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timowi

Add a no gain phase after faith switch

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Being able to easily change your deity is a good thing. But changing faith every 7 days and trying to meta "optimize" all global cast for that purpose does no seem to be the intended use for that game mechanic. All priests can't change faith every 7 days. And most players seen to just don't do this.

 

I propose to either add a 3 month grace period after a faith change where you do not get any bonuses from your faith. Including sleep bonus from global rites.

 

Or set faith to -100 after changing faith and you need to pray to get it up. Only giving gains if you are over 1 faith again.

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i think this is going in the right direction however i do believe that a 3 month length of time is a tad long IMO i think that something does need to happen but i would not penalize that long however i would be a lot more accepting of a 2 week or maybe as longas a month period where swapping faith would have a penalty to bonus gains. as it stands now there is only a minor inconvienance for swapping faith and that has lead to this current issue of Meta that does make the rites (which should be treated as a special thing for everybody) a coveted resource for the elites that plan and swap their faiths regularly.

And yes i know my opinion is not a popular one but i also do not faith swap either considering my charactors choice a life choice and it gets frustrating to see the rite available and being told that we have to wait for (insert planned rituals) first. considering how long the rites take to be ready on the server i play on the most to have to wait is an inconveinance

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-1 Hard pass,  this is nonsense, if you don't wanna collaborate and cooparate with other players about global casts, then just cast it yourself, why does followers have to be screwed up for changing faith for  really? There's other reasons for change faith, like getting different bonuses etc, it's not everything spinning around NFI rite cast orders

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I agree, dont play nfi but dont really understand why its a problem people swap it around for min maxing. Can you do it? Yes! So why nerf others because you dont like the mechanism

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-1

Having faith also gives skillgain so its a trade-off

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So basicly you want to push your way of playing on others, no thanks.
 

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So if weekly faith swap is intended behavior why don't we have a public schedule when to switch to which faith? So all non priest would be able to benefit equally.

 

I want to collaborate and cooperate with the community to do the global casts. The current problem is the group of weekly faith swapers demanding to postpone the casts by weeks.

 

It's a disagreement if we should cast them fast to get more rites for all or postpone them long times to maximize SB gain for weekly swapers.

 

Maybe the devs can give us some number: How many actually swap weekly, how many are priests and can not at all and how many swap less then once a month.

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1 hour ago, timowi said:

All priests can't change faith every 7 days.

And they are meant to be gain advantages to balance that. That isn't to say that it is balanced. There are plenty of threads advocating for buffing priests, and I think most agree they should be buffed.

 

1 hour ago, timowi said:

Being able to easily change your deity is a good thing

If you create more restrictions to changing then it will become hard to change.

 

1 hour ago, timowi said:

does no seem to be the intended use for that game mechanic

Whether or not this is the case you'll always upset someone with a nerf. Especially, if you offer no benefit in return. In this case that'd probably be a lot of people. (So I wish you good luck)

 

 

-1

I see it as dragging me down without even pulling priests up, and that feels pretty shitty.

 

 

1 hour ago, timowi said:

that purpose does no seem to be the intended use for that game mechanic

Do you have any guess as to what that might be? (Trying to understand you! <3)

Edited by Zuelatak

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6 minutes ago, Zuelatak said:
1 hour ago, timowi said:

that purpose does no seem to be the intended use for that game mechanic

Do you have any guess as to what that might be? (Trying to understand you)

I think it's intended to get the different long term follower bonuses. Started as Vyn follower but want the Fo abilities now? Start as Fo but want to become Vyn priest now? Here you go! If it were for catching every rite bonus from every deity we would not have this 7 days waiting time in the first place.

 

The deities don not like being betrayed. They are still upset if you switch back to them. :)

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1 hour ago, kordethbludscythe said:

a coveted resource for the elites that plan and swap their faiths regularly

The elites being the priests that did the work for the ability to do the casts and then collectively decide to hold onto it. It's fair they get to decide, but

 

1 hour ago, kordethbludscythe said:

(which should be treated as a special thing for everybody)

There is merit to this ofc. But this change is hurting not just the elites (who would still continue to do this after a nerf), but a lot of people's gains.

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Better just remove or disable rites, if it's so much of an issue for some players then mess up with religion even more

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11 minutes ago, timowi said:

The deities don not like being betrayed. They are still upset if you switch back to them. :)

I mean hey some punishment sounds cool. Like having negative of the gods you left. But it's still a nerf (so again you'll probs need luck.)

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35 minutes ago, timowi said:

 

 

I want to collaborate and cooperate with the community to do the global casts. The current problem is the group of weekly faith swapers demanding to postpone the casts by weeks.

 

 

 

Then try to negoatiate with them to try and burn thier 10 alts sleep bonus faster not a game mechanic change

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45 minutes ago, timowi said:

So if weekly faith swap is intended behavior why don't we have a public schedule when to switch to which faith? So all non priest would be able to benefit equally.

I think I'm fine with this, but then you'd be nerfing priests and those who play them.

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9 minutes ago, Tor said:

Then try to negoatiate with them to try and burn thier 10 alts sleep bonus faster not a game mechanic change

The negotiation is actually convincing followers to pray past 20 faith, so they can even cast them faster >.<

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21 minutes ago, Tor said:

 

Then try to negoatiate with them to try and burn thier 10 alts sleep bonus faster not a game mechanic change

Oh you get it wrong. It's not about burning their sleep bonus. lets say they switched to Mag to get the rite bonus. Then they demand to wait with Fo (for example) rite one week. Because they have to wait 7 days until they can swap... And then another 7 days until Vyn fits theit schedule.

It's all about the 7 days waiting until they can switch again.

 

And we are not talking about delay of a few day but demanding to postpone cast by weeks.

Seems Vyn rite on cad can be casted almost once a month. And then swapers demand to cast it almost 2 month apart...

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9 minutes ago, timowi said:

And we are not talking about delay of a few day but demanding to postpone cast by weeks.

Seems Vyn rite on cad can be casted almost once a month. And then swapers demand to cast it almost 2 month apart

 

This is the part that gets me. As someone who doesn't play this dumb swap meta game, i get punished with considerably longer time between casts because of the swappers.

 

If you speak up against the swappers, the reply is "y u selfish no collab wit others.." but nobody is addressing the selfishness seen from the other side of the chessboard: rites constantly being delayed (sometimes quite a long time) for a big portion of the playerbase.

Edited by Borstaskor
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I see, i got it wrong at first. But still, this sounds like "First world problems" for me and shouldn't be mechanic change because you can still cast the rite, but i guess whoever claimed that is in "charge" of NFI and speaks for every players in there going to be passive aggressive towards you and got yourself cancelled. That sucks pretty much

 

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18 minutes ago, timowi said:

Seems Vyn rite on cad can be casted almost once a month. And then swapers demand to cast it almost 2 month apart...

That is certainly a problem. You might need to offer priests an alternative benefit that weighs out the loss of controlling rite casts. But if you're trying to make the caster suffer what you're proposing would hurt those who don't control the rites too. If you can figure out how to not ###### them over then you might get a more support. But again I think it's totally fair for those who own the casts to dictate how they're used. I'd prefer the system changed so they don't own them or we don't lose out with them in control.

 

Something to keep in mind though is that with each cast of rites they become more expensive with a decay or cooldown. So, it would balance out to a least some amount of time apart. Not saying it's almost two months but I think it's something worth thinking about. 

Edited by Zuelatak

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This thing is so messed up.  They say we need to plan and organize but when we did and had it set someone Ninja Fo on a different server so they pushed Vyn to Wed (5/4). But then they say they want to do Mag on the weekend (5/7-5/8) on another server, so we have to wait again for Vyn until the weekend following the Mag cast. First of all the Mag cast is not schedule in any forum that i can find and it is on another server. However Vyn was ready first and pushed already no since in pushing again. For all those that say it is better for all the faith swappers.. well look at the cast that have been done in the last 2 weeks. There is no way the faith swapper were able to keep up with all of them anyways. so i dont see the issue, just because we did not follow with Sinnjinn  and Pnuts schedule. they are part of the caster  for the last 2 weeks on different servers and different gods only 3 days apart from each other. Here are the fact that i can find.

 

Uterus (Fo) (Harm) 4/24

Alakazam (Fo) (Cad) 4/28    Sinnjinn

Vray (Vyn) (Harm) 4/29  

Pnutpriest (Lib) (Mel) 5/1

Shipwright (Vyn) (Cad) 5/4

 

Fyi - I have a priest of every God and one of mine was part of the Vyn cast on Cad.. I am a full time resident of Cad and I dont think we should let ther server dictate when we do our casts. 

 

Cad - Reckert 

Edited by WhFawn
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The drama and aggression from a certain group is the reason why I propose a game mechanic change. I'm not sure if I ever will be able to organize a global cast without having the 300 favor myself if everyone helping with the cast have to fear the vengeance of a certain group of mighty players.

 

Not only me but also the priests helping in the cast got notified afterwards we are banned for their "public" slayings. (No it's not public if you start to ban large parts of players!).

 

I think the bigger part of the community would not be affected by this. Remember I do not want to detain you from changing your faith but from doing this weekly. More player would benefit from rites being casted more often.

 

Maybe they can compensate this by giving us rites more often. Double the rites on NFI to compensate for only have the server count.

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Maybe ask for Rites to have 1 month or little longer cooldown or something like, that could possible protect you from passive aggressive players

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5 hours ago, timowi said:

Being able to easily change your deity is a good thing. But changing faith every 7 days and trying to meta "optimize" all global cast for that purpose does no seem to be the intended use for that game mechanic. All priests can't change faith every 7 days. And most players seen to just don't do this.

 

I propose to either add a 3 month grace period after a faith change where you do not get any bonuses from your faith. Including sleep bonus from global rites.

 

Or set faith to -100 after changing faith and you need to pray to get it up. Only giving gains if you are over 1 faith again.

The problem with this solution, and many of the "solutions" that are put forth for this issue, is that there's a point where it loops back and starts to hurt more people than it does the people you want to target for the "meta optimizing"

I think the resolution is basically what was said the last time this was put forward to change. Tell the people complaining to F off, because the game doesn't rotate around them.

 

I think the real solution that needs to be found is giving priests a bigger benefit from rites, so the people who can't do the poop sock switching still get a good enough upside to balance out people getting sleep bonus.

 

25 minutes ago, Tor said:

Maybe ask for Rites to have 1 month or little longer cooldown or something like, that could possible protect you from passive aggressive players

Redundant solution, dates of the rites already show that casts are pretty much always over a month between them.

Most recent Cadence RoS: 10:06 PM · May 4, 2022 - https://twitter.com/WO_Cadence/status/1521959454786437128

2nd most recent Cadence RoS: 2:32 AM · Mar 21, 2022 https://twitter.com/WO_Cadence/status/1505734041512857601

 

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Someone who changes faith might get +5 hours sleep bonus every week. Certainly they plan to, and some of them complain when they can't.

Someone who keeps their faith might get +5 hours of sleep bonus three times every 4-5 weeks — assuming they're on NFI.

 

My basic position is this: while you might feel entitled to 5 hours of free sleep bonus every week, because you are changing faith and visiting different servers, you don't actually have any moral ground to stand on. You'd be better off seeing the 5 hours as a bonus than an entitlement. Then you're less likely to have a problem with people who cast rites because (1) they can (2) they want the sleep bonus. At the end of the day, you have no right to ask someone to delay their less frequent bonus so that you can maximise your more-frequent one.

Edited by Sheffie
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According to wiki, new converts start with faith equal to one fifth of your preaching skill. 
99.99% people don't have 100 preaching skill, that means people 99.99% will not gain Exp. bonuses(Vynora +10% almost all skills / Fo +15% nature, healing, first aid, cooking / Magranon +15% Fighting, weapon, Shield, Archery / Libila +15% Religion, Alchemy, Natural Substances) after switching deity. Because they have less than 20 faith after switching deity. Unless u switch deity with points, but almost no one did that.


If a crafter stick with one deity with 20+ faith, they will get the Exp. bonuses for being a follower. This is one of the reasons why people don't switch deity.
Most of the crafters(not priest) choose to be a follower of Vynora because of the +10% skill gain to almost all skills. 


People want to get sleep bonus as much as they can, no matter u are a stick with one deity player or a switching deity player. 

How to gain the global cast sleep bonus for most of the players in wurm is what we can discuss.


Lets assume the global cast spell cooldown is one month.
Majority of wurm players are crafter and most crafters are Vynora follower, ROS should cast every month no matter what, so most of players get sleep bonus per month.
Of course we know switching deity can get more sleep bonus per month, then ROD, HC and ROTS should be arranged by the switcher. The switcher should never change the schedule of ROS because most players are Vynora follower.


Ninja cast will not affect Vynora follower to gain sleep bonus, because they don't switch deity. 
Ninja cast only affect the switcher because they can't switch deity after seven days.
One of the reasons why people did Ninja cast because switcher affect their Vynora follower crafter(Majority of wurm player) to gain sleep bonus, because the switcher decided to delay ROS. 


Followers of Fo, Mag, Lib, ur sacrifice of 5% of specific skill gain (15% for fighting) can benefit most of the people in wurm to gain sleep bonus as much as they can. 

Vynora follower crafters gain sleep bonus per month. Switcher gain sleep bonus from ROD, HC and ROTS. It creates less Ninja casts if there is no delay of ROS (majority of the players to gain sleep bonus). Win win. 

Edited by Coach

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