A Message From the HLL Artist About Bullying

[Nirav 571]

HI
There are a few things I would like to say to you all, and I appreciate anyone who takes the time to read this.  I can be longwinded and don't know how to be otherwise.
Some things have been said about my art, the PMK I did the art for, and in general about PMK art that have deeply disturbed me lately. Many of the assumptions made have been way off the mark. Some of them have been incredibly hurtful, which is why I am writing this today.  I am a professional acrylic 2d artist, and have been so for 30 years.  I can roll with the punches.  
But not everyone can, or should.  Some of the comments that have been made fall under the category of bullying.  The reason bullying is banned in this game, and other places, is because it can cause real harm to people.  Imagine if someone was much younger, and this was their first large scale art project that a bunch of people saw, and these comments came at them? They would not only leave the game, but they might actually be deeply affected by this and stop making art.  That is devastating. That is real, lasting emotional damage. Putting yourself out there as an artist is a vulnerable thing, and while it is good to have a thick skin, one should not have need of it because of damaging comments about their art and their intentions.  That is not the artist's responsibility.
People who put as many hours and energy into making something beautiful for a wonderful game, like I did, are not doing it for profit. They are doing it to contribute, to make the game a better place. I get zero coin from my efforts, by choice, because I don't do pvp on Chaos. I have a toon on Chaos that helps noobs, unaffiliated with any Kingdom, who has never killed anyone in the 5 years they have been there. But effort made towards a community is never without a desire for reciprocity, for we are all human, and nothing is created of pure selflessness. So I ask all of you to think about what an artist might want most if they get the very amazing and rare chance to make art that goes into their favorite game. 
Did you come up with the answer?
Mine is this:  I wanted to make people smile. 

There is a lot of work in this game. You see it everywhere. It is the entire visual representation of the world we make together here. It is ALL art.  Every DEV who sat down to design a tree, a blade of grass, a flower, a skin, a wall, did their best.  Every one of you who picked up and planted something 15 times to make it sit just right in front of the house did your best to make the world beautiful. It is all made of real effort by real people. Instead of shaming people for drawing things a certain way, stand and look at the art and see what you can learn from it.  Ask the artist questions. Realize the time that went into these creations.  If this kind of thing continues, someone is going to get actually hurt in a lasting way. We are all better than this. One of the things that makes this game different than some other multiplayer online games is our community.  Let's rise above this way of interacting, and care about each other, be grateful that we are all here together.  I know that I am grateful to be here with all of you.  Thank you all.  I hope something today makes you smile. 
 

Edited February 16, 2022 by Nirav

[Kingsponge 78]

As an artist myself I understand not everyone enjoys/admires/likes your art style, I myself don't like particular art styles. However, hating on ones art is not it. If asked your opinion, a simple "not my cup of tea" will suffice. If you do not like someone's art simply don't say anything otherwise 🤷🏼‍♂️

[Spolmit 621]

Nirav, I do not know you but would like to 'say' the following:

 

Bullying can take many forms none of which should be acceptable. 

 

I am no artist but would like to think that I can appreciate the talents demonstrated in any piece of work. As a teacher I completely understand the damage careless / thoughtless words can have on children and adults alike.

 

I also understand that for some folks subject to such criticism asking them to simply rise above it is not always possible.

 

I simply hope that you and other talented people will find that the vast majority of this community can demonstrate their support and admiration of the wonderful contributions made by many to support this game.

 

You all deserve our support.

 

 

 

 

 

[Nirav 571]

35 minutes ago, Spolmit said:

I also understand that for some folks subject to such criticism asking them to simply rise above it is not always possible.

Oh!  No, not what I meant at all. I was asking those who are being damaging with their words and actions to rise above that level of communicating and do better.  I am a teacher, too. 

Thank you for pointing this out. I edited that sentence. Hopefully it makes more sense now.

 

Edited February 16, 2022 by Nirav

[Atndy 385]

I'm sorry bud but there is a difference in "Bullying" and simply critiquing. But someone who is an acrylic artist would know the difference between acrylic art and pastel art. 

[Stormblade 617]

.

 

Edited February 17, 2022 by Stormblade

[Seriphina 1,223]

6 hours ago, Atndy said:

I'm sorry bud but there is a difference in "Bullying" and simply critiquing. But someone who is an acrylic artist would know the difference between acrylic art and pastel art. 

 

Comments I've seen in the past few minutes on this forum were not critiquing, they were mocking. And shame on the person who I'm referring to. You should know better, and not everything requires a mean-spirited "joke".

 

Edited February 17, 2022 by Seriphina

[Johnston3 73]

The comments in the HLL thread were extremely benign in the context of Chaos players interacting with each other.  I get that there was a lot of bad posts, but on a scale of 10, it registers as a 2.  You glossed over the context of a new PMK on a PvP server monetizing its design for a sales record.  While the forum PvP is off topic, for the issue that Chaos has it was so incredibly, incredibly benign.  If I were the artist and someone wanted to give an interpretation to if the horsemen are leaving or arriving then I would basically be rolling my eyes.  On the other hand, some of the signs planted around the server and deleted comments on skirmishes directed at Pandemonium (this isn't my PMK) have been pretty crude, tasteless, explicit, and vulgar.

[Nirav 571]

4 hours ago, Johnston3 said:

The comments in the HLL thread were extremely benign in the context of Chaos players interacting with each other.  I get that there was a lot of bad posts, but on a scale of 10, it registers as a 2.  You glossed over the context of a new PMK on a PvP server monetizing its design for a sales record.  While the forum PvP is off topic, for the issue that Chaos has it was so incredibly, incredibly benign.  If I were the artist and someone wanted to give an interpretation to if the horsemen are leaving or arriving then I would basically be rolling my eyes.  On the other hand, some of the signs planted around the server and deleted comments on skirmishes directed at Pandemonium (this isn't my PMK) have been pretty crude, tasteless, explicit, and vulgar.

I am reading here, "the cruelty wasn't that bad - it was worse for Pandemominum".  
I didn't see the comments in the HLL thread.  I am referring to the comments I have seen in GL, here on the forum, and youtube, which I am not going to scale by number. Everyone has their own metric for how something might affect them. For me it might be a one.  For someone else, it might cause them to quit playing or stop drawing. If cruelty is directed at people, that isn't on them to rectify. Whether it is level 1 or level 10, there is absolutely no reason to treat someone that way.  If cruelty is the culture on Chaos, leave it there. Don't bring it to three other places unrelated to the server. If we have an issue with cruelty being worse for someone else who did art in the Pandemonium thread, then that just proves the point I was trying to make here - we are creating an unsafe environment for artists to put themselves out there. I glossed over the idea that the PMK monetized its design because I had zero input on any of those decisions, and have no place answering that question. It's a wrong assumption, but I'm not going to sit here and defend or explain decisions others made. It has nothing to do with the point I am making here. 
I refer you back to my original post.  It is really simple.  Treat people with respect and kindness, rather than disrespect and cruelty. 

[Karrde 339]

A shame we are even here; however, here we are, and sadly I cannot say I am shocked or surprised.

 

Its one thing to be competitive in a pvp environment, and definitely a grey area to "roleplay" such behavior on a pvp server. However, no excuse bringing such into public venues and channels, let alone RL in general.

 

Its one thing to provide constructive feedback on a creation... being an ###### is not it.

 

Similar behavior and justifications for such behavior has happened before on several occasions, especially crossing numerous lines. Hence my utter lack of shock.

 

Course Emoo said it all far better than I years ago:

 

[Johnston3 73]

On 2/17/2022 at 10:54 AM, Nirav said:

I am reading here, "the cruelty wasn't that bad - it was worse for Pandemominum".  
I didn't see the comments in the HLL thread.  I am referring to the comments I have seen in GL, here on the forum, and youtube, which I am not going to scale by number. Everyone has their own metric for how something might affect them. For me it might be a one.  For someone else, it might cause them to quit playing or stop drawing. If cruelty is directed at people, that isn't on them to rectify. Whether it is level 1 or level 10, there is absolutely no reason to treat someone that way.  If cruelty is the culture on Chaos, leave it there. Don't bring it to three other places unrelated to the server. If we have an issue with cruelty being worse for someone else who did art in the Pandemonium thread, then that just proves the point I was trying to make here - we are creating an unsafe environment for artists to put themselves out there. I glossed over the idea that the PMK monetized its design because I had zero input on any of those decisions, and have no place answering that question. It's a wrong assumption, but I'm not going to sit here and defend or explain decisions others made. It has nothing to do with the point I am making here. 
I refer you back to my original post.  It is really simple.  Treat people with respect and kindness, rather than disrespect and cruelty. 

If you want an actual critique then from a graphics design perspective there is a few missed opportunities.  The usual format is a logo with a background (I'm 99% sure a few of them were preexisting and have been sourced) and the only thing wrong with the graphics is that they're sticking your head out too far.  The cruelty happens to everybody all the time, and as far as I know the GM team draws the line at physical deformities.  This is me contextualizing things for you.

[Nirav 571]

On 2/19/2022 at 3:48 AM, Johnston3 said:

The cruelty happens to everybody all the time, and as far as I know the GM team draws the line at physical deformities.

Legality is not equality.  

How can you contextualize something for someone if you completely miss the point of what they are saying, to address a separate issue entirely?  I don't care what you think about the art. I care about the cruelty and what it does to everyone.  Be better.