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[Red_ 332]

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Edited Sunday at 17:10 by Red_

[Homestead 324]

If it has ranges for most things, then can't hurt.

 

If it doesn't....   it is wrong. 

 

There are a few things that have a pretty well established price - mostly bulk 1s/k dirt/sand kind of stuff.

 

But to my experience, almost all the rage wars I see in /trade are just quibbling over a range.

 

Probably include the appropriate qualifying language - subject to change over time. Supply and demand changes change prices. etc.

Edited April 15, 2022 by Homestead

[Kellen 77]

As Homestead said, if it has price ranges it shouldn't make people too angry.

 

If it doesn't have price ranges, get ready to make people angry

 

I personally wouldn't mind having a copy either way

[Red_ 332]

Thank you both for the input!

The price guide I've been working on, does have ranges for a variety of items; Some items are priced direct (especially the bulk items);

 

If I release it to the public, I do plan to have it in a forum post, so that people can reply to recommend any price changes; I'm very willing to actively update it as necessary, just to keep things up to date as much as possible -- but yeah again, it'll just be as a reference. 

[Borstaskor 503]

5 hours ago, Red_ said:

The price guide I've been working on, does have ranges for a variety of items; Some items are priced direct (especially the bulk items);

 

This is one of the examples of something that should have a price range.

 

I'd consider the price of bulk anywhere between 1-2s depending on a few factors, such as:

• If the action to create the bulk is woa-able
• If producing the bulk is done using a desirable skilling method (for example: You can get excellent skill gain in mining mining iron while you can never get excellent skill gain in bs/carp while making nails or planks)
• If producing the bulk requires more or less attention (dirt for example requiring more than clay, even tho both is digging)
• If the item has pre-production actions needed (such as making 1k small nails also requires 200 mining actions)
• Basic supply and demand at the time of the transaction

 

I also don't agree with a lot of the prices I've seen recently in trade chat, as a lot of them seem to be random people parroting prices they've seen before without knowing anything. For example, for some reason people price nails at like 2.7s/1k actions (3.3s per 1k nails) but that could simply be because there's very low actual supply of it so the few ones who do supply it take advantage of it and sell them in 300-packages for 1s each. I'd still not consider that the "correct" price for it.

 

I'm not sure if it's a good idea to release such a thing to the public. If someone thinks it's useful, then that someone would follow the price advice of that sheet and I'm personally not a fan of a collective bunch of people following the price advice of a single player.

 

If it does get released, every single thing on the sheet should have generous ranges (for obvious reasons such as very basic supply and demand). No exception.

Edited April 15, 2022 by Borstaskor

[Homestead 324]

6 hours ago, Borstaskor said:

 

This is one of the examples of something that should have a price range.

 

I'd consider the price of bulk anywhere between 1-2s depending on a few factors, such as:

• If the action to create the bulk is woa-able
• If producing the bulk is done using a desirable skilling method (for example: You can get excellent skill gain in mining mining iron while you can never get excellent skill gain in bs/carp while making nails or planks)
• If producing the bulk requires more or less attention (dirt for example requiring more than clay, even tho both is digging)
• If the item has pre-production actions needed (such as making 1k small nails also requires 200 mining actions)
• Basic supply and demand at the time of the transaction

 

 

Well, yea. But only if it is just 'bulk.'

 

Which I can't imagine the OP meant.

 

But certainly "Dirt," "Clay," "Sand," etc are pretty much set - using some of the metrics you describe. (Not sure how many people consider woa-able when asking for a pc in /trade.

 

Also, I don't imagine anyone reasonable will consider it set in stone and there will always be variations on what any willing seller and willing buyer agree on, as that is an immutable law of economics. Hence the qualifying language "it'll just be as a reference."

 

6 hours ago, Borstaskor said:

 

 

I also don't agree with a lot of the prices I've seen recently in trade chat, as a lot of them seem to be random people parroting prices they've seen before without knowing anything. For example, for some reason people price nails at like 2.7s/1k actions (3.3s per 1k nails) but that could simply be because there's very low actual supply of it so the few ones who do supply it take advantage of it and sell them in 300-packages for 1s each. I'd still not consider that the "correct" price for it.

 

 

 

The example you list is just an example of why there must be price ranges.   You've seen people say one price. You think it is another price.  THAT is, by definition, a 'range.'    THEIR price is what they are willing to accept (willing seller).  If a buyer agrees (willing buyer), THAT IS the 'fair market value' at that time - by definition. That is Econ 101.  You're example isn't supporting why there shouldn't be a 'reference' list. It is an example supporting why their should be ranges shown for some things.

 

If someone is willing to put the effort into it, I see no reason why they shouldn't do a forum post showing their efforts. Anyone who doesn't like it is free to ignore it. (Anyone who wants to, will - "willing seller, willing buyer.")

[Red_ 332]

I just wanted to say thank you again for the input, and I'll continue to watch for anymore replies. I'll probably make a decision within the week. I'm leaning towards releasing it, I feel like it could be fun for the community as well, being able to have a tangible chart/spreadsheet of prices to be viewed. We'll see though. 

 

Any other thoughts are welcome, I'll check back in to read this post.

[Borstaskor 503]

17 hours ago, Homestead said:

(Not sure how many people consider woa-able when asking for a pc in /trade.

 

I don't think a lot of people consider this either, even tho 100 woa literally halves the action timer. 1000 actions of clay shingles takes twice as long as most other bulk crafting actions if you have access to 100 woa (technically more than twice the timer since faster action timer means less stam drain which also is a second snowball effect from it)

 

I don't know about other people, but I most certainly do consider it. If I hire someone to spend 1k actions on making bsb's for me, I'll be paying them considerably more than if they made 1k nails (the bsb one being an actual example I recently hired someone for).

Edited April 16, 2022 by Borstaskor

[Nicholai 79]

I think a reference could come in handy, but then again everyone values their time differently.  Perhaps that was what you experienced with the casting quote.

 

The price is what the market will bear, and high-ballers quickly find that out.  If implemented, I doubt my reaction to the first "But the sheet said..."  

 

...then more pricing arguments...  idk.

[Burdok 163]

Personally I don't see this being a good thing, I don't play the market game on wurm a lot, I do what I need to to get silver to get by but nothing more, and something I've seen lately as Borstaskor mentioned with the nails example is that players over charge for simple tasks like making nails, I mean most of us have crappy QL iron laying in BSB's/Crates from either clearing a canal, or shaping our mine or simply skilling the mining skill personally I don't think iron is hard to get your hands on so why are bulk nails so friggen expensive? That's only one example. 

 

Another example is shards/dirt/clay & Bricks

 

Why shouldn't dirt & clay be the same price? You say clay is less effort but both are digging, personally I don't see the "extra effort" the lands of wurm is covered in dirt, just walk one tile corner extra, I miss the days in wurm where you paid per action no matter what it was, 1k dirt was 1s, 1k clay was 1s, 1k sand was 1s, 1k shards was 1s because there only went 1 action into it, no nitty gritty irrelevant " 😒But I had to walk an extra tile, and I need crates to store it in because it doesn't fit in a BSB 😒 " So what, sell the dirt with the crates and charge for the crates like in the good old days. 

 

But the above system also has its flaws, because if you now only charge per action then other items like iron ribbons, support beams & concrete will change drastically because on most of these items people charge because of weight and how tedious it is to make it. 

 

I guess I just had a long rant and in fewer words I could have just said, it still comes down to how much the seller is willing to sell for and how much the buyer is willing to buy for and the art of negotiation. 

 

And I firmly believe in a simple principle, if everyone is selling something at a fixed price, sell more of it at a lower price until the prices all come down to SFI ranges 😎

[HawkHawk 299]

I really like the idea of a list for reference but think care needs to be taken to make clear its only a rough estimated guide and not a definitive list. Theres already too many arguments in Trade from people underselling or overpricing so theres a risk of adding fuel to the fire if a public reference list started to be seen as definitive.

 

What would be really nice is if there was a way to capture actual transaction data and automatically update an average price based on previous transactions. I can't see how that'd be possible but I can dream.

[Tukodama 315]

I think a "guide" like this would help new players a lot, it would give them a list of items to create to get their Wurm careers started.  It saddens me to see how many newer players are taken advantage of by more experienced players, whether the new player is buying or selling, just because they lack the experience of what items could be worth. 

 

Arguments in trade chat are silly because someone has the right to charge or decide to pay whatever they want.  Whether other players agree or disagree with said price is really irrelevant.      

[Red_ 332]

7 hours ago, HawkHawk said:

I really like the idea of a list for reference but think care needs to be taken to make clear its only a rough estimated guide and not a definitive list. Theres already too many arguments in Trade from people underselling or overpricing so theres a risk of adding fuel to the fire if a public reference list started to be seen as definitive.

 

What would be really nice is if there was a way to capture actual transaction data and automatically update an average price based on previous transactions. I can't see how that'd be possible but I can dream.

 

Yeah, my main concern is starting arguments (real arguments) amongst fellow players -- Don't want my price reference to set actual concrete prices. I will update it as much as possible, especially with community input!

 

My dream is also to have something like that where we could see the costs of items as they are sold, but since there's no real market mechanics (auction house/shop system) in game I can't imagine that happening either. My spreadsheet relies heavily on player input/honesty for now.

Edited April 19, 2022 by Red_
grammar fix

[Russwoods 75]

I have been playing wurm for over 10 years. On the old servers like rule of thumb was 1iron per action which equals 1000 actions per  1s/1k

 Did not matter if tools have cast or person needed the mats 

 

But 0n the new servers like melody and cadence. People wants prices to be higher because of mats they needed to get or cast on tools use. And to straight out greed

 

I would agree with others on this post. People will get upset and the price ranges need to wide.

 

Myself I play for the long game and get my own stuff as needed and for the skill

 But i do order cast since i have no priest. But that also would be hard to range. Since some but not all want max profit. And merchant also charge different price for different groups of people ( alliance. Friends .not liking the person but will do business with them anyways) how do you range that

 

I would suggest your reference book is a great idea but you would need to figure out the number of actions it would take for each item.then base your price off that information 

 

example 

 

Dirt 1 action

Brick (Type of stone does not matter) 2 actions. You mine the shar is 1 action then you turn it into a brick 1 action

 

Edited April 19, 2022 by Russwoods
Update

[Homestead 324]

Clearly the one thing this thread has shown is that there will be people who disagree with a price check. So much so that,  this case, disagreeing with he prices even BEFORE the price is known!

 

I repeat, in different words, more information is always better.

 

IF this shouldn't be published because someone would disagree, then there should be ANY /PC in trade - because someone ALWAYS disagrees. Everyone thinks THEIR price is the right price and everyone else is wrong.

 

 

 

Edited April 19, 2022 by Homestead

[Red_ 332]

- Slides in a Bump & Quickly Runs Away -

[Baeowulf 369]

Worth noting that I offer 50/60/70/80/85/90/95QL tool imps for FREE/FREE/30c/40c/50c/1s30c/3s for iron, and FREE/FREE/40c/70c/1s/2s/5s for steel

 

 

I also do not currently know of anyone matching the lower end (70 and 80) cast power for BOTD vs CoC. I think 70 BOTD custom casts are closer to 1s, certainly not 50c

Edited July 25, 2022 by Baeowulf

[Red_ 332]

21 hours ago, Baeowulf said:

Worth noting that I offer 50/60/70/80/85/90/95QL tool imps for FREE/FREE/30c/40c/50c/1s30c/3s for iron, and FREE/FREE/40c/70c/1s/2s/5s for steel

 

 

I also do not currently know of anyone matching the lower end (70 and 80) cast power for BOTD vs CoC. I think 70 BOTD custom casts are closer to 1s, certainly not 50c

 

Thank you! I struggled a bit with pricing casts for certain items since I only go to a select few people for when I need 'custom' casting done (you included :)), so I appreciate the feedback on cast prices, and I'll make some adjustments in the pricing!

[Baeowulf 369]

3 hours ago, Red_ said:

 

Thank you! I struggled a bit with pricing casts for certain items since I only go to a select few people for when I need 'custom' casting done (you included :)), so I appreciate the feedback on cast prices, and I'll make some adjustments in the pricing!

No worries! I understand it’s a rough (albeit, very good and well put together) guide and nothing exact  

[Red_ 332]

Update post:

First I wanted to mention, the price guide is still going strong, and I still update it fairly regularly!

 

The update for today's post:

I wanted to quickly mention that I've added a calculator to the price guide specifically for generating prices for gems you'd want to sell. The link for the calculator can be found in the top Notes section of the price guide. There is a short instruction section on the calculator spreadsheet as well on how to use it. If you have any questions/suggestions/comments as always I'm open to them.

 

A little backstory behind the calc if you're curious:

I always found it annoying in the past to go through and add up all gem qls and amounts to sell them in bulk (Always took so much time).

Hearing my complaints many times (idk how he puts up with me), Blueheart put this little calculator together for him and I privately, but I wanted to share it with all of you since I have found it super helpful!

 

I hope you all also find it helpful when or if you want to sell gems in bulk  Happy Wurmin o/