Tomatoes

New Player Tutorial

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3 minutes ago, Tomatoes said:

Let me attempt to sum this up a bit better because there were four(4) methods mentioned, and that didn't include my own preference, nor the most common method suggested:

  1. the "I'll do it myself(not new to wurm)" method
  2. the "I would like to do X and need some pointers(tool-tips)" method 
  3. the "i have no idea what i want to do, just show me how to do whatever(hand-holding)" method
  4. the "I'm a bit lost, however a push in the right direction will set me on my way(not new to sandbox games)" method
  5. the "i want to know everything through lore" method
  6. the "here is the wiki, find it for yourself(infodump)" method

I'm sorry what point are you trying to make?

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keep things simple.. you can't possibly dump time into 6 paths /guides with different focus/, it's not a wow-tier kindergarden, it's wasted time.. there are only a few people playing this... best to be done is to dump new content out there(fresh journal goals, learn from mistakes rather than refactor same thing over and over).. and possibly fix something unclear with the existing tutorial

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1 hour ago, Finnn said:

keep things simple.. you can't possibly dump time into 6 paths /guides with different focus/, it's not a wow-tier kindergarden, it's wasted time.. there are only a few people playing this... best to be done is to dump new content out there(fresh journal goals, learn from mistakes rather than refactor same thing over and over).. and possibly fix something unclear with the existing tutorial

Sounds like you agree for the most part that we need put time into bettering New Player experience and not the current players? I just want to note that popups would be very simple. Possibly tedious, but simple.

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2 hours ago, Finnn said:

keep things simple.. you can't possibly dump time into 6 paths /guides with different focus/, it's not a wow-tier kindergarden, it's wasted time.. there are only a few people playing this... best to be done is to dump new content out there(fresh journal goals, learn from mistakes rather than refactor same thing over and over).. and possibly fix something unclear with the existing tutorial

look closer: three of them paths are either done already, or in the case of the third, needs tweaking(#1, 4 and 6 in my list). Of the other three; Zuelatak wants to see 'tool tips', and I would like to see lore based and 'hand holding' options as well, which would be a mix of "tooltip" and "lore". Granted, doing 3 at once might be a bit much - if it was one person doing it all from scratch, and if lore wasn't on the player - however, its not like there is no lore at all, designing the tool tips isnt that much work, things just have to be seamlessly fitted together, and once that is done its pretty much child's play to "hold some ones hand" if they want/need that. ALL of that is developer end work.

 

5 hours ago, Zuelatak said:

I'm sorry what point are you trying to make?

I had two points actually: My first point was that i can handle seeing many different points of view, and I'm capable of balancing them all into a seamless whole as long as people are willing to cooperate with me and explain things from there perspective

the second point i have is that most of what you are talking about is developer end work, not player end:
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Its on us to flesh out the lore part - let the devs figure out how to implement the 'tooltips' part

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1 minute ago, Tomatoes said:

My first point was that i can handle seeing many different points of view, and I'm capable of balancing them all into a seamless whole as long as people are willing to cooperate with me and explain things from there perspective

Same. That's pretty normal as long as people explain their perspectives >.<

 

2 minutes ago, Tomatoes said:

Its on us to flesh out the lore part - let the devs figure out how to implement the 'tooltips' part

I mean we can come up with lore sure. I'd love to see you try and see if you could get people together for that. But I still think it's time/effort that is not needed to be spent for the majority benefit. Like if they figured out to implement the popup/tooltips then I think they should just implement and push that ASAP, and then with a later push when we're done they push a lore change. 

 

Also, us making the lore only lessens the amount of work the devs need to do, because they'd still need to implement it everywhere. 

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Posted (edited)
40 minutes ago, Zuelatak said:

Also, us making the lore only lessens the amount of work the devs need to do, because they'd still need to implement it everywhere. 

most of that work is 'copy and paste' work. 

 

40 minutes ago, Zuelatak said:

Like if they figured out to implement the popup/tooltips then I think they should just implement and push that ASAP, and then with a later push when we're done they push a lore change.

With the way we have been discussing the entire subject, it would not surprise me if they were looking into it.
 

40 minutes ago, Zuelatak said:

I'd love to see you try and see if you could get people together for that.

......and what have i been trying to do since the beginning of this thread?

Edited by Tomatoes

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I still don't see anything actually resembling a cohesive suggestion beyond more tool tips,

 

Check out the tool tips on the first few journal tiers 

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Posted (edited)
32 minutes ago, Archaed said:

I still don't see anything actually resembling a cohesive suggestion beyond more tool tips,

Well i did say we could use the current lore for the current tutorial - Last thing mentioned in any of the docs listed in the wiki is about "Wise men finding finding strange gateways in Golden Valley, and finding magic and monsters on the other side." Our CURRENT history on this side of the portals has yet to be written. 

that's the part that's on us - however it should fit with how things have progressed since then. and im talking large events that shaped the course of the game, like new servers opening, old servers disappearing, major updates(like rifts and highways).

for example, lets take the opening of new servers: some of the wise men on Golden valley have been studying the strange portals and have been able to redirect them to new places. - call it a general over view, not knowing the specifics behind when servers opened and in what order. 

servers connecting to each other can be described as players chancing the winds and sailing far enough to reach a place
 

massive updates can be described as players discovering new things in game.

EDIT:

old servers disappearing can be described as "Things there got lack luster and boring, and there are no adventures"
 

 

Edited by Tomatoes

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it's best to have a few new players try the game.. and listen what the heck bothered them while learning the basics..

 

metas etc.. that kind of stuff you learn off forums, discord, players leveled high on niarja

 

few infographics could simplify and show features like skillgain with stamina/enchant/sb... etc..

and the quote..

Designworks-Blog-Infographics-Because-A-Picture-Is-Worth-A-Thousand-Words.jpg

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Posted (edited)
54 minutes ago, Tomatoes said:

most of that work is 'copy and paste' work.

easy yes, but tedious. Tedious can be the worst kind of work because of the repetition. Though you learn a lot about repetition in Wurm lol

 

54 minutes ago, Tomatoes said:

......and what have i been trying to do since the beginning of this thread?

I'm talking specifically in reference to making lore which hasn't happened yet,  but you could certainly start here.

 

43 minutes ago, Archaed said:

I still don't see anything actually resembling a cohesive suggestion beyond more tool tips,

 

Check out the tool tips on the first few journal tiers 

I think this is my fault for using the words "tool tips" in the beginning as those are tradionally something you mouse over. I'm referring to more of popups that I showed examples of using Lost Ark earlier in the thread. IIRC Wurm doesn't have these except for I think we you get a steam achievement? Also, as I mentioned earlier those tooltips are not nearly enough guidance for New Players to understand what to do.

 

6 minutes ago, Finnn said:

it's best to have a few new players try the game.. and listen what the heck bothered them while learning the basics..

Aren't we here right now because people have spoken out through Steam reviews, and through the game reviewer's review in the OP?

Edited by Zuelatak

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31 minutes ago, Finnn said:

few infographics could simplify and show features like skillgain with stamina/enchant/sb... etc..

and the quote..

Designworks-Blog-Infographics-Because-A-Picture-Is-Worth-A-Thousand-Words.jpg

Finn, that is one suggestion i am ALL for. No need for Walls of Text when a picture can paint a thousand words. :D 

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On 5/6/2022 at 11:25 PM, Zuelatak said:

Yes this is also STANDARD for a LOT of games. I had to choose the server in Lost Ark BEFORE I got into the tutorial. Yes, this should be the thing players are first presented with.

I do not see your reasoning. You say it’s standard for a lot of games, but you only mention one. Does a feature being standard mean it’s good? That it’s gonna fit Wurm? Because, uhm, Wurm isn’t a usual game and personally, I do not see what it would add to the experience to have to pick a server immediately. A new player who’s used to PvP might pick a PvP server in the belief it’s like other PvP games they’ve played (that is even assuming servers are marked as being PvP or PVE) only to then find out its completely different. If you add a explanation at the end of the tutorial of how PvP differs from other games’ PvP and then you give them the choice, they’ll already have had a taste of how Wurm Online works and just how different and difficult it can be, giving them a much clearer idea.

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On 5/7/2022 at 5:09 AM, Tomatoes said:

Actually no, i got my information from elsewhere, and if you want the cold hard facts about it you can talk with the same someone who i asked, a psychologist that studies human behavior.

Did they play Wurm Online? Did they compile statistics and cold hard facts with evidence and sources for the evidence from their interactions with quitting players?

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6 hours ago, AragornII said:

I do not see your reasoning. You say it’s standard for a lot of games, but you only mention one. Does a feature being standard mean it’s good? That it’s gonna fit Wurm? Because, uhm, Wurm isn’t a usual game and personally, I do not see what it would add to the experience to have to pick a server immediately. A new player who’s used to PvP might pick a PvP server in the belief it’s like other PvP games they’ve played (that is even assuming servers are marked as being PvP or PVE) only to then find out its completely different. If you add a explanation at the end of the tutorial of how PvP differs from other games’ PvP and then you give them the choice, they’ll already have had a taste of how Wurm Online works and just how different and difficult it can be, giving them a much clearer idea.

Every major MMO to ever exist basically has this concept.

 

All the Everquests

All the Guild Wars

Rift

Aion

World of Warcraft

FFXIV

Black Desert Online

Star Wars

LOTRO

Lost Ark

 

just to name a few you may have played.

 

Most of these servers also include you pick a region, and the character cannot travel to another server without paying a large sum for a transfer fee, those on other servers often cannot interact with others in major ways - well, thats changing slowly.

 

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2 hours ago, Blazecraze said:

Every major MMO to ever exist basically has this concept.

 

All the Everquests

All the Guild Wars

Rift

Aion

World of Warcraft

FFXIV

Black Desert Online

Star Wars

LOTRO

Lost Ark

 

just to name a few you may have played.

 

Most of these servers also include you pick a region, and the character cannot travel to another server without paying a large sum for a transfer fee, those on other servers often cannot interact with others in major ways - well, thats changing slowly.

 

 

Yes but in all those games if you don't like it you can just log out to the character selection screen, delete your character and start over again elsewhere on another server.

Can't do that in wurm without creating a new account, or you get told in CA to build a rowboat :P

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