End-game skills - actually needed or not?

[Bloodreina 301]

Hey everyone!

I was chatting with a few in-game friends today about the actual benefits of end-game skills (which is the term we used for 90+ skill levels) and, from what we've figured, there's not much of them really (which is a good thing for us since we're casuals and we'll probably never reach those end-game levels anyway), but I wanted to double check with you.

So, here's my question, except PVP situations or bragging rights on the PVE servers, are there any real/tangible/noticeable benefits of skills/tools/items over 90 level/quality or not? If the answer is yes please elaborate a bit on the subject. Thanks!

[Crack 408]

Over 90+ on freedom? not really, though for some people with higher body stats and mind logic the higher ql item helps keep the action timer down.

I've often made do with mid range construction skills and still built huge cities, it really depends what you want out of wurm.. after all wurm is a sandbox where what you do is completely in your control... dont let numbers control how you play

 

Most of us are just after titles when we go over 90 skill or just simply because we crave the best of the best

Edited January 25, 2022 by Crack

[McGarnicle 1,463]

Depends…90+ skills with 90+would tools and good enchants mean your action timers can get really fast. When you have 2 second action timers, building, digging, bulk mats making etc just goes that much faster. With higher skills, you can construct larger and taller buildings and longer bridges. Of course, you can gather higher ql mats and use them to imp your tools to higher so to get your action timers down and success chance up. If you find that there is a benefit to moving your skills from 30 to 60, you will find there is benefit to going from 60 to 90, and even more when you get into the high 90s. If these benefits don’t interest you then 30skill is good enough for most of things

Edited January 25, 2022 by McGarnicle

[Bloodreina 301]

5 minutes ago, McGarnicle said:

Depends…90+ skills with 90+would tools and good enchants mean your action timers can get really fast. When you have 2 second action timers, building, digging, bulk mats making etc just goes that much faster. With higher skills, you can construct larger and taller buildings and longer bridges. Of course, you can gather higher ql mats and use them to imp your tools to higher so to get your action timers down and success chance up. If you find that there is a benefit to moving your skills from 30 to 60, you will find there is benefit to going from 60 to 90, and even more when you get into the high 90s. If these benefits don’t interest you then 30skill is good enough for most of things

 

The comparison was between low 90s and high 90s... so about how much faster do you think actions are between let's say 91 skill and 91 ql tools vs 99 skill and 99 ql tools.

Also the building limits are a very valid point ... I now saw there's five extra levels in height you add over 90 skill and a few extra tiles on the floor print...

Other benefits?

[Lethyria 161]

It really depends on your goals, if you are happy using 70ql tools (which I'd agree are pretty good) and spending a little more time doing tasks, not many skills are useful that high. Weapon smithing even has a curved ql so a 70ql weapon will be 91% 84%(see pantha's comment) as effective as a 100ql weapon which is more than enough for pve. Higher skills make things a lot quicker and more efficient and two areas that come to mind where very  high skills might be desirable are channeling and rune creating and attaching, although these are really drifting into the area of min maxing. Creating runes is difficult and especially for moonmetal where the material is costly, so reducing the failure chance with high skills and soul depth is pretty solid. As for channeling you could try and get metallic liquid for every rare or special item you cast but that would get time consuming or expensive. I've personally pushed my channeling from 90-98 and I'll keep going to 99 as it almost halves the average amount of time to achieve a 90+ or 100+ cast compared to 90 skill.

 

At the end of the day it always comes to what you want to do, and the great thing  about a sandbox is you can and should do that. I'd probably be regarded as relatively hardcore by some people, especially those into building or doing everything, and by people who don't use alts but compared to many skill grinders I'd be far behind. I enjoy getting my pointless numbers up and I've enjoyed doing channeling and running a shop for a while, so I focus on doing one thing efficiently, but when I'm done I step back and look at numbers not a grand castle or great canal.

 

I've seen giant buildings and thought "wow that must be soo much work" to then meet the owner who said "90 ws must have taken soo much work" doing what you enjoy is more achievable for you.

Edited January 26, 2022 by Lethyria
clarification and correction

[McGarnicle 1,463]

Sorry, I did misinterpret the OP.  I think it will depend on the skill. With mining, for example, I know you can get around 2.0 second timers (possibly faster) at the top end skill where as with my 91 ish skill im getting about 3.5 second timers. In the long run, that difference is pretty significant. 

 

 

[Muse 2,219]

If you can get the best quality tools and materials you can (more easily) produce the best quality end product.  A couple of examples where it really matters - I have found, food lovers and dye makers really notice the difference between 90ql and 99ql crops, herbs, spices and dye materials, and the best insist on the best - so as you might expect, this is reflected in the bulk prices, and in turn, the prices of the finished end products.  To get these high qualities of bulk materials, good quality tools such as scythes and butchering knives, can go a long way to help - improving speed of turnaround, quality of some materials and the higher the tool QL, the less tool damage and therefore less time between tool imps, saving time for the farmer etc.  The whole business of creating, maintaining and improving the quality of these tools (so that they can continue to produce the highest QL materials) in turn has an important influence on the economy.

[Valdor 1,426]

For LW, anything you can get over 90 in that skill helps with imping toolbelts to 90ql. Without that, even with high ql leather, it's a pain in the... you know what.

Edited January 25, 2022 by Valdor

[elentari 2,660]

For tools, having 90 - 91 ql tools means you fail less when imping with them. I always strive for a 100 ql whetstone and 100 ql pelt, and I can actually feel the difference in chance to fail when imping. 

 

As for other stuff, well 90 ql horse shoes and saddle give a speed bonus. Not to mention things like having a 90 ql boat also gives a speed bonus. Generally you'd like items at least at 85 ql before you enchant  them to avoid shattering. One might say due to the way casting works in game, "end game" ql is mostly a necessity to avoid blowing up valuable items, such as a rare sword. 

[Pantha 309]

3 hours ago, Lethyria said:

Weapon smithing even has a curved ql so a 70ql weapon will be 91% as effective as a 100ql weapon which is more than enough for pve.

Sorry bud but I don't believe this is entirely correct. Although weapon damage equation has the epic curve component it is a little more linear than just straight epic curve and damage doesn't drop off as much past 70QL. 

At 70 QL its more like 84% of damage 100QL weapon would have. >< My reference is page 8 of Combat System Explained: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1DcmhFgG98O6H2tteBtDehhRcn9cdWAD0lQvIdFA69iU/edit#heading=h.z3aghus9g5wq

[Emoo 4,357]

I think it's fair to say that for most skills the difference between 90 and 99 is minimal and what difference there is would be hardly worth the time investment compared to the return unless yo have a specific goal or outcome desired. Such as digging (increase your max slope), carpentry (max height and size for plans) etc. 

The only time where it probably is worth the effort to really exceed 90 is with crafting skills if you plan on selling 90ql gear on the market. Imping to 90ql with only 90 skill can be quite arduous and getting to 93-95 skill helps this quite a lot in my own observations. 
 

[Coach 196]

Depends on ur play style.

If u like to be a merchant, specialized a end-game skill 90+ give u a great advantage to attract customers. 

If ur playtime is limited and want to do different thing, i recommend 70x4 skills(assume 2 months) instead of 99x1+0x3 skills(assume 2 months), assume they reach within the same amount of time. Generally, there is not much difference between 70 and 90 for most skills, e.g digger. However, the difference between 70x3 and 0x3 is big, because u can't really do much at 0 skill. 

If u come to imping, as Valdor and elentari mentioned, i experienced the same. A 99+ql tools increase the chance of success imping on high ql item. And QL of tool affect sweet spot imping too. 

If come to skill like unlock something, Mediation 90 deal a powerful damage spell. Prospecting 90 know exact remaining hits on vein. AH: cared for plus 1 additional for every 10 skill in Animal husbandry. Mind logic: for every 10 mind logic more, you can queue one additional action. Higher carpentry: taller and bigger house unlock 99 carp for 16 floors, 88 carp for 11 floors. Paving unlock higher building floor permission in multi-story housing too. They depends on how much u want to unlock. 

If its fighting, 0-70 is easy, u pretty much stop level up after 70. 90 needs a lot of time and 90 fighting doesn't do much compare to 70?

And other something must have missed. Oh 100 titles.

Edited January 26, 2022 by Coach

[Karrde 339]

Huge demand in both pve and pvp for Max ql weapons, armor, and enchants. Weapon smithing is easily in the top five hardest skills to grind, and it's in the most demand.

 

Course all resources are player-crafted and gathered, so everything interacts to varying degrees, especially as you push for ever higher quality.

 

Edit: In many ways the game is far more punishing at lower levels, especially for new players in the game's economy.

Edited January 26, 2022 by Karrde

[DaletheGood 1,073]

Yeah, I'm not a crafter and I don't grind, unless you consider terraforming a grind, which I do not. I do however pay to have my tools imped into the mid 90's because like McGarnicle and others point out, the action timers drop dramatically when your tools are 90 or higher, plus the damage taken seems to be reduced. So, if you are one of those who is selling imping services or making tools, it's almost impossible to sell your services and tools/weapons if your skills aren't above 90.

[Wilczan 2,048]

Some are useful on high level, like Masonry, so you can plan longer bridges.

 

Some are badly balanced, like Paving, couse you need for example 99 paving just to be able to build stone floor on 16th level of the building, 98 for 15th, 97 for 14th etc, generally disaster.

[Lethyria 161]

10 hours ago, Pantha said:

Sorry bud but I don't believe this is entirely correct. Although weapon damage equation has the epic curve component it is a little more linear than just straight epic curve and damage doesn't drop off as much past 70QL. 

At 70 QL its more like 84% of damage 100QL weapon would have. >< My reference is page 8 of Combat System Explained: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1DcmhFgG98O6H2tteBtDehhRcn9cdWAD0lQvIdFA69iU/edit#heading=h.z3aghus9g5wq

Ah yeah my bad I'd misremembered, I'll  correct my post although I still feel 84% is probably enough for most pve.

[Pantha 309]

14 hours ago, Lethyria said:

Ah yeah my bad I'd misremembered, I'll  correct my post although I still feel 84% is probably enough for most pve.

Yep, you are not wrong there.