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Weslock

Please let's merge or at least open Defiance so NFI can exxperiance the game to its full potential

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5 hours ago, Weslock said:

you know you can buy Wurm unlimited and play by yourself

 

We don't necessarily only want to play by ourselves.  We just don't want to be subjected to certain aspects that would be unenjoyable.

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I beg to difffer. There are not "hordes of NFI players" left, and not few of them if not most are playing in an as civilized manner as the rest in all of Wurm. Moreover, I doubt NFI players are planning to invade e.g. Xanadu with her wide open spaces. Some may consider to resettle here and there in SFI but not a lot. There are simply not enough NFIers left for.

 

There may be a stronger attitude towards assertiveness and entitlement as was described before. This may have to do first with the economy having been overtaken and dominated by veteran SFI players using (even abusing) their headstart in knowledge of game mechanics. This created a strongly hierarchical structure and situation, and an atmosphere of strong competition. Same goes for the initial "land rush" denying newcomers the best spots, and the shortage of animals, mounts in particular.

 

This shortage was even artifically enforced, along with "deed hoarding" at the most attractive spots. I encountered it when going to explore with my alt, wondering that I did not find a single donkey far around the starter towns. I then learnt that they had all been slain, and were done so continuously as established players hated donkeys. In our starter towns, many hold a couple of donkeys in public pens at inns and market places to ease traveling for the not so many newcomers.

 

Yet those are attitudes of some established players, and certainly not all of them. There is a lot of cooperation and common sense in NFI as well as everywhere in Wurm. And there is ample space in NFI nowadays, as there are even enough animals. So it is likely that such behavioural traits are subsiding in NFI, and certainly not being exported to the wider lands of SFI. 

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39 minutes ago, Ekcin said:

Same goes for the initial "land rush" denying newcomers the best spots, and the shortage of animals, mounts in particular.

 

This must been pre-Cadence.  I travelled over a lot of Cadence, through a lot of prime unclaimed areas, on a large cart pulled by two animals with usually 3 or 4 mounts in tow.  I offered free mounts on global chat a few times, and in local quite often, and got no takers at all.  There were  also areas I had to be careful of traversing because of the number of hunter animals there.

 

 

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That's a reasonable argument Ekcin, and I do agree that the SFI'ers who went there on day one, with their 'min/max' meta game fully operational, are a big reason for the more aggressive nature of the NFI'ers. Those same people tho, are the ones, I believe, who are driving the merge or at least mostly in favor of it, because they undoubtedly have fully developed toons on each cluster, and if they've been dominating that market for 2 yrs, would dearly love to combine their bank accounts and workforce. Can't blame them actually, but is that a valid reason for the rest of us?

Also, a major theme/reason given by the merger crowd is the idea that we could entice some of that initial crowd of 25K back with some grand opening event or whatever. But, those are the same ones who got the full brunt of the 'grab everything in site, and kill all the donkeys' days of the opening, the downright cutthroat side of Wurm.  I hope none of us long-term Wurmians want to see the Wurm culture (PVE) turned into that sort of gameplay. But if all these one-time players come back in - even a mere 10-15% would double our population - and they bring that early-days of NFI mentality back, it could seriously damage the cooperative, welcoming Wurm culture, at least the one we have on SFI.

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4 hours ago, TheTrickster said:

 

This must been pre-Cadence.  I travelled over a lot of Cadence, through a lot of prime unclaimed areas, on a large cart pulled by two animals with usually 3 or 4 mounts in tow.  I offered free mounts on global chat a few times, and in local quite often, and got no takers at all.  There were  also areas I had to be careful of traversing because of the number of hunter animals there.

 

 

Regarding the mounts thing it does not surprise me I've found its very rare people actually want to accept anything like that when its directly offered to them for free in game. I've put that down to people either not wanting to take something and offer nothing in return (even though they don't have to) or maybe they just don't have their game at a stage where they want these animals yet. That being said everytime I've left animals in a free pen outside my deed they've dissapeared very quickly, although I would have no idea if its new or established players taking them.

 

I think Cadence also has a free pen in the starter town itself now so if new players are seeing that right off the mark I doubt they would need to accept help from Global or someone passing by.

 

 

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2 hours ago, HawkHawk said:

Regarding the mounts thing it does not surprise me I've found its very rare people actually want to accept anything like that when its directly offered to them for free in game.

 

I've been in a position like that a few times and it's... hard to figure out the etiquette for that. It's nice to get a free thing, but does that put me in debt somehow? Should I try to offer something in return, even if it's not asked for? Do I stay and chat? If I just thank them and go on with what I'm doing, does it look ungrateful? Just how much is the thing worth anyway? There's not much reference for that, especially for new players. For example with horses, a real life ready-to-ride horse is a big value gift, while in game they're worth much less. Also, what if you noob it up and get the horse killed soon afterwards, or lose the offered tool, etc. It'd feel bad.

 

It's much easier and safer to politely decline. Not saying that's a good thing, but I understand.

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5 hours ago, Lisimba said:

 

I've been in a position like that a few times and it's... hard to figure out the etiquette for that. It's nice to get a free thing, but does that put me in debt somehow? Should I try to offer something in return, even if it's not asked for? Do I stay and chat? If I just thank them and go on with what I'm doing, does it look ungrateful? Just how much is the thing worth anyway? There's not much reference for that, especially for new players. For example with horses, a real life ready-to-ride horse is a big value gift, while in game they're worth much less. Also, what if you noob it up and get the horse killed soon afterwards, or lose the offered tool, etc. It'd feel bad.

 

It's much easier and safer to politely decline. Not saying that's a good thing, but I understand.

 

i feel to much thought is going into it, if someone is offering something for free of course take it and have a little chat to them see how and why they are giving them out whatever it is. people would not offer things for free if they expect something for them or they would list it in trade. 

At the end of the day we are all a family in this game and i like to think we are more powerful and will enjoy the game more when team work is given. and this is a pure example of it one man gives a horse to someone they breed it make more and offers someone else a horse. it stars a chain effect that's a positive move, if everyone helped each other out then the game would retain a lot more people as people would be inclined to stay in a a positive environment 

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18 hours ago, DaletheGood said:

'grab everything in site, and kill all the donkeys'

Now there's a clan motto if ever there was one.

 

11 hours ago, Lisimba said:

It's much easier and safer to politely decline.

That I would understand just fine.  Being ignored is different, an as wsrich says, not a lot of thought needs to go into accepting something that is offered as free because it is surplus to my requirements.  The etiquette is generally, "thanks for that" and look for an opportunity to help someone else down the track. 

 

I am hopeless at trading.  Generally if I have something but don't need it and someone needs it but doesn't have it, I just give them mine.  Enough people gave me good stuff gratis early on that even if I give away something every time I play, I will still be in front for years.  I make "trade goods" that I then WTS, but generally I wind up just giving stuff to whoever can use it.

 

 

 

 

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We done even have POK there to catch up. Give us that for a few years then lets talk.

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On 4/19/2022 at 12:30 PM, HawkHawk said:

I started out on NFI with no real knowledge of the game and tbh it feels bad everytime I see anything SFI related and theres different guard towers, colourful Wagon designs, and all the other items we just can't get on NFI.

 

For me the primary purpose of the game is creativity and I can only see the option to build a wider variety of designs on NFI as beneficial.

 

I'm personally not that bothered about the Economy side of it so not going to make an argument either way on that front.

 

To be honest I feel that this is more of an issue with how those items can only be build on Chaos at this time. If these designs were simply available to everyone on the Freedom servers then that would greatly improve things (except for the folks making bank on these items at the moment).

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7 hours ago, Shinso said:

Lets Merge Already! :(

Please, no.

 

 

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"Divide and Prosper" has been a staple income strategy around here since Notch left.  However, I think it has reached the point where it is giving diminishing returns...  Someone PLEASE make the decision to merge the code and the player base while you still have both.

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I agree to Eyesgood. I fail to see much positive from keeping the clusters apart. The question remains what - technically - is preventing a merge at this time, more exactly, what is different in NFI code?

 

I am not playing a lot on NFI. So far, I could not see a difference in mechanics, but that could be just me. Ok, creature spawn seems worse everywhere on NFI compared to Xanadu, and I hope that this is not the mechanic the devs wanted to introduce everywhere.

 

I would like more transparency here. What is different, how is it felt by the players? Do we on SFI want these changes introduced altogether, or could they be reverted on NFI? Or just something inbetween. Anyway, I would like to know what has and will be done to us, and even more, when the code split will be fixed before it metastasizes and makes it impossible to harmonize.

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I think the economical consequence of merging SFI and NFI might be a litte overestimated right now, i don't think it will be so big, and we have many chars with 99-100skills in everything here already.

As i posted before, we might need some kind of mechanic that serves as a sink for rare / supreme items. And/or a new rarity tier that is actually obtainable, so that the endgame tool market doesn't get saturated beyond hope. (many people like me have 2 sets of rare-supreme tools, one in SFI, one in NFI, and who would need both? )

The rest of the economies will probalby be fine, not so many people seek profit with RMT gone.
Maybe there will be a huge spike on PMK stuff demand for decorating purposes, so good for them, i guess?
Maybe scale/imbue market will get hit a bit (even if it still makes a bit more sense, to keep a set of scale for every character, unlike tools), but is that really enough to stop a merge?

I don't see "hordes" of newbies taking over SFI because that is just extremely unlikely.

There probably will be, as a consequence, a bit too many linked servers, but i guess it's a bit too late to fix that anyway, as even too many, unlinked servers, is still bad.

Edited by Davih
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At this point I am fully convinced that separating NFI from SFI was a mistake from the beginning. You split playerbases, for what? "Omg the new people will be preyed upon by the vets in this huge economy ..." 

 

vs the reality "The new people are preyed upon by vets on NFI selling the same things for overinflated prices. 90 coc casts that are cheap as hell selling for waay more on NFI.". 


Some players did offer warnings this would happen, yet no one listened. 

 

Keep servers separate, see what happened to Epic? 

 

Open NFI or Defiance to SFI, know what's probably gonna happen? A lot will migrate to SFI or to servers with higher player density. Prices will go down, ultimately benefiting the players in the disfavour of greedy sellers. Such a tragic thing. 

 

We had thousands of free square miles on SFI and Epic alone when Steam opened and people were complaining they had nowhere to settle on NFI....jesus. 

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9 hours ago, elentari said:

At this point I am fully convinced that separating NFI from SFI was a mistake from the beginning. You split playerbases, for what? "Omg the new people will be preyed upon by the vets in this huge economy ..." 

 

vs the reality "The new people are preyed upon by vets on NFI selling the same things for overinflated prices. 90 coc casts that are cheap as hell selling for waay more on NFI.". 


Some players did offer warnings this would happen, yet no one listened. 

 

Keep servers separate, see what happened to Epic? 

 

Open NFI or Defiance to SFI, know what's probably gonna happen? A lot will migrate to SFI or to servers with higher player density. Prices will go down, ultimately benefiting the players in the disfavour of greedy sellers. Such a tragic thing. 

 

We had thousands of free square miles on SFI and Epic alone when Steam opened and people were complaining they had nowhere to settle on NFI....jesus. 

 

Of course it was mistake at least in terms of attracting and keeping new players and the health of the game in game in general but maybe not financical, idk about that. but still  one more example of poor decision making.

But everyone was too busy demonizing SFI players as some bad boogymans back then and pushing the new servers as the best thing ever happened to this game. But same as in Hotel industry changing the sheets won't make you get more customers

 

They are going to connect them eventually as PR effort to get some subs back, but only when the heck hits the fan and subscribers dried out and be like "yeah, we listened to our player base and now we connecting NFI and SFI". Probably no one would buy that as genuine at that point, as there's back track of evidence of constant ignorance about literally everything as no one takes the claims of "there's so much work because code difference" claims either.

 

I don't want to see them connected, ever So right now -1 from me. This game is pretty much in maintenance mode with so many other issues that this one exact doesn't really matter at this point

It's weird that this suggestion & Ideas  section on the forums even exist anymore

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1 hour ago, Tor said:

I don't want to see them connected, ever So right now -1 from me. This game is pretty much in maintenance mode with so many other issues that this one exact doesn't really matter at this point

I do want to see the merged but admit given the current pace of content that if this was to take any significant development time away from other projects, they better off staying as they are.

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1 hour ago, Tor said:

It's weird that this suggestion & Ideas  section on the forums even exist anymore

I have the same bleak feeling. 

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Every crying about spilled milk is moot. I do not even see the creation of the new cluster a mistake, as it gave a chance to all lovers of land rush, be it "old" or new ones, a chance to grab and develop a plot, and start a new character. And of course, it was an economic success. Even now, participation is significantly above what it was in the "crisis year" of 2019.

 

What was done wrong from the beginning, was to solely concentrate on NFI, for some time even mainly on Cadence, and actively to discourage start on SFI. There were pinned postings in steam forum (no idea if they still exist) denigrating and denouncing SFI, Xanadu in particular. Also, in times of serious overcrowding of NFI, it was missed to create a one way portal to SFI for those who wanted as proposed several times. Instead, initial population of NFI dropped to less than one tenth of its peaks in late summer after the launch. Having been 6 to seven times more than on SFI at peak, it is now down to par, sometimes less, sometimes more, denoting that the community is roughly split in half.

 

I do not see that sustainable in a longer range. And I fail to see dangers for SFI in a merge, or financial risks for the company. What would be important now, would be some transparency about the code split.

  •  What exactly are the differences, and how are they felt in everyday's gameplay
  • What effort is needed to fix the code split
  • Is there a roadmap about that

 

 

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3 hours ago, Ekcin said:

What was done wrong from the beginning, was to solely concentrate on NFI, for some time even mainly on Cadence, and actively to discourage start on SFI. There were pinned postings in steam forum (no idea if they still exist) denigrating and denouncing SFI, Xanadu in particular.

That was my main point of sadness. SFI was treated as this "hellscape" where apparently people from NFI I've talked to had the impression we had 1000 deeds per server , there was no room, and the market was predatory and terrible. Behind every corner apparently lurked a greedy SFI player that wanted to sell you a 50 ql hammer for 40 silvers. 

 

I kept explaining the opposite is true, we have plenty of room, due to the servers age, most items are cheap as hell because so much has been created over the years. 

 

No effort was made to steer people to SFI or Chaos or Epic. We have an expression in my language "It's the country of King Cattail", meaning decisions are made haphazardly without plan, no one is in charge, no one takes responsibility for anything. 

 

Yeah spilled milk as they say. 

 

At this point the owners have 2 basic choices  : 1. Wait until pop on NFI drops to absurdly low levels and then decide to merge, which pretty much will do nothing for the game since too much has passed. 

2. Merge now, merge the codes and try to do a summer sale / discount / event / marketing strategy to get more people into the game with a new "land rush", maybe offer discounts for making new deeds and prem discounts. 

 

Of course, there's choice 3. - > Do nothing and live in the country of King Cattail. 

 

Cattail for reference : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Typha

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People of SFI are just too generous. Number of times I've been gifted something amazing are too many to count.

 

Only economy I've seen so far is one of favor and promise exchange. Silver is for the deed upkeep lolol.

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all for the merge- id welcome the neighbors to SFI... if you're worried about people visiting your deed or having neighbors, move your deed on a mountain or play wurm unlimited solo?.

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