Monthly skins as crafting recipes instead of single use tokens

[Vorticella 958]

If I understand correctly, the idea behind the monthly skin system is that it's supposed to provide a reward that comes naturally by remaining premium. That's why the marks cost is the same as one month's premium time. There are several issues with the way loyalty skins are currently implemented that are causing a negative response with players. It's been coming up a lot lately in different chats, often with fairly strong feelings, especially since the skins started coming out for decorative items. This month's skin was particularly frustrating for me, because I've been hoping so much for a craftable version of the spring flowers we got for Easter last year, and this is why I decided to finally make this post.

 

The main problem with skins is that they are way too restrictive. They cost a full month's worth of marks, are only available for a limited time and then gone forever, they're single use, and can't be removed or transferred to a different item.

 

Everyone wants more decorative items in the game and it's not too often that we do see new things added. It's extremely exciting and always creates lots of enthusiasm among the players when it does happen. Knowing that the dev team is small with limited time and resources, it's painful to think of the time and resources being used to create these gorgeous models every single month... only to have them disappear forever without really being added to the game. It's a huge tease, especially for decorative items like this month's pottery vase. These monthly items are drastically nicer than any equivalent options we have available in game. The only remotely similar item for this month's skin is the flower pot, which doesn't fit the same decorative niche at all. We don't currently have any craftable item to display flowers on a table. Felt similarly with the recent lantern and statuette skins. Most people are going to want more than one of these types of items to decorate with, but at 4500 marks each, month after month, it's just not worth it. A big tease

 

My suggestion:

 

Instead of single use skin tokens, let us purchase the ability to craft the monthly skins. Only the purchasing player can craft it, and the recipe can still be limited to one month in the shop, but once purchased the player can then create as many of the tokens as they like, forever. They can't teach the recipe to others but they can make the skins for them (this also opens up a new market selling skins/skinned items, and more opportunities for players to interact with each other). This way skins are still a premium reward and the items can maintain a sense of "prestige", but the new models could actually be used and fully enjoyed in the game, while also improving the game and increasing player engagement. This would make much better use of the time it took to make the special models, it would make many players a lot happier, add more cool stuff for us to decorate with, and it would make the world that much prettier and more interesting to explore every month. Win win win win  

 

Wurmians don't want to just collect and look at pretty things, we want to MAKE them. If the monthly skins were craftable they would add so much more value and engagement, and they really would feel like a genuine reward for sticking around.

 

Vote: https://suggestions.wurmonline.com/b/suggestions/monthly-skins-as-crafting-recipes-instead-of-single-use-tokens/

Edited October 21, 2022 by Vorticella
Added vote link

[elentari 2,660]

7 hours ago, Vorticella said:

only to have them disappear forever without really being added to the game.

There was one suggestion to make all the previous skins buyable and it was shut down by a lot of greedy players on the idea "Well if I bought one, no one should be able to have it next month or else it will devalue mine * insert self serving argument screeches here * . 

 

Personally I'd like to craft them. But I doubt the parent company will want to remove a potential source of income. Artificial exclusivity + time limited offers are the name of the game to make a few hundred euros for some skins. 

 

I like your suggestion. But I am a bit to cynical to think it will ever be implemented. 

[Seriphina 1,223]

8 hours ago, elentari said:

There was one suggestion to make all the previous skins buyable and it was shut down by a lot of greedy players on the idea "Well if I bought one, no one should be able to have it next month or else it will devalue mine * insert self serving argument screeches here * . 

 

Personally I'd like to craft them. But I doubt the parent company will want to remove a potential source of income. Artificial exclusivity + time limited offers are the name of the game to make a few hundred euros for some skins. 

 

I like your suggestion. But I am a bit to cynical to think it will ever be implemented. 

 

So increase the price and make it a crafting recipe. It maintains exclusivity by being only available in that timeframe to be learned, and afterward only those who invested can make it. It creates even greater incentive to be there every month to get the recipe.

Edited March 9, 2022 by Seriphina

[TheTrickster 2,284]

Unless skins stop decay on non-repairables, and drastically reduce it on rapid decay items (e.g. clubs) they should be craftable recipes.  

 

I don't know about hiking the price, as the rate of marks for shop purchases makes that difficult for the completists.   

 

Also, old skins need to come back into rotation, in some manner.

[Vorticella 958]

8 hours ago, elentari said:

Personally I'd like to craft them. But I doubt the parent company will want to remove a potential source of income. Artificial exclusivity + time limited offers are the name of the game to make a few hundred euros for some skins.

 

I don't think it would reduce the number of people buying them, if anything it would make some of us (like myself) more likely to buy recipes for skins we might not otherwise have bothered with, just in case we want to make it some day. Right now I'm very reluctant to bother with them because of how restrictive they are, but if this was implemented I'd be buying them every month without hesitation, and would probably end up spending more to get additional marks for other shop items.

 

On that note, I disagree with raising the price for them if they are turned into recipes. The current price is already a full month of marks for being premium, and new skins come out every month. This doesn't leave room to purchase any other items if you want to collect all the skins. We have to spend extra money on premium/silver just to get more marks if we want anything else, like magic chests etc. If anything, the price should be lowered a little so we at least feel like it's an actual loyalty reward system and not just a microtransaction shop in disguise.

Edited March 9, 2022 by Vorticella

[Archaed 2,280]

They should not be craft able en masse. 

 

Sure, make it an item that is consumed in the crafting process if you want, but the idea of being able to spam out as many as you want defeats the purpose 

[Muse 2,222]

The skins are often beautiful and sometimes highly collectable, but I believe that, aside from trading them, they do not add much to the longevity or quality of of play.  I think that the length of time spent designing and implementing these items into the game (by devs) is probably far longer than any extra playtime they create (for the players). Play using these skins, is instant (skin is instantly bought and immediately applied, and so the fun is mostly all over at the start of the month) and thereafter any entertainment value tends to be of a passive nature, as they are largely decorative and do not usually affect the function of the game. 

 

In my opinion, craftable items = far longer, highly engaged and better quality playtime, and longer better quality playtime = more value for money.  I don't feel that the current skin system is as much 'value for money' as it could be, either for the players, or the game.

[Vorticella 958]

1 hour ago, Archaed said:

They should not be craft able en masse. 

 

Sure, make it an item that is consumed in the crafting process if you want, but the idea of being able to spam out as many as you want defeats the purpose 

 

What purpose is it defeating?

[Archaed 2,280]

7 hours ago, Vorticella said:

 

What purpose is it defeating?

The purpose of having it be anything other than just something that is added to the game. 

 

One person gets the "recipe" and then just spams and sells/gives away the result, meaning theres zero incentive to actually purchase it.

 

Don't get me wrong, decorative item skins suck, and I'm not a fan of them at all. That's not what the skin system was for. The decorative items should be simply model updates or new craftables, I mean this months, we HAVE flowerpots already! 

Edited March 10, 2022 by Archaed

[Drogos 516]

5 hours ago, Archaed said:

The purpose of having it be anything other than just something that is added to the game. 

 

One person gets the "recipe" and then just spams and sells/gives away the result, meaning theres zero incentive to actually purchase it.

 

Don't get me wrong, decorative item skins suck, and I'm not a fan of them at all. That's not what the skin system was for. The decorative items should be simply model updates or new craftables, I mean this months, we HAVE flowerpots already! 

 

What about keeping current system as is, but add in the option to somehow be able to get the recipes one year after it was released as a skin? Lets say it would be a rare drop from humanoids.

 

This way, it will still be an incentive to purchase it (you get it one year before release into the game).

 

But, this will also give a new incentive to go out and hunt! It gives new in game market opportunities, and it gives new players the option to get the old items to decorate with (instead of them being just relics of the past that they can never utilize).

 

I know some people have the mindset of wanting to be able to forever be "I have something that you can never have, and I am only happy if I can have more than you", but do we want to cater to these few, or focus on all the people that can get so much more to play around with? I vote the latter, and make Wurm a game where everyone is equal, new or old player

[Archaed 2,280]

Oh I'm all for old skins returning, I just don't think they should be permanent unlocks 

[Drogos 516]

6 hours ago, Archaed said:

One person gets the "recipe" and then just spams and sells/gives away the result, meaning theres zero incentive to actually purchase it.

 

I would not take it this far, there is lots of things multiple people do. Even tho someone else could make me a beehive, I still want to be able to make it myself. I even know people training up high crafting skills to be able to make their own drake set over purchasing it even if that in the end is more expensive (to buy scales)! I am pretty sure many people that play Wurm like to craft.

[Vorticella 958]

15 hours ago, Archaed said:

The purpose of having it be anything other than just something that is added to the game.

 

It would still be more than that, because you would be buying an ability rather than just a single static item. An ability is far more attractive than an item because you can never lose it, and it would also add an increasing sense of prestige for long term players as their collection of special recipes accumulates. That's a far greater incentive to stick with the game month after month than just collecting some stuff.

 

15 hours ago, Archaed said:

One person gets the "recipe" and then just spams and sells/gives away the result, meaning theres zero incentive to actually purchase it.

 

That's not how markets work. There is always a mix of people buying things vs making their own, and nobody is going to be the only one selling them. It's absurd to expect that one person in all of Wurm would be buying the recipes and distributing them to the entire population. Especially for the home decor skins. There would be many people competing for the sales, and on top of that not everyone likes trading. Many, many players prefer doing things themselves over spending silver, and I would expect most would prefer to have a crafting ability themselves vs depending on other people, especially if it's just a matter of spending some marks to get it.

 

9 hours ago, Drogos said:

What about keeping current system as is, but add in the option to somehow be able to get the recipes one year after it was released as a skin? Lets say it would be a rare drop from humanoids.

 

This way, it will still be an incentive to purchase it (you get it one year before release into the game).

 

But, this will also give a new incentive to go out and hunt! It gives new in game market opportunities, and it gives new players the option to get the old items to decorate with (instead of them being just relics of the past that they can never utilize).

 

This is an interesting idea! We could definitely use more interesting drops from mobs, there's no question about that, and I agree it sucks for newer people coming in or those returning from a break and seeing cool things they can never have. It's much better for the game if players are teased by cool things and can then strive to get them, even if the thing is very rare and will take time.

Edited March 10, 2022 by Vorticella

[Archaed 2,280]

Skins should be alternate styles of weapons, shields, etc. 

 

They should not be decorative items like dragons, bears, and flowerpots. 

 

 

[Vorticella 958]

39 minutes ago, Archaed said:

Skins should be alternate styles of weapons, shields, etc. 

 

They should not be decorative items like dragons, bears, and flowerpots. 

 

 

 

Yes! I agree. I had no issues with it before we started getting skins for decorative items. I do think it's a cool idea to be able to reskin those types of items, but not if it's being done like this.

Edited March 10, 2022 by Vorticella

[Katrat 2,296]

I've seen more decorative items purchased then those for weapons and shields etc. Most players tend to stick to a certain weapon and thus only buy skins for that particular item while the decorative skins appeal to many more players. I myself have three decorative skins and not one weapon or shield skin. Those I know who have purchased weapon skins tend to use those items just for decoration as well. I'm often asked to make gold or electrum items for their skins so they can display their fancy gold colored skinned weapons as decorations.

 

As to the OP I like the idea of more craftable items. Isn't that one of the things wurm prides itself on is the craftability it offers?

[TheTrickster 2,284]

On 3/10/2022 at 10:00 PM, Archaed said:

Skins should be alternate styles of weapons, shields, etc. 

 

They should not be decorative items like dragons, bears, and flowerpots. 

 

 

Or one of each every time  🙂

[DaletheGood 1,073]

On 3/10/2022 at 4:00 AM, Archaed said:

Skins should be alternate styles of weapons, shields, etc. 

 

They should not be decorative items like dragons, bears, and flowerpots.

 

I'm personally never going to get a skin for a weapon or shield, whether thru the monthly marks store or if they were available for purchase elsewhere. I will get the skins for decorations, like the just released flower pot, or the ones for chests, etc. if I like them enough and think they're worth a month's worth of premium. I have several of those that I particularly liked. Why would I buy a skin for a weapon I don't use, unless it was for decoration? But as another thread on here points out, there is no good way to display those, so I'd just be fighting the decay battle on it.
I got the dragon skin for my staff a few months ago, and while it looks nice when it's sitting out on a table I found that it was obtrusive when I played since I play in first person. I ended up trading it for a comparable staff and some imping. So, yeah, won't buy another skin for a weapon or shield, no matter what others say.

[Radircs 76]

On 3/10/2022 at 2:51 AM, Archaed said:

One person gets the "recipe" and then just spams and sells/gives away the result, meaning theres zero incentive to actually purchase it.

Then just add a small amount of Prem currency to the crafts like 10c or something. Nothing TO hight but enough to don't spam it. New system you get the skin like currently + recipe. For crafting you need all components of the item like you would craft it + the small prem fee for the magic to make it into the skin. This would artificial set a base value and drive people to buy some extra currency. Cheaper then buy the skin with marks if you look at their worth 1 to 1 but still. This way you have a market for it that is still driven by prem currency while of you set the price cheap enough find a possibility to acquire them in large enough numbers for your decorative needs.

You will probably have to run old skins like rotations every month on top of new one to get them out there for a year but yeah. 

 

[Gawain 622]

-1

[TheTrickster 2,284]

18 hours ago, DaletheGood said:

 

I'm personally never going to get a skin for a weapon or shield, whether thru the monthly marks store or if they were available for purchase elsewhere. I will get the skins for decorations, like the just released flower pot, or the ones for chests, etc. if I like them enough and think they're worth a month's worth of premium. I have several of those that I particularly liked. Why would I buy a skin for a weapon I don't use, unless it was for decoration? But as another thread on here points out, there is no good way to display those, so I'd just be fighting the decay battle on it.
I got the dragon skin for my staff a few months ago, and while it looks nice when it's sitting out on a table I found that it was obtrusive when I played since I play in first person. I ended up trading it for a comparable staff and some imping. So, yeah, won't buy another skin for a weapon or shield, no matter what others say.

I think the only "decoration" for which I have a skin the large chest.  I have skins for several weapons and tools, but this is in the rather pathetic hope of one-day being able to display them, apart from my sword and shield which I made of steel, then had them imped and then skinned them.  They are my EDC so are always displayed.  As I have not been playing much at all, I pretty much have every skinned thing (except the chest) in inventory to avoid decay.

 

OH!  How about skins for racks to make them display racks for skinned items!   A basic rack (also, maybe a tapestry stand), with a purchasable skin to make it a display rack instead of storage.  It gives decay protection, but displays the item rather than just a "full" model of itself.  Limit the capacity to 1 item (or one "set").  Imagine a sword display, but with separate swords and shield, each displayed as it would be normally and each able to be removed and replaced.

[Smwoodburn 181]

+1

[Ecrir 887]

I'd propose a slight change to this suggestion. Instead of being able to craft skins, which you can then apply like current skins, how about being able to choose what an item looks like when you craft it? You'd of course still need to have the skin recipe unlocked in order to be able to choose it.

This way there's still an advantage to the skin items as they are now, as they're the only ones that can be applied to existing items. Thus allowing for these two options to exist side by side, each with their own advantages.

Edited March 28, 2022 by Ecrir

[Vorticella 958]

Still feel very strongly about this idea and hope it will be considered, so I added a link to the new suggestion page. Please vote if you're tired of being sad about beautiful monthly skins being too limited

 

I'll put the link here too so you don't have to scroll back up to the top   https://suggestions.wurmonline.com/b/suggestions/monthly-skins-as-crafting-recipes-instead-of-single-use-tokens/

Edited October 21, 2022 by Vorticella

[Sheffie 1,120]

I like this idea, and it wouldn't destroy the game balance or market if the recipe for a skin involved, say, multiple gems and precious metals.