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Rudie

Locked containers on Freedom

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What about having the locks on everything that was formerly on-deed when it disbanded start to rapidly decay when fast-decay sets in?

 

(Do carts have a fast-decay mechanic?  At a minimum, that would be nice, to help clear up clutter)

 

For many lockable things, a very poor quality lock is automatically added, if there's a lock at all, and won't last long.  If someone has specifically and intentionally added a higher QL lock, by all rights it should last longer.  Some stuff will be lost.  But then, some should be lost.

 

 

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I've seen first-hand people bashing down supreme and rare forges, smelters, etc in order to make them under 10ql and therefore no longer planted in the ground and lootable. Inside a building that was on a deed that had just fallen hours before. Mysteriously, and rather suspiciously, there was one wall in each building that had fallen, so they were able to pick up everything and bash the items that were planted. This is why I'm against locks falling off at a certain damage level.

 

As to the interminable argument by zuelatic about knowing 100% that the person abandoned the game. No, there is no circumstance where even if I know the player is dead do I want those items in locked containers to be looted. I had a friend in Wurm die and fought an intense battle with a notorious professional looter over control of his buildings until they fell. Took about 3 months of constant vigilance (and 100's of walls and bashing of walls) but I finally prevailed and the alliance he and I were in had a sale of his items and donated the proceeds to his favorite charity. If that snarky, misty professional looter had been able to lockpick containers that would have been a travesty. There is now a lovely memorial to my friend Rapidron on the site of his old deed.

I have all of my very high-end items in locked containers, including several LMC's. Those containers have very specific perms on them allowing only people who I know and trust access. If I die and my deed falls, those people and only those people can have those 95ql+ tools and items. Under no circumstance do I want you or any of those professional looters using questionable or illegal tactics to have access to those. I'd rather they ground to dust and were buried with me.

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It's a debatable situation, but I see it through the lens of "how to design something for the majority of players, not the minority". At the end of the day, all design aspects are focused for your player base not the 5% of the playerbase, that's just selective game design that over time ruins the gameplay for others. 

 

I don't really care about disbanded deeds but I do care about one thing that has polluted wurm for over a decade: trash that takes years to decay. Bsbs, carts, ships, etc. 

 

As Rudie pointed out, 95% of the time when a deed disbands, the player doesn't come back. Subjective evidence on my part is my in game friends list with 300 names or so. About 20 of them still play. The rest 280? Their deeds have disbanded and I haven't seen them in 6 months up to 7 years. They haven't come back. They won't redeed, their stuff is ocasionally here and there and honestly, they would probably not even remember where their things even are after such a period of time. 

 

Let's face it, this mechanic to "not loot abandoned stuff because heaven forbid 5% of the players "Might"  come back is pure nonsense. I've always advocated for a smart mechanic where we can have a "vacation mode" aka your stuff can be protected off deed for a max of 1 year after you don't login or lose prem. After that point, all locks fall off and it's free game for people to loot or clean up the trash. In addition, there would be increased decay on items planted by a certain player or ships/ wagons/ carts to reduce server clutter and item pollution as well as improving the aesthetics of the game. 

 

Sorry about your friend that died Dale, I had a few friends in Wurm die too, but I don't care about their items, I care about the lack of their presence now. 

 

It's just wishful thinking on my part, but can we stop supporting systems that just create trash in game and offer so much protectionism to players that will Never come back to the game? 95% of the time they will not. Steam charts support this view. Etherdrifter's data supports this view. The 280 people that don't login anymore on my friends list support this view.

 

What more do we need? 

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What is to stop players from lock picking what is not abandoned? And FYI just because it's off deed does not mean it is abandoned!

Edited by Katrat
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7 hours ago, elentari said:

It's a debatable situation, but I see it through the lens of "how to design something for the majority of players, not the minority". At the end of the day, all design aspects are focused for your player base not the 5% of the playerbase, that's just selective game design that over time ruins the gameplay for others. 

 

I don't really care about disbanded deeds but I do care about one thing that has polluted wurm for over a decade: trash that takes years to decay. Bsbs, carts, ships, etc. 

 

As Rudie pointed out, 95% of the time when a deed disbands, the player doesn't come back. Subjective evidence on my part is my in game friends list with 300 names or so. About 20 of them still play. The rest 280? Their deeds have disbanded and I haven't seen them in 6 months up to 7 years. They haven't come back. They won't redeed, their stuff is ocasionally here and there and honestly, they would probably not even remember where their things even are after such a period of time. 

 

Let's face it, this mechanic to "not loot abandoned stuff because heaven forbid 5% of the players "Might"  come back is pure nonsense. I've always advocated for a smart mechanic where we can have a "vacation mode" aka your stuff can be protected off deed for a max of 1 year after you don't login or lose prem. After that point, all locks fall off and it's free game for people to loot or clean up the trash. In addition, there would be increased decay on items planted by a certain player or ships/ wagons/ carts to reduce server clutter and item pollution as well as improving the aesthetics of the game. 

 

It's just wishful thinking on my part, but can we stop supporting systems that just create trash in game and offer so much protectionism to players that will Never come back to the game? 95% of the time they will not. Steam charts support this view. Etherdrifter's data supports this view. The 280 people that don't login anymore on my friends list support this view.

 

The 95% what Rudie said are the players who doesn't come back and don't even say anything about wurm anymore. So are they still have a voice to be a majority or minority of wurm anymore?

The 95% who quit are 100% not playing this game anymore, the 95% are just like the normal people who are not play wurm. Can the normal people outside of wurm be a part of majority or minority of wurm people? 


What playerbase we have are the one who support change the mechanic of locked containers and support the locked containers mechanic stay as they are. And they are certainly not 95% and 5%

 

I hope people can see the number trick that elentari have implemented. What elentari was focusing on are the 95% who quit and 5% who return, we should focus on the player who are still playing this game and the 5%(still playing) who return.
For people to understand this situation more, i will make an example that may not represent the true number, but not its certainly not 95% and 5% by using common sense. Like assume they are 51% of support a change of game design, and 49% of support a stay of game design on locked container mechanic. And this is just an example for better understanding, might not represent any true number.

 

7 hours ago, elentari said:

At the end of the day, all design aspects are focused for your player base not the 5% of the playerbase, that's just selective game design that over time ruins the gameplay for others. 

At the end of the day, all design aspects are focused for your player who are still playing this game, not the ~99.99999% who doesn't play this game, that's common sense. 

 

If the majority of wurm people who are still playing wurm support the 5% of "once played wurm but not currently playing wurm" playerbase return and can access to locked containers that they have made and expected, then the locked mechanic should stay as what it is now.

 

Edited by Coach
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Trying to sell us the idea of lockpicking as a viable cure for servers being cluttered with wagons, ships and containers is questionable at best, and frankly a little ridiculous. Here's why. You're out, in your wagon or ship or cart, looking for whatever, and you come across an abandoned wagon/ship/container. You now have lockpicking capabilities because the dves listened to all of you who advocated for it. You pick the lock, find there's nothing or something in there, you take what you want and now what? Well, of course, you're going to leave it, because you already have 3 ships and 4 wagons and more containers than you can fill. Why would you take that one that you just lockpicked? Unless it's a special PMK wagon or rare/supreme or something like that, those wagons/ships/containers are going to remain right where you found them, only now they'd be lockpicked. No extra decay on them, they'll last just as long as they normally would have, only now, the 5% that Elentari mentions of players who DO return would be SOL on their items still being in their wagon/ship.

And don't even try to sell me some hairbrained idea that new players could benefit from all these lockpickable wagons and ships, cause they wouldn't have the lockpicking skills necessary to pick the locks. And besides who would all the wagon-makers and shipbuilders sell to when a newb wants one? So, you wouldn't fix the server clutter problem with this, you'd only depress the wagon/ship markets, probably killing those markets. No thanks!

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20 hours ago, Coach said:

Will let the locked containers to decay and become destroyed naturally, stay whatever it isno lockpick, steal, or destroy it by lava intentionally by other players. Because the locked container owner didn't say anything(stay silence) about how to deal with the locked container. Silence is a choice and made by the owner. Stay silence lead to a decay as default by nature in PVE servers and I repect the owner choice.

I won't say lockpicking, stealing a locked container are saving. I see it as a disrespectful behaviour to the owner choice on PVE servers. But I see it as a respectful behaviour if people do it on PVP servers because that's the core of the PVP.

If the locked container owner rename it to free to loot or free to do whatever u want, that's an owner choice and of course will loot all the stuff inside it if the mechanic allow it, not even a single drop will left if the stuffs are good.

Your scenario still adds in extra information that we didn't agree on. You express that you know some "owner's choice" that they never told you about, and then somehow respecting it. It also doesn't account for those who stay silent, but want you to take their stuff, and now you're disrespecting them.

21 hours ago, Zuelatak said:

If it is guaranteed that someone's stuff is going to decay and become destroyed. Are you opposed to someone saving it before it happens?

This should be a yes/no

 

 

 

20 hours ago, TheTrickster said:

No.  You don't.  That's the point.  All you know about Player A is they locked their stuff in a container to protect it from getting stolen.

Yes. You do. That's the point of my question that you continue to refuse the answer.

 

20 hours ago, TheTrickster said:

Game mechanisms that let you take other peoples stuff don't mean it isn't stealing.  The fact that the OP was pretty much asking to be able to break open locked stuff in order to take the contents shows exactly why there needs to be game-enforced protection, because some people 

So then do you believe the other mechanics I listed would be considered stealing too? Just ones that we allow for some reason? There's nothing wrong with someone taking another persons contents for any reason if they are destined to be deleted. I hope we can agree on that. 

 

20 hours ago, TheTrickster said:

Also, please stop yelling.  If your arguments are not convincing then making them louder is the opposite of helping.

Apologies that you see anything I say as yelling. I'm just trying to convey my summarized thoughts better to those that view the topic. That are outside the conversation. A TLDR I guess.

 

20 hours ago, TheTrickster said:

Also also, please stop insisting on not-gonna-happen hypotheticals.  I already explained why there is no point discussing such hypotheticals - especially as they seem to simply be aimed at finding some kind rationale to justify the theft.

Please stop insisting that you are all knowing and know when things are impossible or possible, and using that as reason to not answer my questions. I already explained to you that the point of the hypothetical is to find common ground and better understand our root issues. 

 

20 hours ago, TheTrickster said:

Suggestions are proposed solutions to problems.  The "problem" in this case is not actually a problem.  It is a perfectly valid mechanism to protect the hard work of players.

Suggestions are just changes to the game. They can be solutions, additions, subtractions, tweaks, whatever. And while the OP seems mainly in the addition aspect I feel like I have made a good point that lost history is a problem. 

 

20 hours ago, TheTrickster said:

(maybe even only days?) from just being gone.  By taking it I am preserving it.

But this is what I'm suggesting for locksss. A last moment scenario where the lock breaks or becomes pickable, so that items can be preserved.

 

 

 

14 hours ago, DaletheGood said:

Mysteriously, and rather suspiciously, there was one wall in each building that had fallen, so they were able to pick up everything and bash the items that were planted. This is why I'm against locks falling off at a certain damage level.

That isn't just speculation. That's conspiracy >.< Your against locks because of mysterious scenario where you assume people cheated. If there was such an exploit more people would be doing it, and it would be patched.

 

14 hours ago, DaletheGood said:

Under no circumstance do I want you or any of those professional looters using questionable or illegal tactics to have access to those. I'd rather they ground to dust and were buried with me.

Well the discussion is about making legal tactics, but if you'd still be against it for that reason then fair. A harsh stance, but a fair one.

 

6 hours ago, DaletheGood said:

Unless it's a special PMK wagon or rare/supreme or something like that, those wagons/ships/containers are going to remain right where you found them, only now they'd be lockpicked.

If the vehicle is just on the verge of being destroyed then it still makes sense to make it accessible to the player in some way to save it instead of watching such a rare sight vanish. 

 

 

 

8 hours ago, Katrat said:

What is to stop players from lock picking what is not abandoned? And FYI just because it's off deed does not mean it is abandoned!

If using my idea it would be the same thing stopping you. The item needs to be at least ~80 damage which would mean it doesn't have long to live and so we should label that as abandoned to allow a majority of goods that get lost to be instead saved.

 

 

 

 

Why can't we suffer the let's say 365 day protection that a lock gives for 360 days and our items are not guaranteed to be destroyed if we become absent? You'll still have so much protection to potentially return to the game and get your items back. It would be such an edge case for the smallll % of people that would come back in those last 5 days we sacrificed. It would just be another mechanic of "stealing" that we consent to that also has the added benefit of not having history lost.

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2 hours ago, Zuelatak said:

You express that you know some "owner's choice" that they never told you about, and then somehow respecting it. It also doesn't account for those who stay silent, but want you to take their stuff, and now you're disrespecting them.

I know the locked container owner choice is stay silence, even though they never told me about. How do i know? They never told me anything, and that's is called silence and this is a choice. Hello? I didn't hear anything from the owner. Hello owner, can u say something to me? Hello?

I respect the choice of stay silence. 
If they want people to take their stuff, the owner should rename the locked container to free to loot, simply unlock the container or telling people. And that is the responsibility of the locked container owner if they want people to take their stuff. 

 

2 hours ago, Zuelatak said:

If it is guaranteed that someone's stuff is going to decay and become destroyed. Are you opposed to someone saving it before it happens? This should be a yes/no

If the locked container owner choose to say "the items inside the locked container can be saved(lockpicking, stealing)" to person B before the locked container is going to decay and become destroyed, then person B can save the locked container. Because the owner give the permission from their words. But usually the owner just unlock the locked container for person B instead of just telling person B u can loot my locked container. This situation happen less than 1% i would say, and it doesn't really make any sense if the owner gave the permission by their mouth but not by the game mechanic(just unlocked the locked container for person B).


If the locked container owner choose to not say anything(stay silence) to person B before the locked container is going to decay and become destroyed, then person B shouldn't save(lockpicking, stealing) the locked container. This situation happen 99% of the time.
When something is private, locked, that means they are only for one person or group and not for everyone. Let the locked container be a locked container and stay what it is, decay by default as most of the player know it.

Stay silence lead to a unlocked container decay as default by nature in PVE servers, as most of the player know this decay mechanic, if people choose to stay silence, they choose to let the unlocked container decay by default.

So 99% i opposed to someone saving the locked container before it decays and becomes destroyed.


If u ask me is this such a waste? Yes, but the choices of the locked container owner come first, locked and not for everyone. I respect they stay silence and respect they put a lock on it to make it private.

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Here's what I think;

 

Spoiler

337px-2014-02-06_wiki_troll.png

 

I wish I didn't, but I don't know what else to conclude.

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I've never used locks on any of my chests or other items. If something is really valuable then I might use a alt account to store it, in the inventory.   Other stuff is in my house which has locked down perms anyway.

 

If the deed the house is on falls and also then the building the item is in falls then those items are up for grabs.  Anything really valuable is stored behind stone High ql brick walls.  It takes ages for them to decay off deed lol sometimes a year or more if high ql.  Plenty of time for me to come back and grab them before the walls fall and looters come to grab the goodies.

 

Then again, if things do get taken which they were before in the past when I left for a while.  I then just went and found some old dropped deeds in the wild to refill my lost items.  I did have some really good flags taken from me though that I was attached to.   But then I saw that I was making a big deal out of a video game and the items did not even  exist in real life, so why was I getting so emotional and drama filled for? 

 

I let go of my attachment to those items and then felt much better.  I also then placed some of my other flags around the community deed so that everyone could share in them. 

 

That's the thing, if you have attachments then you have something to lose. You have investment. I still have attachments to things that I've created or done in wurm but each time when I see things changed, I try and remember that all things change and try to see the good in what is new, instead of clinging onto the past.

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13 hours ago, Coach said:

If the majority of wurm people who are still playing wurm support the 5% of "once played wurm but not currently playing wurm" playerbase return and can access to locked containers that they have made and expected, then the locked mechanic should stay as what it is now.

I also stated somewhere in my post that:

 

20 hours ago, elentari said:

Subjective evidence on my part is my in game friends list with 300 names or so. About 20 of them still play. The rest 280? Their deeds have disbanded and I haven't seen them in 6 months up to 7 years. They haven't come back. They won't redeed, their stuff is ocasionally here and there and honestly, they would probably not even remember where their things even are after such a period of time. 

Case in point, I once took a 18 month break from wurm. It wasn't my first one, but it was probably the longest. I knew that when I'd be back my stuff might be gone, and I would be ok with that, want to know why? Because I put all my valuable stuff on my char, on an alt and in a bank. 

 

It's the responsibility of the player to take care of his own items. It's not however the responsibility of other to have to endure watching decayed ruins everywhere. It's just ugly and frankly, depressing. Coming from a dead cluster like Epic, I can tell you, visit them sometime to see how just depressingly empty and how ruined they are. 

 

It also creates a secondary more subtle issue. The appearance of a dead game. Games that look dead do not attract new players, ever. I know, I've tried some mmos in the past and when I realised they were dead, I simply quit. Area near starter towns filled with abandoned carts, wagons and general rubbish should imho have a mechanic to get rid of them. 

 

I state this again : It's the responsibility of the player to take care of his own items. No one else. We already have a mechanic for a player to take care of his own items. We actually have several, but the biggest one is : deeds. The moment a player lets his deed go down, it is clear that player doesn't want the responsibility to take care of his own stuff. So what then? We should be happy with seeing stuff that takes real life years to decay ? Because a player left the game? What happens when several hundred leave the game? We have to be content with garbage everywhere? Do gms have to switch their jobs to garbage disposal because we don't have better mechanics? 

 

Besides deeds, we also have other mechanics to store your stuff : Prem an alt for a few silvers, and put stuff on him. Or use a bank. Or put stuff on your main. Care for horses? Chances are they will be alive if cared for even after some years. 


So why do we have so many mechanics in place for people who might come back? I don't know the real percentage obviously, might be 5% might be 60%, who knows.

 

I am just tired of seeing constant reminders of having mechanics that favour player lack of responsibility because heaven forbid someone loses in game pixels when he doesn't want to login to protect those pixels in the first place. 

 

That's just my thoughts. 

 

Here's a few links to see that this discussion has been had many times in various forms, even with suggestions on how to fix abandoned things. 

 

 

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21 minutes ago, elentari said:

The moment a player lets his deed go down, it is clear that player doesn't want the responsibility to take care of his own stuff.

No, it isn't.  When a player puts their stuff in a locked container they are taking responsibility for protecting it.  Deedfall can happen for several reasons, and assuming it is lack of responsibility is simply not justified.

 

Why do we have these mechanics?  Because it is a sandbox game.  Everyone chooses for themself exactly how they will play - within the game mechanics.  That includes when they play, for how long and how often.

 

You say you hate the ruins that are everywhere but paradoxically say it is empty. I am not sure I understand that.  However, I love exploring ruins, and I am pretty certain I am not alone.  Wurm is game with a very diverse player population.  

 

"Lived in" is synonymous with "clutter" so in fact clutter should be an indicator of an active game, not a dead one.  In fact, the Steam launch fairly clearly showed that a plethora of "abandoned" small carts is a good indicator of a game with a lot of new players.

 

And beside all that, lockpicking would not reduce the clutter at all.  Most people who seem to want the mechanic are fairly open about it being so they can acquire stuff - so the empties and the low worth stuff will still be there.

 

If it is just clutter you are worried about, go add your voice to my Lost and Found suggestion for a very simple but powerful clear up mechanism.  Anyone caring about the litter and not the loot should be happy to have such a mechanism.

 

 

 

Edited by TheTrickster
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Yeah, saying that you want lockpicking of abandoned wagons, ships and containers in order to clear up clutter is ridiculous. Those are things established players have in abundance, so there'd be no incentive to move them once you've picked their locks unless they were rare or better, or a PMK you wanted, or maybe a cool color. Which would leave the vast majority of abandoned things right where they are. I know of dozens of abandoned deeds that have unlocked large chests, bsb's and to a lesser extent, crates, and those have been there for sometimes years because no one needs them enough to go pick them up. Let's at least stop this line of argument. This lockpicking mechanism that you're arguing for would NOT clear up the clutter.

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1 hour ago, DaletheGood said:

Yeah, saying that you want lockpicking of abandoned wagons, ships and containers in order to clear up clutter is ridiculous. Those are things established players have in abundance, so there'd be no incentive to move them once you've picked their locks unless they were rare or better, or a PMK you wanted, or maybe a cool color. Which would leave the vast majority of abandoned things right where they are. I know of dozens of abandoned deeds that have unlocked large chests, bsb's and to a lesser extent, crates, and those have been there for sometimes years because no one needs them enough to go pick them up. Let's at least stop this line of argument. This lockpicking mechanism that you're arguing for would NOT clear up the clutter.

But lockpicking literally would gave people possibility to move those.

If someone wants to clear area for his deed, or just do not like some trash in his area he would be able to remove the clutter.

 

Of course people do not clear abandoned deeds from carts and stuff on daily basis. If they just explore, scavenge or pass by, it would be a waste of time so most won't.

 

I have suggested some time ago void mechanic to get rid of abandoned vehicles and boats with ability to reclaim those when owner come back. I think it's a good compromise.

 

 

 

 

 

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No ship, cart, wagon, much less containers like b/fsb etc. hinder planting a deed. And vehicles are moved off deed by GM on support ticket. Admittedly I would like if mayors were allowed to move (push/pull/turn) moored ships on deed, as it absolutely spoils fun when careless visitors land, moor, leave for good, and have a ship on the pier/dock in the most ugly way possible. But that is a different thing. And it must not grant any access on the hold.

 

 

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3 hours ago, elentari said:

It also creates a secondary more subtle issue. The appearance of a dead game. Games that look dead do not attract new players, ever. I know, I've tried some mmos in the past and when I realised they were dead, I simply quit. Area near starter towns filled with abandoned carts, wagons and general rubbish should imho have a mechanic to get rid of them. 

As a new player, if they see locked containers or carts, that means someone have played this game, created something. The more locked carts and containers means more people have played this game. If a new player see the area that simply have only trees and glass, consider it empty and dead, no civilization happened. 

 

As an old player like u, if u see abandoned locked container or carts, u said they make the game looks dead to u. But u said if the abandoned locked container or carts make u realise a dead game, u simply quit. But here we are, u are still playing, that means the abandoned locked container or carts didn't make u realised the game is dead. They just make the game looks dead to u.

The game look dead and actually dead are two different things. 
A game looks dead can be an enjoyable game, because it isn't actually dead to u.  


As an old player like other, some might want the locked container stay what it is, so that one day the owner return and have all the stuffs. or respect the owner choice to let it be a private container and decay as default by nature, or see it as a history of wurm to be remembered and someone has been a part of wurm, or make the archaeologist easier to find a disbanded place to get the cache.

 

3 hours ago, elentari said:

We already have a mechanic for a player to take care of his own items. We actually have several, but the biggest one is : deeds.

The moment a player lets his deed go down, it is clear that player doesn't want the responsibility to take care of his own stuff.

Besides deeds, we also have other mechanics to store your stuff : Prem an alt for a few silvers, and put stuff on him. Or use a bank. Or put stuff on your main.

Some people don't deed when mining, just make a locked and secured containers to store the ores. Don't want to make holes to their deed or simply want to save more silvers when there are a lock mechanic. The lock mechanic is free, simple, easy to use.


Its not clear that the player doesn't want the responsibility to take care of his own stuff when a player lets his deed go down, there are many of reasons. What make it clear is that simply putting a lock meaning the person wants to take care of the his own items. 


The alts, bank, main are not sufficient. Because they want to store large amount of items in the locked containers like BSB, LSU, BCU, etc. So lock with container is important.

 

On 5/9/2022 at 2:06 AM, elentari said:

offer so much protectionism to players that will Never come back to the game? 95% of the time they will not.

3 hours ago, elentari said:

I am just tired of seeing constant reminders of having mechanics that favour player lack of responsibility because heaven forbid someone loses in game pixels when he doesn't want to login to protect those pixels in the first place. 

The protectionism is for the player who return to wurm, they put a lock to protect the items inside a locked containers as a responsibility of a player to take care of his own items. The protectionism is for the player who are still active playing wurm. The protectionism are mainly for them.  About the protectionism to players that will never come back to the game, the players was a part of wurm people, the choice that they have made should be respected, locked container decay as default by nature in PVE servers. Wurm allow people to create impact to others even if u are gone, just like the archaeology.

Edited by Coach
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yes please.  i don't like seeing all of the rubbish around the place and having to push things away to get rid of them just cause they are locked. why waste gms time having them move locked items when those items could actually be used by the community in some way or the other.  why should people have to see some old left over players locked chests and other items.  okay you made a name for yourself on wurm and then you up and leave your locked items around that serve no purpose apart from get in the way of a nice game look.

 

know what, wurm needs a bank that is apart of the menu system.   then people can put their most prized items into it if they so wish.   or even better yet allow the creation of a warped space zone or another dimension through the use of magic or a quest or something.  then you can store all of your goodies in that magic space.  simple.  

 

story time.  when i came to wurm i saw lots of items all over the place.  i could not use alot of the stuff and some of the chests were locked and i got told that the players did not play anymore.  or the starter town was filled up with junk all over.  okay, great start there.  rubbish all over but no people.  like a junk yard.  yeah, there was once people here but they left to new lands.   know what else lots of items do?  lag!  some other people who i know and talk to tell me about how the more objects there are in an area the more lag there is too!    

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Just now, Wilczan said:

If someone wants to clear area for his deed, or just do not like some trash in his area he would be able to remove the clutter.

They can still clear the area on their deed by getting a GM to move them off deed. and most GM's will put them away from the deed, like 10-20 tiles from the deed edge, outside of the perimeter. If you need them gone farther, then you have to push.
 

And, again, the argument that having lockpicking on Freedom would lead to less clutter, no it wouldn't. Those wagons and carts and ships that are currently supposedly cluttering up that ideal spot you just deeded? They wouldn't be moved to some far-off, central location away from all eyes, they'd just be moved down the road a bit so you can't see them from your little deed. They'd still be cluttering up the place, just not your exact place. Same problem, different location.

I'll say it once again. Lockpicking WILL NOT solve the clutter problem. Lockpicking will only make griefing easier for those who camp out in populated areas waiting for a deed to fall so they can rush in with their army of alts and pick up all the valuables.

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10 minutes ago, DaletheGood said:

They can still clear the area on their deed by getting a GM to move them off deed. and most GM's will put them away from the deed, like 10-20 tiles from the deed edge, outside of the perimeter. If you need them gone farther, then you have to push.
 

And, again, the argument that having lockpicking on Freedom would lead to less clutter, no it wouldn't. Those wagons and carts and ships that are currently supposedly cluttering up that ideal spot you just deeded? They wouldn't be moved to some far-off, central location away from all eyes, they'd just be moved down the road a bit so you can't see them from your little deed. They'd still be cluttering up the place, just not your exact place. Same problem, different location.

I'll say it once again. Lockpicking WILL NOT solve the clutter problem. Lockpicking will only make griefing easier for those who camp out in populated areas waiting for a deed to fall so they can rush in with their army of alts and pick up all the valuables.

That's a waste of gm time. you know that actually a gm could just delete it right?    they have the power to do that. i've seen that control in wurm unlimited gm tools.  

 

then allow those wagons cart and ships to be lock picked too then but with a even greater wait time then.  here's a question.  how long do we wait for a player to return before those items can be unlocked and then actually used again?      otherwise they are just junk items with no use apart from as decs. 

 

that's why we also introduce even more ways to destroy junk items once picked up.  flames to burn carts wagons and ships with steel and flint.  if you don't want them to get in others way then lets speed up that decay by setting them on fire after a long section of time has passed.   make people aware of the fact that if they leave for a certain long amount of time and their ships wagons and carts are offdeed that they could be burned up and destroyed in a blaze.  simple.    

Edited by BoulderDash

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Just now, BoulderDash said:

i've seen that control in wurm unlimited gm tools

If you want to use that power, you should be playin WU.

 

Just now, BoulderDash said:

how long do we wait for a player to return before those items can be unlocked and then actually used again? 

as I stated above, wagons, carts and ships will probably not be used again because anyone with enough years in the game to hypothetically lockpick one of those already has enough of those things.

This whole lockpicking will clear up the clutter argument is just a smokescreen for people wanting access not to the container, whether it's a wagon, ship or chest/bsb, but to the contents inside that container. If you want to loot your neighbor's stuff that they've valued enough to lock, then go play PvP. There are already mechanisms in place to move those items well off your deed. There are also hundreds of spots to deed that do not have those "unsightly" wagons and ships. Go find a different spot if it bothers you that much. But stop trying to bring the dead PvP world into our small but living PvE world.

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There are several fallen deeds in my area including one right next door that I have watched over time and 90% of the containers on those deeds were not locked. Once the building walls fell or were bashed they were accessible to anyone. Those unlocked containers were still there even after the contents were removed by looters. Not one looter got rid of any "litter"! Only decay over time has removed any of that. So I'm not buying the need to lock pick to de-clutter the server nonsense. I've seen first hand that is not the case as only the valuables are removed while the "clutter" remains! The only thing lock picking does is make player valuables easier to steal!

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19 minutes ago, DaletheGood said:

If you want to use that power, you should be playin WU.

 

as I stated above, wagons, carts and ships will probably not be used again because anyone with enough years in the game to hypothetically lockpick one of those already has enough of those things.

This whole lockpicking will clear up the clutter argument is just a smokescreen for people wanting access not to the container, whether it's a wagon, ship or chest/bsb, but to the contents inside that container. If you want to loot your neighbor's stuff that they've valued enough to lock, then go play PvP. There are already mechanisms in place to move those items well off your deed. There are also hundreds of spots to deed that do not have those "unsightly" wagons and ships. Go find a different spot if it bothers you that much. But stop trying to bring the dead PvP world into our small but living PvE world.

i do play wu as well as wurm online. 

 

hmm.....you make a good point about the wagons carts and ships.  cause newbies can't really use those things apart from small cart and rowboat.   ah!  maybe they could be sold by the wurm game for silver.  make it apart of the cash shop.   a online game forum that i used to go onto started to do that with banned users items for example.  they started to sell their items for real world cash in their cash shop. 

people were pleased about it cause they could get items for cheaper then users might of been selling them for.

 

i don't like pvp.  it is too scary.  i like the idea that all items will be used again in some way by other users.   that's my deal.   if the items are locked in a chest or a bsb then they are not being used and are instead rotting away. just think of the good those items would do for a deed that is just starting out.  or some newbies in training.    that's also why i suggested ways to store items without them being tied up in in world items.  a kind of compromise. 

 

yes there are lots of spots to deed. correct.  but some of these unsightly spots are starter towns.  maybe items left by players that have moved on in starter towns could be cleared up now and again to make it look more tidy.  or maybe a auto wipe or something for those areas.   just to give those areas a nice clean look. welcome the newbies in. 

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Just now, BoulderDash said:

maybe items left by players that have moved on in starter towns could be cleared up now and again to make it look more tidy.

I wouldn't have a problem with that in theory if handled correctly. That is not the suggestion on this particular thread though.

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5 hours ago, BoulderDash said:

yes please.  1. i don't like seeing all of the rubbish around the place and having to push things away to get rid of them just cause they are locked. why waste gms time having them move locked items when those items could actually be used by the community in some way or the other.  2. why should people have to see some old left over players locked chests and other items.  3. okay you made a name for yourself on wurm and then you up and leave your locked items around that serve no purpose apart from get in the way of a nice game look.

5 hours ago, BoulderDash said:

That's a waste of gm time. you know that actually a gm could just delete it right?

1. The locked containers are not supposed to be used by community, because it's private, locked, that means they are only for one person or group and not for everyone. Even the gms sacrifice their time to show how important privacy is. Imagine a private dragon slay by a person without any permissions. 

2. Simply push and move the locked chests to the place where u can't see under current mechanic, there is a way, work on it.

3. To let people understand what is privacy, some people define wreckage as a nice game look, encourage communication like this. Maybe it will encourage people to unlock the container to other people if they leave after people calling it a mess or a problem. There are always have some purposes that people may not aware.

 

4 hours ago, BoulderDash said:

i don't like pvp.  it is too scary.  i like the idea that all items will be used again in some way by other users.   that's my deal.

I like the idea too, but the owner of the locked items don't want the items to be used again, that's why put a lock for privacy. Respect their privacy over the desire to loot. 

If ur desire to loot is over privacy, go to PVP instead. From what i understand why u don't like PVP, u don't want people to loot ur thing and its scary. But at the same time u want to loot other people's private items.
 

 

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8 minutes ago, Coach said:

From what i understand why u don't like PVP, u don't want people to loot ur thing and its scary. But at the same time u want to loot other people's private items.

This seems to be a big part of it, the desire for one-sided PvP; the ability to loot players who are unlikely to be able to track you down and loot you right back.

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