New Player Tutorial

[Zuelatak 235]

1 hour ago, Archaed said:

If you try to teach someone everything, they will not read a thing

This is what we currently do by leaving them with only the text walls that are the wiki.

 

1 hour ago, Archaed said:

The basics of interacting, crafting, and exploring are the key.

And those would be the single tutorial

 

1 hour ago, Archaed said:

It's almost as if this game is incredibly deep and complex

And this would be explained as they play through tooltips.

 

If you already agree then apologies. This is just making sure and/or solidifying the point.

[Zuelatak 235]

5 hours ago, Tomatoes said:

Among other things, yes that would be a big thing - however being shamed is another one. From what i have gathered over the years most people do not like feeling either condition.

Hmm well I don't think we can help the issue that people need to be comfortable asking for help from at least someone. CA Help, their village, their alliance, random passerby, someone. Maybe there's something we could do to make them more comfortable to use CA Help? I'm not sure what we could do tho. I think a majority of the issues will go away with tooltips and a more basic mechanic tutorial.

5 hours ago, Tomatoes said:

and what i am saying is that when a new person joins a game as 'open ended' as this one, a person's imagination can take off in unpredictable ways. the most stable people will just cope and survive, in some way, however sometimes a person will get stuck on things(something i know a thing or two about). the only way to get someone unstuck sometimes is to lead them by the nose to the solution.

I agree and this would be solved in my mind with a tooltip when they join a server that tells them to check their journal for ways to get started. And then the journal will have tons of categories for them to explore each with its own tiers of rewards that effect that specific category. If anytthing I envision a category for every skill somewhat like I mentioned earlier.

[Yggdrasil 233]

4 hours ago, Archaed said:

It's almost as if this game is incredibly deep and complex and a single tutorial won't be able to cover it all without being instantly skipped. 

 

If you try to teach someone everything, they will not read a thing. The basics of interacting, crafting, and exploring are the key. 

That's inherently untrue 

 

Also just throwing this out there cause everyone's talking about the review

 

He based 90% quitting off 10% getting the achievement for doing it

 

But do you get the achievement for skipping it? If not his estimate may be way off

[Zuelatak 235]

10 minutes ago, Yggdrasil said:

But do you get the achievement for skipping it? If not his estimate may be way off

Unsure, but I'm pretty sure the Steam achievements came later down the Steam release, and it doesn't account for those that use the downloadable client. 

[nitram20 90]

I still think that GV should be opened for new players and work as it did in the past, but with also an added tutorial that we have now.

 

This way you have all new players starting on the same server, no deeds so they can build literally anywhere, no dangerous wildlife, small map so they cant get lost that easily and they’ll have more like minded newbies to play and group up with.

 

This was and is a good concept, but had poor execution back then as you couldnt leave unless you bought premium. Allowing non premiums to leave while also giving them a choice to stay would solve many problems old GV had. 

 

I really dont understand why the devs are so against this…

Sure you would lose the stuff you built but telling people that the whole server is intended as a way to learn the game in a more “safer” way, and that they are free to leave if they wish to keep their stuff, would work.

 

A game so in depth like Wurm simply cannot be taught in a linear tutorial with walls of text. You learn by experience. And what better way to do so than in a safe, and relatively small but still open world environment like GV?

 

I dont know how it works but right now as soon as you finish the tutorial you must choose one of the existing servers, without even knowing what they are and what the game really is. You are then dumped into a massive and dangerous world. Bad idea.

 

i remember the old signs posted around New Dawn that explained how the world works. None of those exist now at the other servers

Edited May 4, 2022 by nitram20

[Finnn 3,318]

1 hour ago, nitram20 said:

I still think that GV should be opened for new players and work as it did in the past, but with also an added tutorial that we have now.

 

This way you have all new players starting on the same server, no deeds so they can build literally anywhere, no dangerous wildlife, small map so they cant get lost that easily and they’ll have more like minded newbies to play and group up with.

 

This was and is a good concept, but had poor execution back then as you couldnt leave unless you bought premium. Allowing non premiums to leave while also giving them a choice to stay would solve many problems old GV had. 

 

I really dont understand why the devs are so against this…

Sure you would lose the stuff you built but telling people that the whole server is intended as a way to learn the game in a more “safer” way, and that they are free to leave if they wish to keep their stuff, would work.

 

A game so in depth like Wurm simply cannot be taught in a linear tutorial with walls of text. You learn by experience. And what better way to do so than in a safe, and relatively small but still open world environment like GV?

 

I dont know how it works but right now as soon as you finish the tutorial you must choose one of the existing servers, without even knowing what they are and what the game really is. You are then dumped into a massive and dangerous world. Bad idea.

 

i remember the old signs posted around New Dawn that explained how the world works. None of those exist now at the other servers

Weren't some refusing to leave or be evicted from GV for years?

It's tutorial zone.. if it's opened again.. learn from mistakes.. if somebody refuses to leave in 48 to 168 hours.. kick them to indy tutorial zone, problem solved.

 

In other normal mmos this is solved by similar safe environment.. small noob map with no harm, carebear enemies to learn using some abilities/skills to murder enemies, few quests and then you're asked to leave so you could grow.

 

In a way that could be a thing for f2p up to 20 skill, but what's the point to separate them from the other players and world? I can't think of anything good, maybe a few points that will only harm them directly.

 

 

[Finnn 3,318]

As way to teach the players how to do things..

Knowledge UI or w/e it was called had things thought of.. really well.. you fall down some slope and get a wound.. - you get a tooltip wtf just happened, you go swimming or fall in water - same thing.. it teaches you about water stamina and DEATH, your hunger bar starts dropping - oh no.. you just learned about eating raw terrible edibles.. to keep the hunger away, etc..

 

Why the new tutorial didn't have more of that.. and interlink it with Old mini-wiki... IDK... old mini wiki was amazing.. you just have summed up information and whenever a noob asks what can I control with 21mind speed or something like that.. oh well right click that.. and you're now a rocket engineer and know just as much 15+ year old player knows about the topic.. from ONE SENTENCE.. now we have .. a browser in the game.. to open the wiki with whole lot of information, have fun reading the 1/+ pages of boring stuff you do not care about and sift through it .. to find what you need.

[Tomatoes 276]

7 hours ago, Zuelatak said:

And this would be explained as they play through tooltips.

lets look at this from another angle - without the NPC, what are quests: tooltips with goals - we are talking the same thing, just using a different verb?

 

5 hours ago, Zuelatak said:

Hmm well I don't think we can help the issue that people need to be comfortable asking for help from at least someone. CA Help, their village, their alliance, random passerby, someone. Maybe there's something we could do to make them more comfortable to use CA Help? I'm not sure what we could do tho. I think a majority of the issues will go away with tooltips and a more basic mechanic tutorial.

other then treating people like living beings, no not much else we can do about it.

 

4 hours ago, Yggdrasil said:

But do you get the achievement for skipping it? If not his estimate may be way off

dont you mean by joining the game before there were such things as steam achievements? XD - thanks for the laugh

 

3 hours ago, nitram20 said:

--Snip--

i didnt know this

 

1 hour ago, Finnn said:

Weren't some refusing to leave or be evicted from GV for years?

It's tutorial zone.. if it's opened again.. learn from mistakes.. if somebody refuses to leave in 48 to 168 hours.. kick them to indy tutorial zone, problem solved.

 

In other normal mmos this is solved by similar safe environment.. small noob map with no harm, carebear enemies to learn using some abilities/skills to murder enemies, few quests and then you're asked to leave so you could grow.

 

In a way that could be a thing for f2p up to 20 skill, but what's the point to separate them from the other players and world? I can't think of anything good, maybe a few points that will only harm them directly.

 

 

but this makes sense completely....
 

 

1 hour ago, Finnn said:

As way to teach the players how to do things..

Knowledge UI or w/e it was called had things thought of.. really well.. you fall down some slope and get a wound.. - you get a tooltip wtf just happened, you go swimming or fall in water - same thing.. it teaches you about water stamina and DEATH, your hunger bar starts dropping - oh no.. you just learned about eating raw terrible edibles.. to keep the hunger away, etc..

i remember similar things with the last iteration of tutorial island(not current), and as helpful as they were, it was never enough. this is where i nearly quit - being left hanging at the end of tutorial with no clear goals, a barely functional knowledge of the game. if it hadn't been for my RL friend, i wouldn't have known where to go, what to do, or even that i belonged here in the first place.
 

1 hour ago, Finnn said:

Why the new tutorial didn't have more of that.. and interlink it with Old mini-wiki... IDK... old mini wiki was amazing.. you just have summed up information and whenever a noob asks what can I control with 21mind speed or something like that.. oh well right click that.. and you're now a rocket engineer and know just as much 15+ year old player knows about the topic.. from ONE SENTENCE.. now we have .. a browser in the game.. to open the wiki with whole lot of information, have fun reading the 1/+ pages of boring stuff you do not care about and sift through it .. to find what you need.

i remember the mini wiki, and i was sad at its loss too, however sometimes that summed up info can lead one down a rabbit-hole. best to let people dive in if they want, when they want...putting a buttion/link to the proper wiki page to allow one to take that Deep Dive would be a good medium 

as i was lying down for bed last night i had a thought, an idea of a resetting tutorial zone, but one that kept a minimal infrastructure, just enough to allow minimal safety. like a guard tower right over spawn permanently or something simple just as simple. however for that to work the area would have to be useable by normal players. Having a popup every time you log in while on that server pointing out that it resets would be a good way to inform players there, something that can be turned off if a player wants, cause there is a debuff that does nothing but count the time to server reset

when i think 'quest' i think of an objective with an end goal, and in this case its skills to be more capable. call it a tool tip with goals, or what ever verbiage you want, but having all this on the one server would also allow some RP elements to come to play, which may end up being cool in the long run. having it displayed as tool tips would work, just as long as there are clear objectives and goals.

 

[Yggdrasil 233]

3 hours ago, Tomatoes said:

dont you mean by joining the game before there were such things as steam achievements? XD - thanks for the laugh

 

Are you trying to get a rise out of me?

[MordosKull 827]

What Archaed said was true, but yes, some sort of on-demand tutorial system could be helpful (even for vet players taking up a new task they are unfamiliar with).

 

Maybe an additional right-click menu option "Tutor" that is available on many items? I know that would be a ton of work to create but could give that on-demand experience. Or maybe a tutorial menu along with the other menus you get when you press the esc button which you can go into, search for an activity or concept, then get a small video or explanation of that activity.

[Archaed 2,280]

I swear, has ANYONE read the tool tips in the journal? 

[Zuelatak 235]

8 hours ago, Tomatoes said:

lets look at this from another angle - without the NPC, what are quests: tooltips with goals - we are talking the same thing, just using a different verb?

Quests are just the goal part. The NPC (Journal) tells you what you can do for a reward and as someone is doing it they get tooltips that provide information about how the thing they're doing works. They work together, but are separate features. You can provide more information with them being separate. Otherwise, the NPC (journal) would present you a text wall with the quest that people won't read.

 

8 hours ago, Tomatoes said:

other then treating people like living beings, no not much else we can do about it.

Then for now I guess we'll just have to put a pin in that problem and not be concerned with it as you said "nothing we can do" anyway.

 

3 hours ago, MordosKull said:

then get a small video or explanation of that activity.

I think the journal should cover all the activities instead.

 

2 hours ago, Archaed said:

I swear, has ANYONE read the tool tips in the journal? 

Yes and rephrasing the title as a tooltip is not very helpful. 

The only thing this tells me is that I somehow finish this journal using Archaeology, but that's it. There's so many more steps involved that it doesn't cover.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Let me rephrase when I say "tooltip" I'm talking a popup (not one that takes focus away from the player. Just something that pops up on the screen like a notification)

For example, I would love to see the journal eventually look like this 

 

 

Say I want to work on my Carpentry journal. I click the plus and am now displayed with (insert amount) of tiers. Lets say the first tier is

• Carpentry
  • Crumbs of sawdust (Title of the first tier)

    • Activate your hatchet

    • Create a mallet

    • Create 5 plank

    • Improve a item to 10QL

That first tier could reward the player with some sleep bonus.

The next tier could reward the player with 2.5% more skillgain in Carpentry skills

The next tier could reward the player with 10% more rarity windows for Carpentry skills

The next tier could reward the player with 10% more affinity windows for Carpentry skills

 

Once the hatchet is activated a popup could appear that lasts lets say 3 seconds or unless its dismissed early

 

 

Once they finish chopping the tree a new popup could appear that says "Right click a felled tree with a saw activated to chop it up into logs"

Once they create a log another can appear that says  "Right click a log with with a carving knife activated to make a shaft"

Once the shaft is made another can appear that says "Right click a shaft with a carving knife activated to create a mallet head"

Once the mallet head is made another can appear that says "Right click a mallet head with a fresh shaft activated to create a mallet"

 

And now they've finished the mallet entry which with the current system the tooltip for it would just say "Create a mallet using a shaft and mallet head" Which gives some guidance, but not enough.

 

Obviously the remainder of the tutorial would no longer explain how to craft things unless it later taught you how to use the crafting window. And obviously I haven't flushed everything out, so there's probably stuff that could go wrong but I believe the general concept would be the best way to handhold people through the game in a clear and concise manner that is trickling information to the player at a manageable rate. Also, with a system like this I see no reason to have a newbie zone GV like discussed. I think when an account is logged into the first time it should be immediately presented with the server choice menu and then when they load into a server a popup/notification/tooltip/whatever pops up directing them to hit J and look at the journal for how to get started.

[Archaed 2,280]

That, by far, is the worst idea in the entire history of this forum. 

 

Have an award 🥇

[Yggdrasil 233]

23 minutes ago, Zuelatak said:

Quests are just the goal part. The NPC (Journal) tells you what you can do for a reward and as someone is doing it they get tooltips that provide information about how the thing they're doing works. They work together, but are separate features. You can provide more information with them being separate. Otherwise, the NPC (journal) would present you a text wall with the quest that people won't read.

 

Then for now I guess we'll just have to put a pin in that problem and not be concerned with it as you said "nothing we can do" anyway.

 

I think the journal should cover all the activities instead.

 

Yes and rephrasing the title as a tooltip is not very helpful. 

The only thing this tells me is that I somehow finish this journal using Archaeology, but that's it. There's so many more steps involved that it doesn't cover.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Let me rephrase when I say "tooltip" I'm talking a popup (not one that takes focus away from the player. Just something that pops up on the screen like a notification)

For example, I would love to see the journal eventually look like this 

 

 

Say I want to work on my Carpentry journal. I click the plus and am now displayed with (insert amount) of tiers. Lets say the first tier is

• Carpentry
  • Crumbs of sawdust (Title of the first tier)

    • Activate your hatchet

    • Create a mallet

    • Create 5 plank

    • Improve a item to 10QL

That first tier could reward the player with some sleep bonus.

The next tier could reward the player with 2.5% more skillgain in Carpentry skills

The next tier could reward the player with 10% more rarity windows for Carpentry skills

The next tier could reward the player with 10% more affinity windows for Carpentry skills

 

Once the hatchet is activated a popup could appear that lasts lets say 3 seconds or unless its dismissed early

 

 

Once they finish chopping the tree a new popup could appear that says "Right click a felled tree with a saw activated to chop it up into logs"

Once they create a log another can appear that says  "Right click a log with with a carving knife activated to make a shaft"

Once the shaft is made another can appear that says "Right click a shaft with a carving knife activated to create a mallet head"

Once the mallet head is made another can appear that says "Right click a mallet head with a fresh shaft activated to create a mallet"

 

And now they've finished the mallet entry which with the current system the tooltip for it would just say "Create a mallet using a shaft and mallet head" Which gives some guidance, but not enough.

 

Obviously the remainder of the tutorial would no longer explain how to craft things unless it later taught you how to use the crafting window. And obviously I haven't flushed everything out, so there's probably stuff that could go wrong but I believe the general concept would be the best way to handhold people through the game in a clear and concise manner that is trickling information to the player at a manageable rate. Also, with a system like this I see no reason to have a newbie zone GV like discussed. I think when an account is logged into the first time it should be immediately presented with the server choice menu and then when they load into a server a popup/notification/tooltip/whatever pops up directing them to hit J and look at the journal for how to get started.

Its pretty apparant that a lot of us have ideas on how to address this, so how about we actually take action?

 

Lets make our own tutorial area, and if we do it well enough, maybe we can actually get things changed for the better. You interested?

[Zuelatak 235]

14 minutes ago, Archaed said:

That, by far, is the worst idea in the entire history of this forum. 

I see you follow the wonderful advice of Retrograde! "Provide constructive comments, +1's and -1's aren't useful, we overlook and ignore them anyways, post why you like or dislike something."

 

Have this award for Hypocrisy 🥇

 

I look forward to your reasoning at a later date!

[Zuelatak 235]

2 minutes ago, Yggdrasil said:

Lets make our own tutorial area, and if we do it well enough, maybe we can actually get things changed for the better. You interested?

I mean I'm totally down to help, but my suggestion is that we don't have a tutorial area because it would all my covered by journal entries and popups >.<

[Yggdrasil 233]

3 minutes ago, Zuelatak said:

I mean I'm totally down to help, but my suggestion is that we don't have a tutorial area because it would all my covered by journal entries and popups >.<

Thats why Im saying work together, like a committee. I personally think a tutorial area can work, we're just approaching it wrong. I think combining it with journal entries would be the most productive

 

Plus conflicting ideas would result in productive disussion

[Zuelatak 235]

23 minutes ago, Yggdrasil said:

Thats why Im saying work together, like a committee. I personally think a tutorial area can work, we're just approaching it wrong. I think combining it with journal entries would be the most productive

 

Plus conflicting ideas would result in productive disussion

While I do think my idea eliminates the need for a tutorial I do understand it's a big ask, so I'm all for helping with the smaller ask of a new tutorial. I already presented my ideas which are now in the OP if you haven't seen them. I think we just need to keep refining that list through discussion here.

 

[Archaed 2,280]

33 minutes ago, Zuelatak said:

I see you follow the wonderful advice of Retrograde! "Provide constructive comments, +1's and -1's aren't useful, we overlook and ignore them anyways, post why you like or dislike something."

 

Have this award for Hypocrisy 🥇

 

I look forward to your reasoning at a later date!

Sure! 

 

You both manage to hit the goal of overcomplicating the tutorial, and providing way too much information to a player to the point that there is no player agency in exploring the skills. 

 

I understand you feel that everyone would enjoy the game better if they "Just Followed This Exact Guide" but your suggestion is so far into hand holding I want to tell it that it's being clingy. 

 

The tutorial should teach you how to interact with the world, and give you the taste of what is possible, it's not there to guide you through every step and action you'll take in the first month of play and reward you with treats for doing so. 

 

 

[Yggdrasil 233]

2 minutes ago, Archaed said:

The tutorial should teach you how to interact with the world, and give you the taste of what is possible, it's not there to guide you through every step and action you'll take in the first month of play and reward you with treats for doing so. 

 

 

First point, agreed.

Second, also agreed

Third, why not? 

 

 

[Zuelatak 235]

12 minutes ago, Archaed said:

You both manage to hit the goal of overcomplicating the tutorial, and providing way too much information to a player to the point that there is no player agency in exploring the skills. 

 

I understand you feel that everyone would enjoy the game better if they "Just Followed This Exact Guide" but your suggestion is so far into hand holding I want to tell it that it's being clingy. 

 

The tutorial should teach you how to interact with the world, and give you the taste of what is possible, it's not there to guide you through every step and action you'll take in the first month of play and reward you with treats for doing so. 

Thank you for the explanation! Much appreciated. Now we can actually have a productive conversation ❤️ 

 

12 minutes ago, Archaed said:

providing way too much information to a player to the point that there is no player agency in exploring the skills

This is already  the case because of the wiki. However, with the wiki unlike my idea all that information is provided to the player in full whereas my idea drip feeds the information to the player as it is relevant. 

12 minutes ago, Archaed said:

there is no player agency in exploring the skills

The choice is still in their hands what do you mean? The game is currently what you are shitting on my idea for. If I like Carpentry and want to get the 2.5% skillgain reward to benefit my carpentry grind I have to do all of this ######

 

And how much of those requirements involve Carpentry? Literally none. Therefore, I'm forced to do ###### I don't want to get a reward to apply to what I want. See how stupid that is?

 

12 minutes ago, Archaed said:

your suggestion is so far into hand holding I want to tell it that it's being clingy

And what is the problem with it being clingy? You can ignore the popups, possibly turn them off with a setting, or dismiss them by clicking on them. All that would be left is a skill journal that rewards you for doing stuff in a skill you enjoy rather than being forced to do everything in the game to improve one aspect of it.

 

12 minutes ago, Archaed said:

The tutorial should teach you how to interact with the world, and give you the taste of what is possible

The 1st half I can agree on for a tutorial world, but the 2nd is what my idea is advocating for. Each skill journal would give you a taste of that skill and teach you the essentials on how to use that skill.

12 minutes ago, Archaed said:

it's not there to guide you through every step and action you'll take in the first month of play and reward you with treats for doing so. 

Not currently, but why wouldn't you want treats? The goal is to give quests that player's were already going to do anyway and reward them for it. Giving a sense of progression and journey to each skill. Can you explain to me why it would bad to reward the player for behavior they're already doing? I see it as making them feeling accomplished and satisfied with what they've chosen.

Edited May 5, 2022 by Zuelatak

[Blazecraze 452]

On 5/3/2022 at 9:57 PM, Tomatoes said:

My apologies, but was there anything constructive you would do different? I mean i totally get that criticizing someone's work is how 'most' people(not me) learn an understand new things, however when its mostly negative the only message you send is that the other person's idea's are crap and not worth the effort. 

But then you made this comment, which was possibly intended to get me to react(kudos if so). Now when i posted this originally i knew it wasnt a 'fleshed out' idea, which is why i brought it here, so that maybe someone else would see it and maybe make something useful out of it. Who knows, maybe someone would have had a way to adjust things so it works, even if its only a minor change.

My point, is that constructive criticism trumps destructive criticism. Would LOVE to hear what ideas you have Blaze.

 

 

I do not have anything I can submit to improve the current tutorial, in fact I don't actually dislike the current tutorial. However, as per suggestions by Retro in his lovely thread - which I am sure will make a good read for you - I am just expressing my well founded concerns in regards to this suggestion and the easily foreseeable issues that I had pointed out. That is all. 

 

 

[Zuelatak 235]

On 4/29/2022 at 8:26 AM, Blazecraze said:

This is highly unlikely and even just 5-10 new players joining would probably cap out any deeds that put their hands up very quickly

Speak for yourself 😜 This Lord is always welcoming for new peasants to join his deed >:3 

[TheTrickster 2,285]

11 hours ago, Archaed said:

That, by far, is the worst idea in the entire history of this forum. 

I agree that it is a bad idea, but I wouldn't call it the worst.  For example, pick a random Darnok suggestion.

 

[Tomatoes 276]

15 hours ago, Archaed said:

it's not there to guide you through every step and action you'll take in the first month of play and reward you with treats for doing so.

This part is just WRONG.(sorry Archead, it just is) Look any other game that has a decent tutorial zone - the popular games, not just YOUR favorite games....
Every last one of them leads the player around and gives them 'treats' -- the only exception to this i have ever seen are first person shooters and other games designed to allow a person to express their aggression safely --- and it is intentional - its how they keep people playing through their games. Now, i will grant that Wurm may be best in first person perspective, but this is no shooter, and no game to be 'aggressive' in(PvP notwithstanding)
 

15 hours ago, Zuelatak said:

I mean I'm totally down to help, but my suggestion is that we don't have a tutorial area because it would all my covered by journal entries and popups >.<

My apologies, but imho, REALLY bad idea. where would everyone spawn into the game? We dont want to make any one server more popular then the others, but at that same time there definitely needs to be a specific zone where one can learn basics without being attacked by every mob in Wurms existence. 

Also the way you are describing this tooltip stuff sounds suspiciously like pop ups for advertising, and im pretty sure that wurm does not need a million little itty bitty short phrases popping up on a player as they do something. A player encountering that would either turn it off immediately, or run away screaming.(thats like having your browser give you popups all the time :puke:) Its similar to how we dont need Walls of texts

 

 

9 hours ago, Blazecraze said:

I do not have anything I can submit to improve the current tutorial, in fact I don't actually dislike the current tutorial. However, as per suggestions by Retro in his lovely thread - which I am sure will make a good read for you - I am just expressing my well founded concerns in regards to this suggestion and the easily foreseeable issues that I had pointed out. That is all. 

Blazecraze, First: you may not realize this, but you treat me like child all the time, like you are MY AUTHORITY FIGURE, and that YOU KNOW MORE THEN I DO SO I SHOULD LISTEN TO YOU. that's what your intention was by posting Retro's thread. I would ask you kindly to please stop that, both here and in game. Its getting REALLY old. Second: i already understood your concerns. In fact, i understand so many its unreal:

• people dont want to be forced down any path
• people want options, clear goals, and clear instructions to reach them goals
• there doesnt need to be walls of text to go along with all this
• there dosent need to be millions of windows popping up constantly

this isnt all, of course, but should be enough to get my point across - I am not your child, nor are you my boss. Please stop treating me like that.

Edited May 5, 2022 by Tomatoes
spelling police