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Vorticella

Why don't you use the test server?

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Personally, I don't mind doing a bit of testing, but I feel it's in vain as a lot of features seem to get implemented regardless of feedback in the original way they were intended and coded by the developers.

 

I just feel like this whole caffeine update is going to be exactly that again, so I feel it's a waste of time to test this change this go around, especially when I have some grinding left to do before said changes are implemented.

Edited by Pandalet
Moderation edit (cleanup)
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8 hours ago, Archaed said:

I DoNt GeT PaId To TeSt tHe GaMe

 

Playtest realms are a common part of mmo's, and are used to do more than just test for bugs, they're for players to get the feel of mechanics and experience them and ask questions. 

 

Don't want to do it? Fine. Claim it's some slave labour? Lol.

 

Edit: Actually nevermind, not like any of it matters anyway.

That snide remark probably wasn't aimed at me, but I am one of those people that think work is work and leisure is leisure and that we shouldn't be expected to work for free (on a game we already pay for).

Edited by Aeris
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5 hours ago, Aeris said:

Edit: Actually nevermind, not like any of it matters anyway.

That snide remark probably wasn't aimed at me, but I am one of those people that think work is work and leisure is leisure and that we shouldn't be expected to work for free (on a game we already pay for).

QzL7UCz.png

 

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I obviously have done bad things, or I wouldn't have edited the comment. I like you too, please don't make me go to the test server 😭

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16 hours ago, Ekcin said:

Btw., other ideas as rewards than just a sleep powder code (bit boring but well scalable) would be marks points, or skins.

 

I've been saying this for years and here it is proving itself again. 

"why buy the cow, when the milk is free"

Staff should take note.

 

As well, my "test server" story.

A few years ago, I found a bug in game, where you could ride a horse down a 41 - 300 dirt slope.  Reported it and was asked to go on Test and duplicate the bug.  I said NO.  The bug is right there in game, come and see. I don't want to waste my time on Test attempting to duplicate something I know nothing about. Dev agreed and showed up to the spot after some 3rd party go between crap.  IMO, that should have been the first thing a Dev would do. Asking me to go to Test server was a joke.  Felt like a way to 'blow off'' the problem/me. 

After finishing showing the Dev. the bug, I asked if there was any reward for discovering this bug. Was told, NO. That this was a known bug from 10 years ago, that appears to have come back, so nothing.  Yet funny thing is, I've had 3 players tell me they got a reward, all for reporting that old, "trader free stuff" bug. The same bug that existed from day one of my game time. But back then we were warned with yellow text in the chat for weeks, not to abuse that bug or be banned.  Go figure eh.

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On 1/26/2022 at 7:33 AM, Holar said:

We’re already playing on it 

 

This is def how I feel

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Testing would be far more successful if done as events rather than "it's just there now." Set a date, time, and duration for the test. Load it up on the test server and have GM's around to spawn in the required items or test different configurations. Wurm's strongest attribute is it's community, and the best way to leverage that is to get people together in the same place with a common goal.

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This has been tried in the past and didnt really work either from memory but people usually complain more that things werent tested in general, not that they didnt have the chance to do it themselves.

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I feel as though it definitely comes down to a lack on incentive to do so and for those who have tried, the difficulty to sometimes access the things you need to actually fully test something. 

There are definitely ways for the Test server to be better leveraged as a tool. However, whether it's possible to do so with a primarily volunteer staff is probably the real hurdle here.

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Why don't I used test server? For me I don't go to test for two reasons mostly.

1) It's hard to use test server. I did test the change regarding UI and combat. I couldn't spawn monsters to fight. And there almost no mobs to fight. 

2) For the most part I don't agree with the choices Wurm devs make. It's not fun for me to test in this situation. And especially for caffeine, it's a nerf. No way am I helping wurm nerf!

 

 

On 1/26/2022 at 2:04 AM, Vorticella said:

There are also lots of questions in the forum thread about how things work that could be answered by just trying it on the test server.

I disagree with this development philosophy. The developers should tell us how things work and then we can test if they in fact do that. It really dumb to not explain function and then expect us to test if that function is working correctly.

 

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8 hours ago, joedobo said:

. The developers should tell us how things work and then we can test if they in fact do that. It really dumb to not explain function and then expect us to test if that function is working correctly.

 

Learning a lot from OR's posts the past couple of years and other senior players, I am quite baffled about how many occult and hidden systems there are in Wurm and none of them are actually documented on the wurmpedia. Wish info would be consolidated and updated. And if indeed the devs do fear any potential exploits, then it means some pieces of the code need to be fixed / updated/ removed. I didn't even know shield bashing was so broken or that typing in a PM chat could actually consume a rare window. 

 

Example : https://www.wurmpedia.com/index.php/Rarity_system#Introduction 

 

Quoting from the link Note: Rare functionality is still not completely understood and is an exciting aspect of the game. Most information listed is only an observation of one or more players rather than confirmed by developers.

 

It's just one of the things that tend to be added on the pile of hidden information from the players which makes me feel like like I am indeed playing on a test server whether it's Epic or Freedom. Feels like there's a small % of players that have hidden knowledge extracted from the Wurm code and the rest of us are bumbling in the dark trying to figure how things already work. 

 

From this mental perspective, you can imagine that people aren't willing to use their prem time to be game testers, when they already feel a bit like beta testers. Could be fixed with an update to wurmpedia and rewards from using the test server. Doubt many people want to use their free time for gaming to volunteer for unpaid game testing, in a game where they already pay a subscription. 

Edited by elentari

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On 1/27/2022 at 1:10 AM, elentari said:

Seem to boil down to incentives I guess here. That could easily be fixed with giving players in game rewards for time spent testing stuff? Plenty on non-game breaking things you could rewards people with : premium time, sleep powders, etc. 

 

I know a way to give incentive to player testing: devs listening to feedback from said testing.

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At work we do some basic testing of our own code but nothing is pushed out to live environment without users signing off on the change and testing they did.

This means that if we implement something users don't want, it will never go live, that's their incentive. They have a say in what functionality is implemented and how it behaves. From GUI to background functionality to data flows.

 

In gaming industry however (Not only Wurm), it doesn't work like that. By doing testing players are asked to report bugs or other unintended results. This creates a few issues:

 

1. Users don't really know what is the expected result. Other than this last change which was actually documented by Keenan, it's more of "pop in and see if you can find any bugs", without knowing what is meant to happen by design and what is a bug.

2. Users often are tempted not to report bugs which give them an advantage, in hope they can use them when the changes make it to live.

3. Users don't feel their testing result has any bearing on the new or updated functionality. It is what it is, see if you can find something wrong with it but keep your feedback to yourself. Only when it makes to live and there is an uproar in the forums about it, it might be considered to be changed.

4. Some of the testing requires a lot of effort, Wurm being a full time job as is, breeding or brewing for weeks on test at the same time does not spark joy.

 

So here we are, between a rock and a hard place. 

Devs can't fully test their own code. If they could think of every possible scenario, they would account for it in code.

Users don't want to do the testing or don't want to report all of the issues for a number of reasons.

 

Incentives for players to do testing?

Would having a civilized discussion with devs about tweaks, balancing and just simply bad ideas be enough?

Knowing that if i feed back that it would be more user friendly to have option X swapped with option Y in the menu, it will be done and testers will be asked to check and comment on it again, make the testing feel worthwhile?

Perhaps.

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Seems to boil down to the same old Wurm issue we've had for the past decade, aka more communication. Things get posted, things get reported, but we don't really have any clue if any is actually taken into consideration. This eventually leads to apathy, players not caring or simply quitting. 

 

Prime example of a Grade AAA triple mega turbo perfect suggestion that should've been implemented YEARS ago : The ability to dispel whatever enchant you want from an item, tool, weapon, etc. There's countless threads on this subject and I don't think I've ever seen a player that didn't want this in game. 

 

I'd sacrifice delaying the caffeine update, VR update (if that thing ever becomes live), AH update, exploration update just so we can get that suggestion to dispel things we want implemented. Some suggestions are so good on the forums it's a crying shame they never got updated by now. 

 

Sorry, I digressed, needed to vent. 

Edited by elentari

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A friend and I tested out the Rifts, before they went live. It was exciting to see new content before everyone else.  Like an Early Access type deal.  In another game I play, I used to hop on the test server all the time, but it isn't a world like Wurm where you feel like every minute not spent on grind or project will leave you further behind the others.

 

I don't think testing the coffee mechanics are that important as they seemed pretty well spelled out in the coffee thread.

 

On my other game and here, changes get rolled out, regardless of what happens with the handful of player testers and the changes will have plenty of issues that were pointed out from testing and pointed out from forum discussions.  Devs get to do what they think is the right thing to do and when they all go live, that is when the real testing starts.  Just the nature of it. 

 

I expect this nutty coffee addition will get several passes and at some point in the future, something else introduced to try balancing hard core gamers with casual players and it will need several passes too.

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