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christopher

corbs

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can we have the bottom of the ship lifted a bit to be able to clear the shallow water ways every one has made .these boats need purpose, and i load my horse in  and go to rifts or visiting ,i own a sailboat n a corb im not getting more boats fix the ship bottom just a bit up please , and a light on mast would  be wild

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These boats already serve a purpose.

 

A large cargo hold ship that can be built at relatively low skill level.

 

If anything, lower the cargo capacity of Knarrs so people will start making proper harbors/canals. Doesn't make much sense for a Knarr having more cargo space than a Corbita anyway

Edited by Kellen
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I've spent a lot of time digging out old harbours and coastal ways to make sure that corbs and larger boats can make it through - it sucks when theres places that aren't, but sadly thats the limits. 

A light on the boat would be awesome thou ;) 

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The Corbita already has a niche as a cheap/simple bulk cargo ship.

 

What's needed is the Wherry. A small, shallow-water boat that's easy to build and that can load a moderate amount of cargo.

 

Think of it as a floating wagon.

 

 

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On 4/14/2022 at 10:25 PM, Kellen said:

These boats already serve a purpose.

 

A large cargo hold ship that can be built at relatively low skill level.

 

If anything, lower the cargo capacity of Knarrs so people will start making proper harbors/canals. Doesn't make much sense for a Knarr having more cargo space than a Corbita anyway

This 100%

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I love my knarr. I for one, have a canal that is purposely built at knarr depth, so that the large, more "ocean-going" looking ships won't be able to pass. I have a small lake and those huge monstrosities would just look out of place on it. Aesthetically, those large ships should be restricted to coasts and only the largest bodies of water.

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30 minutes ago, DaletheGood said:

Aesthetically, those large ships should be restricted to coasts and only the largest bodies of water.

 

They kind of are already. That's what the depth limitations are for.

From what I've seen it's usually players that make the path accessible for the large ships which is what a sandbox game should allow.

 

 

Edit: On Harmony I went from running two Corbitas for deliveries to running a Caravel. Eventually had to step down to Knarrs just because so many people don't bother with deep water docks. 

Edited by Kellen
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Instead of reducing draft - what about the long awaited docks/piers as buildable structures?   Deep water boats were deep water boats.  If there wasn't a pier or some sort of deep-water dock, then cargoes had to be ferried by smaller shallow-draft boats.  

 

Allow a rowboat on big boats, and give a rowboat the ability to hold a couple of crates.

Edited by TheTrickster
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15 hours ago, TheTrickster said:

Instead of reducing draft - what about the long awaited docks/piers as buildable structures?   Deep water boats were deep water boats.  If there wasn't a pier or some sort of deep-water dock, then cargoes had to be ferried by smaller shallow-draft boats.  

 

Allow a rowboat on big boats, and give a rowboat the ability to hold a couple of crates.

Yeah, all that ^^

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On 4/14/2022 at 7:25 PM, Kellen said:

If anything, lower the cargo capacity of Knarrs so people will start making proper harbors/canals. Doesn't make much sense for a Knarr having more cargo space than a Corbita anyway

This to me is the issue. Knarr's are just too good at the moment. 

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Nerfing the knarr would cause an outrage and may make many players quitting. Knarrs have their role, lots of waterways constructed for them and carts/wagons/horses, deeds and alliances organized around.

 

Destroying part of the game only to benefit another one is poor design work. The corbita was created to ease creating bulk transporters for inter server and coastal transport, not to replace knarrs. It is one of the "smart" proposals like deleting ("consolidating") servers, well meant but with foreseeable detrimental consequences.

Edited by Ekcin
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6 hours ago, Ekcin said:

Destroying part of the game only to benefit another one is poor design work.

This unfortunately is just how balancing works. If you're going to criticize how poor it is then please also followup with your good design work solution and why you consider it poor, so that we may learn from you and do better. Otherwise, you're just holding us all back with no reasoning. 

 

People will always be upset if they are the side that gets nerfed or the side that doesn't get buffed. I think calling it "destroying" is a massive overstatement / exaggeration. Yes if the Knarr is nerf those who enjoy it will be upset as expected. However, Knarrs won't be DESTROYED they'll just be slightly worse than what they once were. If people find that Knarrs are completely unusable then people will post about it on the forums and a buff will then be considered. Not one that brings it back to what is was before, but better than what it became after the nerf. Balancing is the hardest part of game development and it's a long tedious process that we should learn to encourage and assist in. As a player you have to accept that your game may change on you at some point and a choice you made to cater your entire deed around Knarrs could one day backfire on you. It may suck for the immediate player, but it's a sacrifice that betters the game as a whole for everyone. Especially those that are new to the game who now enter a world that is balanced and doesn't force them to build a knarr because of how good it is. Sacrifices must be made and it's usually those that don't have to sacrifice that are always on board with a change until suddenly they need to sacrifice too and then they are outraged.

 

To fix the problem of Knarrs being overused and other boats not being used enough you either need to nerf the Knarr which is the quickest solution OR you need to buff all the other boats which is a much slower approach and with each buff / nerf can come its own imbalance causing this issue again. 

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Oh, sacrifice your big-ass ugly corbs instead of our knarrs. IF they nerf the knarrs, then they need to restrict the big ships to just the ocean, since they (historically) were only used for ocean-going voyages, and the occasional trip up a very large river.  But these tunnels for big ships onto tiny little lakes is already ridiculous.

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34 minutes ago, DaletheGood said:

Oh, sacrifice your big-ass ugly corbs instead of our knarrs

Please don't clump me in with the corb issue >.< I love my knarr

 

This post is suggesting that people are already sacrificing their corbs for your knarrs and they're asking for you sacrifice a little for them. 

 

34 minutes ago, DaletheGood said:

IF they nerf the knarrs, then they need to restrict the big ships to just the ocean, since they (historically) were only used for ocean-going voyages, and the occasional trip up a very large river.  But these tunnels for big ships onto tiny little lakes is already ridiculous.

This is good input by proposing how we should see that balance. However, if Knarrs do need nerfing I don't think we necessarily need to rework corbs (unless we nerf them to hard like I mentioned could happen). Otherwise, we run into my issue I mentioned earlier and we might as well just buff corbs at that point to catch up to knarrs.

Edited by Zuelatak

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Whining from people who got the wrong ship, simply cause it was easier to build.

 

People should read up before they start building.
I owned a corbita for half an hour once and then I gave it away.

Corbitas never could sail in shallow waters while knarrs could. In reality.

 

People want corbitas to sail viking style.🤔

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9 minutes ago, Cecci said:

Whining from people who got the wrong ship, simply cause it was easier to build.

That.

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45 minutes ago, Cecci said:

I owned a corbita for half an hour once and then I gave it away.

Sounds like it could definitely use a buff if it's only worth an hour of your time when this game consumes 1000's of hours.

 

46 minutes ago, Cecci said:

Whining from people who got the wrong ship, simply cause it was easier to build.

Whether or not this is whining (which it's not. It's complaining) who cares?! It's someone expressing their complaint and we should listen to that. Would you appreciate the same treatment if you had a problem with the game that you'd like changed? For instance, if you say wanted larger storage for snowballs and I just reply on it "You're just whining because moving small amounts of snowballs for you is too hard wahhhhh -1". Would that be a reasonable response to your post? Would you feel like you're whining? Or would you feel like you're trying to make the game better and would wish for people in your post to see that as your intent? How about we entertain this person's idea and weigh the pros/cons of corbs to knarrs and see if there's an unfairness in the system. 

 

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5 hours ago, Cecci said:

Whining from people who got the wrong ship, simply cause it was easier to build.

 

People should read up before they start building.
I owned a corbita for half an hour once and then I gave it away.

Corbitas never could sail in shallow waters while knarrs could. In reality.

 

People want corbitas to sail viking style.🤔

>corbitas could never sail in shallow water that's just realism, they're not knarrs!

 

Knarrs could never haul bulk cargo, you just want knarrs to haul European style

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Corbita-in-doorsnee.jpg

 

To further into this. 

 

A knarr had a 3' draft,  and was a more utilitarian adaptation of the war ship we all know,  the Longboat. It's origins are troop movement

 

The Corbita is not vastly different,  like the knarr it was a troop transport adapted for deep sea and cargo delivery.  However it still had a low draft 

 

The problem wurm has is poor scaling.  We're arguing realism in a game where stone shards make a solid slab when cut. 

 

A corbita shouldn't be able to go in as deep of water as a knarr, but the knarr also shouldn't be able to haul nearly as much as it does. 

 

However the difference in drafts is considerably closer than their differences in cargo size. If we wanted to argue realism the knarr should be the third lowest cargo ship.

 

The thing people seem to be forgetting with the corbita is how wide they are, which is how it gets so much displacement with such a shallow draft.

 

The argument could be made that corbitas shouldn't be able to fit through single tile water regardless of depths, but that's a fight nobody will win from.

 

And for the record, I own 12 caravels and don't have a problem with how they're handled. So I have no stake in corbita vs knarr.

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12 hours ago, Zuelatak said:

Sounds like it could definitely use a buff if it's only worth an hour of your time when this game consumes 1000's of hours.

 

Whether or not this is whining (which it's not. It's complaining) who cares?! It's someone expressing their complaint and we should listen to that. Would you appreciate the same treatment if you had a problem with the game that you'd like changed? For instance, if you say wanted larger storage for snowballs and I just reply on it "You're just whining because moving small amounts of snowballs for you is too hard wahhhhh -1". Would that be a reasonable response to your post? Would you feel like you're whining? Or would you feel like you're trying to make the game better and would wish for people in your post to see that as your intent? How about we entertain this person's idea and weigh the pros/cons of corbs to knarrs and see if there's an unfairness in the system. 

 

Eh... I don't collect snow, I have 12 snowmen in my freezer room. Why are you bumping such an old topic?

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53 minutes ago, Cecci said:

Eh... I don't collect snow, I have 12 snowmen in my freezer room. Why are you bumping such an old topic?

Snow one knows 

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19 hours ago, Zuelatak said:

This unfortunately is just how balancing works.

 

What is demanded is not a balance, but a nerf. The obvious intention is to make knarrs so unattractive that all internal waterways are turned from dual use to max depth. So it is a double nerf, of both infrastructure and transport, not just a balancing. The aim is practically to destroy the knarr, as below that, it will continue to be used as long as it is possible to transport wagons, carts, 4 creature cages, and a number of bsb and crates even if this hold were reduced.

 

Ship building is balanced. It is easier to craft the first two categories of ocean going ships, and easiest, after the sailboat, to craft a corbita. Corbitas run faster (solo) than knarrs, they have more (albeit not terribly much more) loading capacity than knarrs, and much more than Cogs, which are harder to craft, with the only advantage to run faster.

 

 

Quote

 Sacrifices must be made and it's usually those that don't have to sacrifice that are always on board with a change until suddenly they need to sacrifice too and then they are outraged.

 

To fix the problem of Knarrs being overused and other boats not being used enough you either need to nerf the Knarr which is the quickest solution OR you need to buff all the other boats which is a much slower approach and with each buff / nerf can come its own imbalance causing this issue again. 

 

Knarrs are used, not overused. Destroying the infrastructure of most of Wurm is not acceptable just to please lazy ship builders, and avaricious ship buyers.

Edited by Ekcin
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11 minutes ago, Ekcin said:

 

What is demanded is not a balance, but a nerf. The obvious intention is to make knarrs so unattractive that all internal waterways are turned from dual use to max depth. So it is a double nerf, of both infrastructure and transport, not just a balancing. The aim is practically to destroy the knarr, as below that, it will continue to be used as long as it is possible to transport wagons, carts, 4 creature cages, and a number of bsb and crates even if this hold were reduced.

 

Ship building is balanced. It is easier to craft the first two categories of ocean going ships, and easiest, after the sailboat, to craft a corbita. Corbitas run faster (solo) than knarrs, they have more (albeit not terribly much more) loading capacity than knarrs, and much more than Cogs, which are harder to craft, with the only advantage to run faster.

 

 

 

Knarrs are used, not overused. Destroying the infrastructure of most of Wurm is not acceptable just to please lazy ship builders, and avaricious ship buyers.

They are absolutely over used. The vast majority of ships at any public slaying are knarrs. I can could count deliveries I've gotten that WERE NOT in a knarr on one hand.

 

Bridges are just to please lazy terraformers and avarious deed planers.

Edited by Yggdrasil

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9 minutes ago, Yggdrasil said:

They are absolutely over used. The vast majority of ships at any public slaying are knarrs. I can could count deliveries I've gotten that WERE NOT in a knarr on one hand.

Your take. So if most use them, why reigning in? To say that, I love my caravel, and even my sailboats, and, for fishing and dredging for nearshore terraforming, also my rowboats.

 

Quote

Bridges are just to please lazy terraformers and avarious deed planers.

 

Don't see that bridges nerfed terraforming or deed planning. And this proposal dealt with corbitas, not ocean going ships in general. One could also argue that corbitas need to be nerfed, made slower, cogs given their hold, and caravels sped up.

Edited by Ekcin

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1 minute ago, Ekcin said:

Your take. So if most use them, why reigning in? To say that, I love my caravel, and even my sailboats, and, for fishing and dredging for nearshore terraforming, also my rowboats.

 

 

Don't see that bridges nerfed terraforming or deed planning.

Because majority rule is terrible and it's a level of survivorship bias.  Knarrs are overused and popular because they're OP.

 

The meta is king and when any single preferred choice exists,  it's due to poor game balance. This exists in wurms combat as well

 

If the ships were balanced we'd see a common spread of their use, but we don't. 

 

You'd have to be insane to choose a cog or corbita over a knarr, even the caravel gets overshadowed by it

 

I think it's perfectly fair to look into better balance, and you don't have to nerf to do it either, you can buff what's slacking.  That's why I'm interested in this thread. 

 

As for bridges and highways,  they absolutely had a negative effect on high end terrafotming and design.  They're a net positive,  but my point is, the game adapts.  

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