Egard

ACID & Sickle - Unbalanced [CHAOS]

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Currently there is a huge unbalance between weapons making only one of them viable - the Sickle. Smack an ACID potion on it and you are even stronger. 

 

Below are some charts from test server of two identical accounts fighting showing the base damage of the weapons. Test was conducting using 90ql gear 70 body stats and 90 skill toons. No Damage Jewelry, No priest bonus, No damage bonus artifacts were used in this testing.

 

Large axe was disregarded for obvious reasons, anyone even using it is as someone told me recently "stuck in 2012 and bad at the game"

 

The base damages speak for themselves a 10k BT Acid salve Sickle does significantly more damage, more constantly, and the swing timer is faster then the other weapons meaning the DPS is much higher. 

 

It would be nice to have other weapons semi viable even if they arent the best for some scenarios. However currently sickle wins by miles in any scenario possible.

 

Med Maul        
  FA [20:14:25] Base Damage: 42975.3 Armour DR: 70.80% Final Damage: 12549.5. Critical: false
    [20:14:35] Base Damage: 35179.2 Armour DR: 70.66% Final Damage: 10320.9. Critical: false
    [20:14:40] Base Damage: 40057.9 Armour DR: 70.78% Final Damage: 11706.1. Critical: false
    [20:14:45] Base Damage: 38700.0 Armour DR: 70.82% Final Damage: 11291.4. Critical: false
         
  FB [20:15:14] Base Damage: 39445.0 Armour DR: 70.78% Final Damage: 11526.4. Critical: false
    [20:15:34] Base Damage: 36043.6 Armour DR: 70.70% Final Damage: 10559.9. Critical: false
    [20:16:09] Base Damage: 37907.2 Armour DR: 70.58% Final Damage: 11153.3. Critical: false
    [20:16:19] Base Damage: 36431.5 Armour DR: 70.68% Final Damage: 10680.0. Critical: false
         
         
  10k BT [20:16:39] Base Damage: 58711.2 Armour DR: 70.56% Final Damage: 17286.3. Critical: false
    [20:16:44] Base Damage: 52870.1 Armour DR: 70.53% Final Damage: 15583.4. Critical: false
    [20:17:00] Base Damage: 50727.2 Armour DR: 70.47% Final Damage: 14980.4. Critical: false
    [20:17:25] Base Damage: 49192.3 Armour DR: 70.72% Final Damage: 14401.1. Critical: false
         
  RT [20:17:48] Base Damage: 37995.6 Armour DR: 70.38% Final Damage: 11255.6. Critical: false
    [20:17:59] Base Damage: 36572.7 Armour DR: 70.35% Final Damage: 10842.4. Critical: false
    [20:19:24] Base Damage: 34972.9 Armour DR: 70.21% Final Damage: 10418.7. Critical: false
         
         
  10k BT Acid [20:19:35] Base Damage: 54598.3 Armour DR: 73.62% Final Damage: 14404.5. Critical: false
    [20:19:40] Base Damage: 47475.5 Armour DR: 73.61% Final Damage: 12529.8. Critical: false
    [20:19:45] Base Damage: 47021.1 Armour DR: 73.60% Final Damage: 12413.7. Critical: false
    [20:20:00] Base Damage: 52732.1 Armour DR: 74.07% Final Damage: 13673.6. Critical: false

 

Longsword        
         
  FB [20:07:26] Base Damage: 23311.2 Armour DR: 74.28% Final Damage: 5994.5. Critical: false
    [20:07:34] Base Damage: 27121.2 Armour DR: 77.73% Final Damage: 6040.9. Critical: false
    [20:07:47] Base Damage: 27421.6 Armour DR: 74.28% Final Damage: 7052.3. Critical: false
    [20:07:59] Base Damage: 2726.3 Armour DR: 70.83% Final Damage: 795.3. Critical: false
         
         
  10k BT [20:08:30] Base Damage: 37966.6 Armour DR: 77.71% Final Damage: 8463.2. Critical: false
    [20:08:38] Base Damage: 36302.7 Armour DR: 74.30% Final Damage: 9331.3. Critical: false
    [20:08:51] Base Damage: 40359.9 Armour DR: 74.24% Final Damage: 10398.0. Critical: false
    [20:08:55] Base Damage: 60099.9 Armour DR: 74.23% Final Damage: 15486.6. Critical: true
         
  RT      
    [20:09:11] Base Damage: 27179.6 Armour DR: 74.23% Final Damage: 7005.4. Critical: false
    [20:09:15] Base Damage: 24743.1 Armour DR: 77.76% Final Damage: 5503.4. Critical: false
    [20:09:23] Base Damage: 27526.1 Armour DR: 74.28% Final Damage: 7080.4. Critical: false
    [20:09:27] Base Damage: 27027.9 Armour DR: 74.22% Final Damage: 6967.2. Critical: false
         
  10k BT Acid      
    [20:09:56] Base Damage: 40240.2 Armour DR: 74.22% Final Damage: 10374.9. Critical: false
    [20:10:00] Base Damage: 37814.2 Armour DR: 74.27% Final Damage: 9728.0. Critical: false
    [20:10:05] Base Damage: 39562.8 Armour DR: 74.21% Final Damage: 10202.7. Critical: false
    [20:10:09] Base Damage: 36851.8 Armour DR: 74.21% Final Damage: 9505.4. Critical: false

 

Sickle        
  FA [20:23:30] Base Damage: 29098.3 Armour DR: 74.22% Final Damage: 7502.5. Critical: false
    [20:23:33] Base Damage: 29807.5 Armour DR: 73.47% Final Damage: 7906.7. Critical: false
    [20:23:37] Base Damage: 29872.7 Armour DR: 73.47% Final Damage: 7925.6. Critical: false
    [20:23:40] Base Damage: 26667.3 Armour DR: 73.46% Final Damage: 7076.6. Critical: false
         
  FB [20:22:32] Base Damage: 28578.2 Armour DR: 74.22% Final Damage: 7366.5. Critical: false
    [20:22:35] Base Damage: 28769.9 Armour DR: 73.49% Final Damage: 7626.4. Critical: false
    [20:22:56] Base Damage: 28435.0 Armour DR: 74.11% Final Damage: 7362.0. Critical: false
    [20:23:22] Base Damage: 43141.6 Armour DR: 73.49% Final Damage: 11438.3. Critical: true
         
  FB [20:22:32] Base Damage: 28578.2 Armour DR: 74.22% Final Damage: 7366.5. Critical: false
    [20:22:35] Base Damage: 28769.9 Armour DR: 73.49% Final Damage: 7626.4. Critical: false
    [20:22:56] Base Damage: 28435.0 Armour DR: 74.11% Final Damage: 7362.0. Critical: false
    [20:23:22] Base Damage: 43141.6 Armour DR: 73.49% Final Damage: 11438.3. Critical: true
         
  10k BT [20:21:45] Base Damage: 42774.4 Armour DR: 74.06% Final Damage: 11097.4. Critical: false
    [20:21:55] Base Damage: 41264.7 Armour DR: 74.05% Final Damage: 10708.2. Critical: false
    [20:22:08] Base Damage: 38821.5 Armour DR: 73.52% Final Damage: 10280.6. Critical: false
    [20:22:11] Base Damage: 39366.6 Armour DR: 73.51% Final Damage: 10427.6. Critical: false
         
  RT [20:21:16] Base Damage: 31533.8 Armour DR: 73.55% Final Damage: 8342.0. Critical: false
    [20:21:23] Base Damage: 30433.2 Armour DR: 73.54% Final Damage: 8054.1. Critical: false
    [20:21:29] Base Damage: 39721.3 Armour DR: 73.53% Final Damage: 10514.3. Critical: true
    [20:21:32] Base Damage: 27681.9 Armour DR: 73.53% Final Damage: 7328.7. Critical: false
         
  10k BT Acid [20:20:37] Base Damage: 41009.2 Armour DR: 73.59% Final Damage: 10829.9. Critical: false
    [20:20:44] Base Damage: 40074.7 Armour DR: 73.58% Final Damage: 10586.0. Critical: false
    [20:20:47] Base Damage: 41523.3 Armour DR: 73.58% Final Damage: 10971.5. Critical: false"
    [20:20:44] Base Damage: 40074.7 Armour DR: 73.58% Final Damage: 10586.0. Critical: false

 

 

 

I also recorded a video of smacking the toon just to show how strong it is.

 

 

Below is the armour chart since the above table was tested vs scale :

 

23cb927e076f5dd216ea978ab2016ec3.png

 


For this, strong/weak is considered to the average of that armour, for example all of plates evaluated percentages average to 81.7%, if it's 15% or more away from median it's considered weak/strong, <79% for weak and >84.5% for strong for plate for example. Average falls anywhere between these two values.
 
Crush strong against Plate/Scale, Weak against Drake/Studded/Leather. 2 strong 3 weak 1 average
Pierce strong against Leather/Chain/Drake, Weak against Plate/Scale, 3 strong 2 weak 1 average
Slash strong against Studded/Drake, Weak against Leather/Chain/Scale, 2 strong 3 weak 1 average
Burn (no way of doing weapon burn damage as flame salve is not enabled and FA doesn't check for armour dr a second time) Strong against Leather/Studded/Plate/Drake, Weak against Chain/Scale, 4 strong 2 weak
Cold salve strong against Chain\Scale, Weak against Leather\Studded\Drake, 2 strong 3 weak 1 average
Acid salve strong against Leather\Chain\Scale, not weak against anything, 3 Strong 3 average
 
Cloth is ignored as it's irrelevant for pvp, plates realistically only in the calculation as people use plate helms regardless of armour set, web or hurting in plate puts you at <3km/h so it's barely relevant. Bite is also ignored as players cannot bite.
 
Unless your weapon is being used in niche scenarios (such as slashing vs studded) an acid imbue will beat out any weapon type due to it not having any weaknesses. It also heavily favours path of power as a champion choice, as having power toons in fights will force the enemy to either use unsalved weapons (with sickles being op, if your enemy is forced to use unsalved sickles, it's essensialy the difference between leather and drake for everyone in the kingdom) or carry extra weapons to deal with them (and from my experience as PoP even non-champ, most people don't do this) which ends up just making regearing after fights even more costly due to extra MM weapon requirements. 
 
Even if you're using something that slash is weak against, the raw damage the sickle does due to being equal in dps with a huge axe/staff as a 1h ends up still being stronger than other weapons due to raw damage, and higher swing speed weapons are a massive dps loss from slightly hidden mechanics, such as parry difficulty being based off time since the last one, aggressive damage bonus going off more reliably on fast swinging weapons, stamina usage from swinging is based on weapon weight whereas blocking isn't so slow/heavy weapon users will run out of stamina in fights faster, weapon swings getting interrupted by stuns/bashes/taunts/walking out of range, and all forms of healing being much less effective against lots of small hits. Even the artifact weapons aren't worth using over any normal weapons due to how bad the swing timer effects dps.
 

 

 

Edited by Egard
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-1 for nerfs. Live with the diversity.

Edit: If any change, then please PvP only.

Edited by Ekcin
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15 minutes ago, Ekcin said:

-1 for nerfs. Live with the diversity.

Edit: If any change, then please PvP only.

suggestion is for pvp - chaos hence the "[CHAOS]" to add diversity. There currently isnt any.

Edited by Egard
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+1, but as always, be careful what you wish for

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Recal this being discussed and proven five or six years ago... Aye be nice for it to be addressed, but not holding my breath.

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I for one am shocked to suddenly learn today that sickles and acid potions are OP. 

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3 hours ago, Karrde said:

Recal this being discussed and proven five or six years ago... Aye be nice for it to be addressed, but not holding my breath.

 

I get that you are not very optimistic but just make an effort and come forward with some ideeas for changes that could benefit the pvp scene because at the end of the day Wurm is lead and developed by different people that were five or six  years ago.

 

If we gonna keep treating them like they gonna do nothing then hey why bother to work on pvp right? 

 

So lets just try to communicate to them what we would like to see changed.

 

2 hours ago, Nadroj said:

I for one am shocked to suddenly learn today that sickles and acid potions are OP. 

 

Where was the problem tho?

 

Rolf lost interest in pvp?

 

Rolf handed over wurm development to ppl that focused on pve more since thats where the playerbase was stable?

 

Too many ppl were pvp for money and not for the sake of pvp so they could not care less about the mechanics? 

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+1 Go back to the basics and do it right, quit Rolfing it up.

Edited by Nomadikhan

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updated with some better explanation at the bottom regarding dr / glance. 

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On 2/11/2022 at 1:46 AM, Nadroj said:

I for one am shocked to suddenly learn today that sickles and acid potions are OP. 

 

 

I know right?

 

Granted in the time before... well before the years ago when acid potions got a use, I recal them selling dirt cheap. Socked away quite a few of them back then.

 

Sure the later change in features and thus player value only encouraged this packrat behavior. 🤨

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+1. 

Very well written thread. 

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