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Bloodreina

It's about time

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4 hours ago, TheTrickster said:

I think that is a generational thing. Some achieve change through leading it, some through persuasion, and some through pressure.

I don't think that's the case at all. 

 

I'm not referring to the grand scheme of things, I am referring to this specific instance. let's not lose the focus here and get into large scale social issues.

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21 hours ago, Baeowulf said:

 The majority of NFI agrees as well, and I feel like our voices are the ones that matter, not anyone on SFI.

 

Well I got no clue of how many on NFI that agree with you and Im sure you dont either, only way to know that is with a poll made so all could vote.

And not even then do we know since many of the player dont use forum so we will never really get the correct answer.

 

But I do know its not only us playing on NFI, that are the ones that matter in this case.

A connection between SFI and NFI consern all WO players not only those on NFI.

 

Im just curious why do you call yourself NFI player?

You joined the forum nov 28 2016 dont say you only been in forum all these years (?) surely you played on SFI to didnt you ?

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20 hours ago, Davih said:

And lol, also that, we once had a red dragon with over 600 logged accounts in nfi, i can only imagine if we had both clusters able to attend.

 

Alot of those are players from SFI that made characters on NFI just like you and me  .)

 

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21 hours ago, Loneshade said:

 less open deed areas etc. I however have not been blind to see that there are not many new players anyway and most players that exist on the servers are the same just different accounts.

If a merge with SFI and NFI there will be 8 new servers for those on NFI so I cant see the issue with less open  deed areas 

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18 hours ago, Eleraan said:

Um not that I care when/if they merge. But isn't the op a NFI player? Soon thier voice is what counts?

She is yes :)

 

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After finally working some skills into the 90s and getting to some profitability.....

 

I cannot see why I would want to suddenly be relegated once again to 'newbie' status by importing people who have been skilling for years longer......

 

So I can talk to people?  -  "GL-Freedom"   -  it is always chatty.

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12 hours ago, Archaed said:

That's not how change.org works, and I don't think aiming for external negative pressure is a good way to go about anything. 

 

Also, aren't you retired? 


I'm not sure why you see it as negative.

I imagine that some news like "Vox Populi, Vox Dei! Seeing a masive interess in this direction on an online petition, CodeClub AB, the company behind the Wurm Online game, decided to let their players shape the fate of the game further more, by organizing an in-game poll and letting the players decide by themselves if they want to merge their two clusters or stay separated." would be a great advertising to the game, not something negative by showing some developers that actually deeply listen to the desires of their players (even more than to the desires of their shareholders).

If you want to think at negative advertising, don't look at my change.org petition, but at the terrible mess with the last contest prizes... THAT is bad advertising.

 

Edited by Bloodreina
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37 minutes ago, Homestead said:

So I can talk to people?  -  "GL-Freedom"   -  it is always chatty.

 

Not only chatting, but participate to more events (more rifts, more uniques slayings, more impalongs, etc).

The average player, who is actually a consumer, not a producer, would greatly benefit from the economy merge. Yeah, sure, you and a few other hardcore players on the NFI cluster, would lose, but I'm quite sure that you are a minority (although I admit, a very vocal one).

But, dunno, maybe I'm wrong and you're in fact a majority. But who would be hurt if a poll (similar to the one done for Pristine and Release) would be done so the actual interest could be (accurately) measured and not just assumed by one side or the other.

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10 minutes ago, Bloodreina said:

 



The average player, who is actually a consumer, not a producer,

 

 

I suppose it is possible that most people only buy silver and never hope to pay for anything with their in-game efforts......

 

But.... My mind rebels against that assumption.

 

Remember, your credo of 'nothing except from your own efforts, not even enchants' is a very, very, very small minority.

Edited by Homestead
added a bit.

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20 minutes ago, Homestead said:

 

I suppose it is possible that most people only buy silver and never hope to pay for anything with their in-game efforts......

 

But.... My mind rebels against that assumption.

 

Remember, your credo of 'nothing except from your own efforts, not even enchants' is a very, very, very small minority.

 

I do agree that I'm a very small minority. I may even be one of the kind weirdo in this regard. But that is totally unrelated with our discussion.

Yeah, my assumption (which I don't claim is necessarily correct) is that most people see games as entertainment options for which they're comfortable paying (like a Netflix subscription, or a movie night, or a restaurant dinner, or whatever). So yeah, my assumption is that most players are comfortable buying their silvers with RL$ that they make at their RL jobs then use said silvers to buy whatever they need in game (deeds, items, enchants, etc).

As I said, I don't claim that I'm necessarily right. I just think I might be. Hence what I would like to see is an ingame poll where all players (or all premium players if you prefere so) can vote. Only then we (including the devs) will know for sure what the majority actually wants. Then, having the numbers at their fingertips, the devs could make an educated decision, because at this moment all we say here are just speculations.
 

Edited by Bloodreina

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22 hours ago, Baeowulf said:

It's not time. I don't feel it will ever be time, in the near future at least. The majority of NFI agrees as well, and I feel like our voices are the ones that matter, not anyone on SFI.

If you really wanted to play with friends, just do what we all had to do: Create a new account

This is an awfully arrogant stance. Aren't you one of the SFI carpetbaggers former players exploitingring the new prey to feast adventure/market opportunity on NFI? With all your intricate knowledge of game mechanics and exploits tricks which hit us on SFI with a couple of stupid and painful nerfs? And you are the majority? Really?

 

Ok, polemics aside. I don't know whether Bloodreina or you represent a majority, or both just some faction with a majority which does not care, and worse, has already left?

 

Did you recognize that most of the day SFI has more population than NFI, and its population was rising for months (appears widely stable now) while NFI suffered a long decline which fortunately seems to have slowed down, and hopefully is coming to an end? There is some risk that more and more players get bored being locked out of the mass of Wurm, to suffer from overpriced items and less events, and either heed your advice (I know some who did), or just quit. I do not fear for the future of SFI, but about NFI, I am not sure.

 

Where I agree to Reverent btw., is that the consequences for premium accounts should be considered, after all, the company has to pay for the servers and teams. Just dropping the cluster borders without any noise would be dumb. The opening should be celebrated as an event, or rather a series of events, and advertised in Steam, also communicated (in an non intrusive manner, e.g. email offering opt out) to all former Steam Wurmians from nearly 2 years ago (mind that is over 25k). Maybe one could win back a few of them.

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Well, as someone pointed out earlier, it is all really rather mute anyway.

 

A business is not a democracy other than the only ''vote' consumers have is with their money. 

 

The real question is only whether the developers feel it would produce more revenue than cost of coding the merge, coding the additional server travel, server upgrades to handle even bigger population surges for events, etc.

 

I do not know the answer to that. Though I have my suspicions.

 

Edited by Homestead
typos
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17 minutes ago, Homestead said:

 

A business is not a democracy other than the only ''vote' consumers have is with their money.

 

I "voted" by stopping to prem my 4 toons on NFI.
The clusters need to be merged before the differences in culture and community get too big.

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8 hours ago, TheTrickster said:

I sold my deed, and the last time I was on I loaded whatever I really wanted into inventory.  If/when a connection is implemented, I will probably bring that character to SFI, but until then it sits idle.

 

I have exactly the same story, if you replace SFI with NFI.

 

I don't like the idea of the community being split up. I can't see how it helps anyone. I suppose you could make an argument that it helps the devs because some players will pay for premium subscriptions on NFI and SFI, but that benefit has to be offset against the players who are angry to learn that they cannot travel the whole world, or meet certain other players or even trade with them. Imagine learning that there are three other planets like Earth where everything is cheaper, but you're not allowed to go there, because "it would destroy the economy".

 

About the economy.

  1. There seems to be general agreement that the balance of supply and demand has pushed prices down in SFI and up in NFI. It follows, then, that merging the economies would result in price increases in SFI and decreases in NFI. 
  2. Would a merge be good or bad? On balance, it's pretty much a wash. Consumers on NFI would benefit and producers would be worse off; meanwhile on SFI the converse would be true. The net effect would depend on the breakdown of populations on each cluster.
  3. I'm pretty sure that there are more consumers than producers in Wurm. That is, there are more players who spend their $$$ on silver and buy items with silver, than there are players who craft merchandise and sell it to pay for their premium. (Some players do both, and can be classed as net consumers or producers depending on whether or not they bring real money $$$ into the game.) And I am pretty sure that there are more players on NFI than SFI. In other words, I think that a merger would leave more players better off than worse off.

 

Problems with this discussion:

  • many players who voice an opinion are not necessarily being honest about which group they are in, or what their reasons are for wanting what they want
  • there's a whole running joke about how every player on Cadence is an alt - but it muddies the water more than anything
  • the devs have more information than we do, and their decision may ultimately be based on keeping certain "whales" happy, which means this whole discussion is academic
Edited by Sheffie
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If there's differences in culture and community, wouldn't connecting them lead to a large amount of people leaving? 

 

What is lost by connecting them, and what is gained by it? 

 

Additionally, what is lost by keeping them separate, and what is gained by it? 

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5 hours ago, Sheffie said:

there's a whole running joke about how every player on Cadence is an alt - but it muddies the water more than anything

Now you know I am newer/new purely NFI and Cadence :)

 

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6 hours ago, Sheffie said:

the devs have more information than we do, and their decision may ultimately be based on keeping certain "whales" happy, which means this whole discussion is academic

 

This would be the crux of the matter (one may infer this from the treatment of priests over the years).

 

I know a few people who play on both clusters, and I very much doubt they would keep both sets of toons premiumed up if a merge were to happen.

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16 hours ago, Homestead said:

Well, as someone pointed out earlier, it is all really rather mute anyway.

 

A business is not a democracy other than the only ''vote' consumers have is with their money. 

 

The real question is only whether the developers feel it would produce more revenue than cost of coding the merge, coding the additional server travel, server upgrades to handle even bigger population surges for events, etc.

 

I do not know the answer to that. Though I have my suspicions.

 


I also voted with my wallet, cancelled my subscription and uninstalled the game.

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It would appear that SFI and NFI are indeed separate communities with separate cultures.  

 

That gives me more and more doubt about simply joining them.  I think very few would be happy with the result - there would inevitably be significant conflict.

 

I still think some form of emigration may be suitable, being able to take at least skills and equipped gear, possibly also inventory.  Don't know about an animal or a vehicle - apart from anything else, where is the line drawn?

 

But then, probably before the separation of NFI/SFI is addressed, the separation of Epic from everything else needs to be addressed.

Edited by TheTrickster
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24 minutes ago, Bloodreina said:

I also voted with my wallet, cancelled my subscription and uninstalled the game.

 

Well you did not vote with your wallet when you made this post, as you were logged in less then 8 hours ago. You have also stated on the Goblin Leader slaying post on Cad that you would be there which starts in 5 hours after my comment.

 

You come and go at what seems like a whim. I understand wanting friends in the game, but how do you expect people to invest into you when you seem to come and go when things don't happen on the timeline that you expect. You posted 10 days ago looking for a friend, and now you are saying you are gone again. Wurm is a different beast then all other MMO's out there. Its a game of effort and time. You have set a pattern for yourself that shows that you are not willing to invest into the long haul of the game yet asking for others to reach out to you to be friends and spend their time getting to know you. That is hard to do when they see posts and comments from you that show you coming and going, unwilling to stick to a decision.

 

On a side note, some of the best people to get to know in the game are the merchants and traders in the game. Your style of play sets yourself up to isolate them, while your choice, cuts off a huge swath of players and resources of knowledge and friendship. While it is your right to do so, your choice of game play within a MMO sets your self up for failure if the effort and time is not put into finding what it is your looking for.

 

I wish you the best, Happy Wurming

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40 minutes ago, gnomegates said:

 

Well you did not vote with your wallet when you made this post, as you were logged in less then 8 hours ago. You have also stated on the Goblin Leader slaying post on Cad that you would be there which starts in 5 hours after my comment.

 

You come and go at what seems like a whim. I understand wanting friends in the game, but how do you expect people to invest into you when you seem to come and go when things don't happen on the timeline that you expect. You posted 10 days ago looking for a friend, and now you are saying you are gone again. Wurm is a different beast then all other MMO's out there. Its a game of effort and time. You have set a pattern for yourself that shows that you are not willing to invest into the long haul of the game yet asking for others to reach out to you to be friends and spend their time getting to know you. That is hard to do when they see posts and comments from you that show you coming and going, unwilling to stick to a decision.

 

On a side note, some of the best people to get to know in the game are the merchants and traders in the game. Your style of play sets yourself up to isolate them, while your choice, cuts off a huge swath of players and resources of knowledge and friendship. While it is your right to do so, your choice of game play within a MMO sets your self up for failure if the effort and time is not put into finding what it is your looking for.

 

I wish you the best, Happy Wurming

 

That's not about me, but if you insist... 

I always loved the game, but I was constantly disappointed about the emptiness of the world and the lack of social interactions. It is one of the very best games that I ever played, but also one of the games where I felt most lonely. Yes, I did tried finding friends, and, generally, a community on NFI and I failed. Most people that reached out to me were from SFI and while I didn't had the chance to talk too much with them, they did sound nice and helpful. However, considering I do have more than three years of both premium time and upkeep on NFI, I really didn't felt like spending even more money to create a new avatar on SFI. And even if I would, I would still only have access to a limited number of events (those on SFI).

Hence, I started this, hoping that I could eventually travel to SFI and end up meeting more people, participate in more events and so on. Seeing the reaction and realizing that it won't happen I decided to vote with my wallet and with my time and stop playing the game until (if ever) the two clusters will be reunited because I am simply unhappy with the amount of people / events on the NFI alone and I don't understand why I can't experience all the events and explore the whole world (without paying two subscriptions and splitting my time) because of the greed of some hardcore traders.

And yeah, I may be a bit jumpy, coming and going in what seems like a whim as you said. But I think it's an absolutely normal thing for someone of my age to not stay glued to a game that feel stale, lonely and boring. And if you want Wurm to survive and flourish, you have to consider the needs of the people in the younger generations and at least try to cater to them too by having more events, more interactive content, etc. And it's really not about me here. I am just a single person and not a very important one for that matter so feel free to ignore me. But still, if you want Wurm to grow or even survive another 15 years, you can't ignore the specifics of the younger people/generations and/or expect them to behave like 40+ years old people.

 

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Also, since I decided to stop playing / take a break 'till the clusters will be merged (if ever), I will stop checking the forums too.

So I'd appreciate if you'd focus on the discussion at hand and not on my person.

Anyway, even if you'll do the former, I won't be here to replay, so don't assume that I run out of arguments or anything, but just out of interest.

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Regardless of any poll, wich is doomed to fail for a few reason and I'll explain those.  It appears that anyone that doesn't want to connect is a seller, wholesale, retail, whatever you want to call it and most of those are former or current SFI players.  Face it, they've had years to skill up and know the tricks, fast tracks and short cuts to be able to quickly corner the market on NFI.

 

Anyone that says Oh Ii left SFI to play on NFI and if i wanted them connect woulda stayed on SFI are more than likely one of the above folks.

 

Granted, there are those that left SFI to play on NFI for the adventure, the freshness, the starting from scratch feeling, but how many of those remain and honestly how many aren't ready for a merge.

 

Any poll on this topic is doomed to fail, for a few reason, in my opinion.

 

1. Anyone polled will be the vocal ones that log on, these will be the mass producers with the alt armies, with the excess acounts that can vote based on what they want. Greed, Isolation, whatever reason, the vote will be skewed in their favor.  New players, might not understand the full impact of this choice and some if not most are not active or even registered on the forums so their voices may never be heard.

 

2. Even with an in game vote, this vote will still be skewed to those vocal majority that do not want the connection.  How do you differentiate between an Main Vote and an Alt Vote, mac address check? vpn can spoof that easy.  Premium vs Non-Premium? Why some folks might not have gone premium.  Older Accounts those created since opening vs new ones? Why leave out the new players, isn't that what we're trying to attract?  Again, who will be the vocal majority on voting down a connection... go figure.

 

3. Fear. Propaganda of 'Oh my gawd you are gonna loose so much business, you're gonna loose money, these folks ( either side ) are going to flood the market, drive prices down, stabilize the economy, you won't be able to charge 1s for a freaking rare rock shard anymore, End of the world cats  n dogs living together total anarchy... oh wait... non of that crap will happen.   

 

Useless Arguments Against Connection.

 

The economy.

 

The economy will fluctuate no matter what, less players more players higher prices low demand high supplies, all of this is the normal process of an economy. The problem is, that the longer the non connection goes on the longer it will take to compensate after a connection.  Higher level skills higher level of cornering of the market on Both sides will lead to more not wanting a connection, not realizing that they are cutting off their own gain of new business with new customers. 

 

What's the difference of adding 20 SFI players or NFI players connected to each other with 90+ skill sets than individuals on NFI and SFI gaining those skills not connected... customer base.  YOU WILL see lower prices as more and more competition rises on each side with or without the connection. Regardless you will loose your corner on the market as time goes by and even further down the line you will be making less and less silver.  So yeah, saying no to a merger is very short sighted and very limited on knowledge of economies.  Just check think of this way in a closed economy you can only sell so many people 1 item before the prices have to come down so low it's not worth selling anymore.  So yeah, saying it'll ruin the economy is a lame duck excuse for those wanting to hold onto making as much silver as they can for as long as they can and to heck with anyone else.

 

Vocal Majority want...

 

Please, no one is a vocal majority, no matter what. You might think you're a vocal majority but the fact is, spamming sales in Trade chat does not make you a vocal majority, if that was the case, Ronal would be the vocal majority on Freedom. ( not a jab at ronal, just stating he is in freedom chat more than any other player, except Neutral maybe... )

 

Closing Accounts, or Dumping them

 

Not gonna happen, what will more than likely happen, those characters will now become priests.  Really, get to 100 faith, spam channeling ect to skill that up on TOP of having 80+ skills in mining, wc, digging, smithing ect ect ect.  Who the heck in their right mind would dump that account.  Oh but it cost me money to keep it premium, Hey guess what, with more customers you can make more sales and keep it going on top of paying for your deed.  This to me, is one of the, well i won't say the word, but it is just not really something I see happening. Honestly I see those mothballed accounts now becoming active again for players on Both sides NFI and SFI.

 

 

All in all, would it be nice, I think, for myself, yeah it would be nice to expand the boarders between NFI and SFI. Will it happen, no clue, will there be pro's and con's, of course there will be for everyone on both sides. I feel the majority benefit of opening the boarders will be a good thing in the end run all around, face it, wouldn't it be nice to boast, Yeah I play Wurm, the biggest open world game out there ( not clue if it is or not if things was merged ) but I think you can understand what I mean by that.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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I have read this thread over and over before commenting.

 

Wurm is a wonderful game that encourages many different sorts of people to create what they want. Each of these players has their own attitude to Wurm and indeed to this suggestion. I would suggest that the thread will be of more use if folks attempted to make reasoned comments about what they think whether that be for or against the suggestion of joining the two regions rather than being diverted into blaming one side or another. Doing this would allow the developers / management to see the balance of opinion and make the best decision for Wurm and for the majority of players rather than despairing at the increasing player v player slagging.

 

For me, I have only ever been on SFI and have never had any desire to visit NFI, however, I respect the opinions those who wish the joining to take place- some of their reasons have been stated in the thread. I have bought the occasional item through the forums or the trade channel but to be honest, I am one of those players who much prefers to make their own way using mainly their own skills. I do understand those merchants on either SFI / NFI who want the status quo and once again, they have given very fair reasons for their opinions.

 

To sum up, I really do not care if the isles are joined or if they stay apart, I will continue to play as I do (mainly pottering about doing a whole variety of things rather than skilling specifics) and will enjoy relaxing on Pristine and Xanadu whilst playing this amazing game. These comments may look as though I am simply 'sitting on the fence' to be 'neutral' and indeed after much thought, that is where my opinions take me. I wonder how many other players are in roughly this same position?

 

 

 

 

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4 minutes ago, Spolmit said:

To sum up, I really do not care if the isles are joined or if they stay apart, I will continue to play as I do

 

Right there, that to me, is how I feel as well. For me,  if connected or not, I will farm, mine, do carpentry, the odd job here and there and continue to have fun regardless.

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