "ca help" to just "help" "freedom" to "server" and "gl-freedom" to "global" ?

Edited by Tpikol
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Is there any place for feedback to existing features, with the idea to polish or slightly rework things in a way that is easier to use or less tedious with not so many extra steps..

 

What I want to say is... that I really don't want to say in this way... but this is the short version to explain it... so everyone could channel their own josh.. and voice some odd things they find as they play the game and report them, and do or don't suggest improvement with the feedback report.

 

 

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Stanlee said:

 

my personal favourite is the monthly "they put in a monthly skin and now X"
I should make a bingo card for it really
"wow I can't hit trolls at all since today's skin update"
"has anyone been having trouble with casting a good coc since the new skin was put in"

"they put in a monthly skin and now my 70% creation chance has failed 5 times in a row"

 

I found when I modded a WU server. I'd change one thing completely unrelated and it would break 20 other things. No surprise here. Lol.

Edited by Rudie

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4 hours ago, Dinant said:

 

 

I don't see how both these sets of statements can be true at the same time. On the one hand you admit there are sometimes changes without patch notes, then you say that it never happens.

 

Also I object to your continued efforts to impune my motives. Nowhere have I said anything about 'hiding' or 'sneaking'. I am merely pointing out places where there is not any communication currently and suggesting there should be.

Because you forget that the game is a DUAL SYSTEM - SERVER and CLIENT systems. Archaed is right, last time the client was updated was Sept. 2021. all of the rest are Server updates.

as for him 'impune'ing your motives, its really easy to see that you just want to KNOW everything that the devs are up to, and any sort of 'keeping things to ones self' is a bad idea, at least when ever its suggested to you(at least thats what ive seen in your interactions with Archaed).

now im all for a bit more in the way of 'communication', but this is their 'lively hood' as i understand it. in some cases it may not be the only thing they do to survive RL, but Developing for the game may be a large part of that. i dont know about you, but i wouldn't want the general public to have full access to my private creation journals till LONG after ive done finished creating.

 

4 hours ago, Tpikol said:

a problem with a much simpler solution is the wierd names of the chat channels, would it be so hard to change the names of the channels on pve servers from "ca help" to just "help" "freedom" to "server" and "gl-freedom" to "global" ?

And lose what little lore there is for this game?!?!?!?!  NO THANKS, HARD PASS. I get some may find it confusing, and a setting in the config might help there, but im not one for changing that.

 

5 hours ago, Aeris said:

I do not understand the random aggression or questioning of my want for a minimalistic GUI setting. I am not asking for the devs to take anything away from anyone else: I simpy want an option for straight edges around the windows (not that slanted top one with an invisible overlay that's in the screenshots featured in the thread) and for the majority of the information to be printed in text instead of GUI icons. I am not asking for anyone else's preferred GUI to be removed or altered.

my apologies, i wasnt my intention to make you think you were under attack or w/e - figured instead of trying to tell you what to do, id try to help out instead, since you missed this bit here:

15 hours ago, Keenan said:

Please make your issues with the new client known in this thread so that we can address them before this date.

 

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7 hours ago, Dinant said:

I'm sorry I don't write down the time and date every time the client forces me to download new packages and re-launches with a new version number so I can't make such an absolute statement, but it does happen, quite frequently. 

 

Note that whenever the game changes over to winter, and later back to non-winter, the launcher does its patching thing. This also happens when there's a new skin. Those events cause somewhere from one to three patching events per real life month, but they are purely graphics related, the client does *not* change version number for them.

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19 hours ago, Keenan said:

We’re still working on the first part of the Exploration Update, which we are happy to announce will be arriving on May 31st. There are a few important things to mention about this update, however.

Game Dev rookie mistake never talk in set dates if you don't want to go trought a crunch. Exapt when you allredy finished with it and just delay it ot get a good headstart of the week for the bugfixes. 

 

General nice to get more news, how about a short 30s-60s Viedeo on releas day that show a bit more how it works? Like a short section at the start with all the activetys that lead to a map. Then how to notice that you get a map (is it a rare roll like drum roll?)

Then a short exploration part that can showcase the lands of Wurm a bit and after wards how to uncover the tressure. Short mechanic introduction viedeos like this can realy help as later referance for diffrent mechanics. They are not as good as in depth tutorials but are great to peak curriosety for diffrent parts of Wurm.

20 hours ago, Keenan said:

I still intend for us to work on PvP

As some one wo plays the second time on a PvP server you shuld not wast time with this. Not that I would not like to improve PvP but the problems are so fundemental that you would need to redesinge a good chunk of the expiriance to get it some waht exepteble state.

PvP need:

A clear balanced combat system with clear advantage and disatvantage state so not one "build" emerges as the go to way and to reduce a pure stat check driven combat aproche.

Clear information so you can lern out of mistakes and defeats (wepon dmg handling or dmg absorbtions are hidden its hard to say if you were unlucky, used your skills wronge or if its the enemy build that counters you in case you loose or even if you win and you don't realy know why)

Short term to no real looses. If ther are huge time sinks in PvP looses people start to play save don't try new stuff or avoid PvP at all waht lead to less PvP engagments and ther for less of a reason to even play PvP. (One of the main reasons Hardcoe loot don't work in the long run for good PvP since you allways force a Win more and loose more senarios that let people fear PvP encounter)

 

All this are fundamental problems Wurm have in its PvP and ther is not a lot you can do short term to fix that. We allways see it in the PvP szene were one group emerge that is good at the game but bad at PvP so they win a lot drive out other players and then quit after ther are no PvP left, leaving a empty server until the population slowly refreshes and the same or another group with the same problems emerge.

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4 hours ago, Tomatoes said:

And lose what little lore there is for this game?!?!?!?!  NO THANKS, HARD PASS. I get some may find it confusing, and a setting in the config might help there, but im not one for changing that.

i have to say im very used to it and from my point of view they are fine, but trying to look from a new players point of view its not just terrible when you dont know why those names are what they are, when someone explains to you why it just makes the game look much much worse than not knowing.

 

imagine you are new  and you ask why the server wide channel is named freedom and the answer is this: "when a server exploded they had to open a new one fast so they used the kingdom system that already existed instead of coming up with a better system for pve servers and now 13 years later  we are stuck with that kingdom system made for kingdom vs kingdom pvp as the basis for all pve on this game"

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9 hours ago, Tpikol said:

going back to the topic of the new player experience, i have noticed that new players trying to use the ingame recruitment boards to find a deed to join and they are always empty because nobody uses them to find new players. and when asking on ca help they are told to use the forums which works sometimes but its slow and often recruitment topics are years old and havent had any replies for months, which makes the game look dead. i dont have a solution for that but that is a real problem.

 

 

There used to be a time when the owners of the deeds helping out new players were doing recruitment posts or posting the link to their forum recruitment thread at the Freedom channel of their own server. And occasonally at GL as well.

 

That kinda stopped at some point when some of  those deed owners at Xan posted about their "better" starter's deed the moment another player brought up their recruitment; sort of starting a "recruitement war".
It kinda ended when several new players asked for a trip to other servers, because they could decide where to join a starter's deed in peace.

 

So in general that option is still there, although I don't know how many and which starter's deeds are still present at Xan or SFI in general.

 

But perhaps it's a good time for one of the Forum mods to look into all those old recruitement posts and simply close those which are over 6 months old as it can be assumed those deeds are inactive anyway.

(Not that they got nothing to do, but..... :D

 

 

Thorin :) 

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1 hour ago, Radircs said:

Game Dev rookie mistake never talk in set dates if you don't want to go trought a crunch. Exapt when you allredy finished with it and just delay it ot get a good headstart of the week for the bugfixes. 

 

It's being released in under two weeks 🤔

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3 hours ago, Tpikol said:

imagine you are new  and you ask why the server wide channel is named freedom and the answer is this: "when a server exploded they had to open a new one fast so they used the kingdom system that already existed instead of coming up with a better system for pve servers and now 13 years later  we are stuck with that kingdom system made for kingdom vs kingdom pvp as the basis for all pve on this game"

dont you mean: instead of completely scrapping the current system and ending the game, they used what they had?

Why not try explaining that the game WAS PvP before it was PvE, that In game and RL shenanigans happened in such a way as to cause the formation/discovery of what we now call freedom isles.

My point here is that, while i get some things may be confusing in game, its not like a little bit of conversation wont clear that up.

 

3 hours ago, Thorinoakshield said:

 

There used to be a time when the owners of the deeds helping out new players were doing recruitment posts or posting the link to their forum recruitment thread at the Freedom channel of their own server. And occasonally at GL as well.

 

That kinda stopped at some point when some of  those deed owners at Xan posted about their "better" starter's deed the moment another player brought up their recruitment; sort of starting a "recruitement war".
It kinda ended when several new players asked for a trip to other servers, because they could decide where to join a starter's deed in peace.

 

So in general that option is still there, although I don't know how many and which starter's deeds are still present at Xan or SFI in general.

 

But perhaps it's a good time for one of the Forum mods to look into all those old recruitement posts and simply close those which are over 6 months old as it can be assumed those deeds are inactive anyway.

(Not that they got nothing to do, but..... :D

 

 

Thorin :) 

There are several still "recruiting", however, from what i understand the turnover for some of these places are months, if not years, long. Check Discord recruitment too

 

the 'recruitment war' is still going on: people are constantly saying 'my place is better then yours'. there are deed fights, alt griefing and such that have happened in the past, and it would not surprise me to hear they still do the same, just with more cloak and dagger.

Could the village recruitment boards be used more? sure, however what do you put on it? linky to forums? Discord? your personal website you built for your village?

also, '6 months'? Um this game is slower then that imho. 

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10 minutes ago, Tomatoes said:

dont you mean: instead of completely scrapping the current system and ending the game, they used what they had?

Why not try explaining that the game WAS PvP before it was PvE, that In game and RL shenanigans happened in such a way as to cause the formation/discovery of what we now call freedom isles.

My point here is that, while i get some things may be confusing in game, its not like a little bit of conversation wont clear that up.

 

There are several still "recruiting", however, from what i understand the turnover for some of these places are months, if not years, long. Check Discord recruitment too

 

the 'recruitment war' is still going on: people are constantly saying 'my place is better then yours'. there are deed fights, alt griefing and such that have happened in the past, and it would not surprise me to hear they still do the same, just with more cloak and dagger.

Could the village recruitment boards be used more? sure, however what do you put on it? linky to forums? Discord? your personal website you built for your village?

also, '6 months'? Um this game is slower then that imho. 

that should never be required for anything for any public non-garage-lan-server game

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Posted (edited)
18 minutes ago, Finnn said:

that should never be required for anything for any public non-garage-lan-server game

Just because you dont particuarly care for discord(what ever that reason may be) dont mean its still not a VALID AND OFFICIAL place to get information:

unknown.png

Edited by Tomatoes
spelling police
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14 hours ago, Tpikol said:

would it be so hard to change the names of the channels on pve servers from "ca help" to just "help" "freedom" to "server" and "gl-freedom" to "global" ?

 

Yes please. New players don't understand the whole "freedom" and "gl-freedom" thing. This is an easy win.

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28 minutes ago, Tomatoes said:

dont you mean: instead of completely scrapping the current system and ending the game, they used what they had?

Why not try explaining that the game WAS PvP before it was PvE, that In game and RL shenanigans happened in such a way as to cause the formation/discovery of what we now call freedom isles.

not sure if you understand what i mean , yes that is what im saying , that the problem is this game was meant to be kingdom vs kingdom pvp, and the core mechanics havent changed after 12 years of the game being 99% pve focused. just telling new players that developers gave up on ever changing the problems caused by the pvp origins of the game is not a good thing.

 

in my ideal scenario if i decided what developers would do and they had unlimited resources to do it, i would want to see the whole kingdom system for pve ended and replaced with some kind of alliance based system that works more like the custom kingdoms do but being realistic i think thats too much to ask(since its tied to permissions and many others things)(and would make pvp folks very mad), so we could start with a simple renaming of the chat channels.

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Posted (edited)
11 minutes ago, Tpikol said:

not sure if you understand what i mean , yes that is what im saying , that the problem is this game was meant to be kingdom vs kingdom pvp, and the core mechanics havent changed after 12 years of the game being 99% pve focused. just telling new players that developers gave up on ever changing the problems caused by the pvp origins of the game is not a good thing.

 

in my ideal scenario if i decided what developers would do and they had unlimited resources to do it, i would want to see the whole kingdom system for pve ended and replaced with some kind of alliance based system that works more like the custom kingdoms do but being realistic i think thats too much to ask(since its tied to permissions and many others things)(and would make pvp folks very mad), so we could start with a simple renaming of the chat channels.

Ya, you missed my point: for them to replace the current system it would mean completely wiping away everything - from what i understand the kingdoms are so ingrained in the code that they couldn't remove them: in fact the best they could do was remove the crowns, except for HotS. 

that means they would have to program everything from scratch. blank slate. Dont know about you but im not going to make the Devs do that kind of work

and for your 'ideal scenario' to happen you would have to pay several people to code, and pay them well enough that all they think about is coding for you, and yes, you would probably get the entire pvp community upset with you if you did so.


and as much as the game is pve focused, PvP is in its blood - player vs player - person vs person. in a place like this its all about the debates. at least here no one loses anything of importance. :D 

The problem is the game needs to have an 'outlet' for the aggression - the need to 'fight'. its something everyone has, and it has to be allowed for.

Edited by Tomatoes
spelling police

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yes so we agree that removing kingdoms entirely is too much to ask, so instead im asking to have decent chat channel names. let us have this one small step away from kingdom mechanics please.

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