Posted January 25, 2022 Hello! We’ve pushed the caffeine changes to the test servers and would like to see some feedback with regards to the changes. To get to an area we have set up to assist you in testing please examine the bright green sign at the starter deed on the Oracle test server. This will take you to the area and should you want to return to the starter deed there is another sign you can examine to return you there. We’ve gone forward with introducing an effect to limit caffeine use. It was important for us to decouple caffeine from fatigue but still limit its effectiveness over prolonged use. We feel the current balance will allow caffeine to be used periodically enough to still benefit infrequent players. We will observe the results of these changes for additional balancing and tweaking in the future. The update for pushing these changes live is scheduled for February 1st. The changes are as follows: Increased volume of teapot and coffee pot. Old tea recipes can now be created inside teapots Peppermint tea Spearmint tea Camellia flower tea Herb tea Coffee beans can now be combined to allow easier bulk roasting Campfires can now be made indoors Caffeine drinks will no longer provide extra water Caffeine drinks can be used when the water bar is full Doubled the potency of every caffeine drink Doubled the hold duration of every caffeine drink Disabled caffeine extra skill gain on meditation, lockpicking, and shield bashing We have received various opinions on the current state of meditation and have been discussing it Tea leaves will only oxidize outside of containers Tea leaves oxidization timer will reset when moved into containers Cocoa beans have been changed to Roasted cocoa beans to distinguish them from cacao beans. Added new type of tea, Rose Flower tea Harvesting a Camellia bush will now produce a camellia flower. The camellia flower can be used for the herbal Camellia Flower tea. Add optional ingredients to new beverages Tea Spice, sugar, milk, and lemon Hot Chocolate/Cocoa Cream, milk, hazelnut oil, marshmallows, humbugs Coffee Spice, hazelnut oil, cream, sugar, chocolate, cocoa Black coffee renamed to Coffee due to optional ingredients Mechanics: Instead of caffeine consuming fatigue, using caffeine with sleep bonus will now develop restlessness, up to a maximum of 5 hours. Upon reaching 5 hours, caffeine will stop providing its extra skill gain and sleep bonus drain. By sleeping in a bed, restlessness is paid back at the same rate as sleep bonus is gained Mechanics: Caffeine skill gain changed to provide 2x the benefit of sleep bonus at 100% caffeine Mechanics: Caffeine sleep bonus decrease speed now unaffected by ccfp fats Bug: Mint hot chocolate and hot chocolate will no longer give caffeine Bug: Fix weights of various caffeine items Coffee pot 0.10kg -> 1.50kg Tea pot 0.10kg -> 1.50kg Coffee cherries 0.05kg -> 0.15kg Cacao pod 0.05kg -> 0.30kg Cacao beans 0.10kg -> 0.20kg Coffee Ibrik 0.10kg -> 0.20kg Bug: Fix descriptions of various caffeine items Camellia Flower Old: "A bright, long-blooming flower pink camellia flower." New: "A bright, long-blooming pink camellia flower." Cocoa Bean Old: "The dried and fully fermented fatty seeds of Theobroma cacao. How did it get here?" New: "Dried and roasted beans from a theobroma cacao tree." Cacao Bean Old: "A rugby ball-shaped fruit of from a theobroma cacao tree." New: "A rugby ball-shaped fruit from a theobroma cacao tree." Bug: Very small quantities of caffeine consumed will once again provide caffeine Bug: Difficulty fix for picking produce from tea, coffee, and cocoa planters Bug: Coffee Ibriks are now heavy enough to smelt Bug: Remove ability to pick seeds from yellow and white tea leaves 10 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 25, 2022 9 minutes ago, Keenan said: Mechanics: Caffeine sleep bonus decrease speed now unaffected by ccfp fats Wait a second.. Isn't that the bug OR reported a while back (= how it currently works)? I figured fats should affect how much sleep bonus drains, even the bonus drain caused by fatigue. Hmm.. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 25, 2022 20 minutes ago, Keenan said: Coffee beans can now be combined to allow easier bulk roasting Omg YES! +1 21 minutes ago, Keenan said: Campfires can now be made indoors Why not just use ovens? Seems simpler. We already got ovens made and they are easier to fuel. 21 minutes ago, Keenan said: Disabled caffeine extra skill gain on meditation, lockpicking, and shield bashing Are you working on fixing shield bashing then? There is a thread on the forums about how broken shield bashing is, oblivionreaver posted about it, and past 50 skill, it's nearly impossible to actually get any gains. 23 minutes ago, Keenan said: Mechanics: Caffeine skill gain changed to provide 2x the benefit of sleep bonus at 100% caffeine Wasn't this already a thing? At 100 caffeine power, you got 2x SB boost to skillgain. Aka 200% skillgain vs the regular 100% when using SB. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 25, 2022 3 minutes ago, elentari said: Omg YES! +1 I'll take it! 3 minutes ago, elentari said: Why not just use ovens? Seems simpler. We already got ovens made and they are easier to fuel. I will have to check on this one as I missed it in my proof reading. I believe it's to honor the customary way of making the beverage, but it could also be something we can tweak. 3 minutes ago, elentari said: Are you working on fixing shield bashing then? There is a thread on the forums about how broken shield bashing is, oblivionreaver posted about it, and past 50 skill, it's nearly impossible to actually get any gains. Shield bashing is on our list yes, along with meditation. We have no formal plans to announce as of yet, but it's in discussion. 3 minutes ago, elentari said: Wasn't this already a thing? At 100 caffeine power, you got 2x SB boost to skillgain. Aka 200% skillgain vs the regular 100% when using SB. Checking on this. I also missed this in my proof reading of the changes given to me by the developer. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 25, 2022 34 minutes ago, Keenan said: By sleeping in a bed, restlessness is paid back at the same rate as sleep bonus is gained So not sleeping in a bed will mean it never goes down? 3 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 25, 2022 1 minute ago, Keenan said: Shield bashing is on our list yes, along with meditation. We have no formal plans to announce as of yet, but it's in discussion. Meditation I can somewhat understand but lockpicking is already kinda crap to grind, and shield bashing is so broken it's weird to include it in this as it's not even grinded the same way meditation and lockpicking are. If you're grinding bashing there's no doubt you're grinding shield skills too so your SB would be on anyway. Seems like a weird pick to throw in, and not really needed. 35 minutes ago, Keenan said: Mechanics: Caffeine skill gain changed to provide 2x the benefit of sleep bonus at 100% caffeine Isn't this already the case? 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 25, 2022 (edited) 29 minutes ago, Keenan said: I believe it's to honor the customary way of making the beverage now that campfires can be made inside i don't mind much, but out of curiousity, is there a single person in Wurm that wants or care about honoring that so called customary way of making it? Also i don't find fair all that talks about meditation and shield bashing and leaving out lockpicking for something that needs not to be improved, grinding is pain as much as meditation is, and it really needs some more uses on pve... Edited January 25, 2022 by kochinac 3 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 25, 2022 28 minutes ago, Archaed said: So not sleeping in a bed will mean it never goes down? Im hoping for some way, if just very slow, that we can lower restlessness.Even fishing actions would be a decent solution! 😛 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 25, 2022 I don't understand teh restlessness.. IMO that's worse than the fatigue drain. At least with fatigue we could do some actions that didn't drain fatigue to allow it to regenerate. With this restlessness change the only way to renew it is to not be in game... that's definitely going to help with population numbers... 🙄 7 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 25, 2022 1 hour ago, Keenan said: Mechanics: Instead of caffeine consuming fatigue, using caffeine with sleep bonus will now develop restlessness, up to a maximum of 5 hours. Upon reaching 5 hours, caffeine will stop providing its extra skill gain and sleep bonus drain. By sleeping in a bed, restlessness is paid back at the same rate as sleep bonus is gained Will this also be effected by using an epic portal, similar to sleep bonus? 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 25, 2022 13 minutes ago, ChampagneDragon said: I don't understand teh restlessness.. IMO that's worse than the fatigue drain. At least with fatigue we could do some actions that didn't drain fatigue to allow it to regenerate. With this restlessness change the only way to renew it is to not be in game... that's definitely going to help with population numbers... 🙄 No fatigue is a lot more detrimental as it restricts you from doing actions. Restlessness only prevents you from grinding with caffeine bonus. I hear a lot of people do other stuff than grinding! Perhaps it's hearsay 🤷♂️ Since caffeine has been expressed to particulary more casual players (that I assume means might only play an hour or two a day on average), this make a lot more sense. It seems quite obvious the target is to allow 1H of caff grinding on average. When exceeding that, Id much rather be able to work on other stuff if I wanted. 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 25, 2022 1 hour ago, Keenan said: Upon reaching 5 hours, caffeine will stop providing its extra skill gain and sleep bonus drain. By sleeping in a bed, restlessness is paid back at the same rate as sleep bonus is gained Sounds like an awful system. Just make it stop giving the extra skillgain 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 25, 2022 5 minutes ago, fencejumper said: Will this also be effected by using an epic portal, similar to sleep bonus? How will it be affected by things like bedrolls that only give you 75% of the SB over time? 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 25, 2022 I would’ve just added restlessness and kept caffeine the way it is. Currently working…. Instead of keeping it simple it’s made more complicated. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 25, 2022 2 minutes ago, Sn00 said: Sounds like an awful system. Just make it stop giving the extra skillgain That's exactly how I read it! Or are you referring to the means of getting rid of restlessness? And hey Snoo, long time no see! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 25, 2022 (edited) please don’t remove meditation or lockpicking for players with much less play time it makes those skills even harder to acquire. Why take that away. Just adjust. Edited January 25, 2022 by Beastwolf 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 25, 2022 (edited) 4 hours ago, Keenan said: Mechanics: Instead of caffeine consuming fatigue, using caffeine with sleep bonus will now develop restlessness, up to a maximum of 5 hours. Upon reaching 5 hours, caffeine will stop providing its extra skill gain and sleep bonus drain. By sleeping in a bed, restlessness is paid back at the same rate as sleep bonus is gained So for a player to gain 1 hour sleep bonus via sleeping they must be logged off for 24 hours. Which means to regen the 5 hours I have to be logged off 5 days. Way to kill a useful feature, basically renders it useless because although my playtime is limited I still get to login for an hour or two every 24 hours. Now I have to stay logged off for 2 days to make those two hours I play the most effective I can. 4 hours ago, Keenan said: Disabled caffeine extra skill gain on meditation, lockpicking, and shield bashing We have received various opinions on the current state of meditation and have been discussing it Can this change be postponed until you have an actual plan in place for Meditation, LP, and Shield bashing. Honestly Caffeine the way it currently is was a feature I wasnt around for when it released but once learning about it, its hands down one of best features / updates we had in a while. Does it need some fine tunning maybe but does it need to be reworked this hard no it does not at all. Edited January 25, 2022 by Egard 6 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 25, 2022 Just now, Egard said: So for a player to gain 1 hour sleep bonus via sleeping they must be logged off for 24 hours. Which means to regen the 5 hours I have to be logged off 5 days. Way to kill a useful feature, basically renders it useless because although my playtime is limited I still get to login for an hour or two every 24 hours. Now I have to stay logged off for 2 days to make those two hours I play the most effective I can. Can this change be postponed until you have an actual plan in place for Meditation, LP, and Shield bashing. Honestly Caffeine the way it currently is was a feature I wasnt around for when it released but once learning about it, it hands down of best features / updates we had in a while. Does it need some fine tunning maybe but does it need to be reworked this hard no it does not at all. I don’t see a reason why it should be removed at all, especially for players with a lot less play time it helps with hard to get skills such as MED or LP adjust? Maybe. Remove ? No. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 25, 2022 15 minutes ago, Gooner said: I hear a lot of people do other stuff than grinding! So true! 😁 I like this - may actually use it as a quote (if you don't mind) 👍 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 25, 2022 1 minute ago, Yaga said: So true! 😁 I like this - may actually use it as a quote (if you don't mind) 👍 It does sound a bit snarkier than I mean it, but please go ahead Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 25, 2022 (edited) From my perspective, while also listening to others using caffeine, there are two big issues with caffeine as it is now. Using caffeine (at 100%) require either water intake management or a beating from another character (which is not an option for weak alts for example). Also, missing a timer ruins the grinding session. Overusing caffeine makes the character useless for most purposes, not only grinding and skill gain. These changes takes care of that so cheers! Edited January 25, 2022 by Gooner 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 25, 2022 How does one go about accessing the test servers through steam, again? The old method I used for the combat update doesn't seem to work anymore. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 25, 2022 So for the volume change to beans. Will that affect all the beans I have now? Will they all grow in size in my fsb or will the number I have change. Like how cocoa beans half in number when added to fsb? Are Ibrik volume going up as well so I can brew more than 2kg at a time? With the beans going up in volume we can make more coffee per bean. Sounds like we need half as much coffee to reach max power now. So we make more and need less correct? Debating if I want to keep being every day or horde beans til they go up in size if they are. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 25, 2022 1 hour ago, ChampagneDragon said: I don't understand teh restlessness.. IMO that's worse than the fatigue drain. At least with fatigue we could do some actions that didn't drain fatigue to allow it to regenerate. With this restlessness change the only way to renew it is to not be in game... that's definitely going to help with population numbers... 🙄 I don't think it is the best way to control it either. It will make coffee grinding only useful for those who are really-really-really casual players. It is rendering it absolutely useless for the playstyles where you grind a while then go out to do other activities like hunting, building, terraforming, bullying others on GL-Freedom or whatever else. Please, remove the requirement of sleeping and being logged off for the restlessness to refill, use the behaviour of fatigue instead. I would also vote for allowing ovens to make kahvesi, yes roleplay is nice, but introduce firefighters too if we build campfires on our wooden floors indoors... The bulk roasting is a great change - a nice move towards choosing if you want to work a lot for nice skillgains or want to be productive. I would also prefer to leave meditiation/lockpicking/bashing as is until the changes are introduced. These are annoying enough even by "abusing" caffeine - and honestly only meditation is really a concern there. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 25, 2022 34 minutes ago, Synjor said: How does one go about accessing the test servers through steam, again? The old method I used for the combat update doesn't seem to work anymore. I have no answer to that but the workaround is to download the game for the wurm page and log into the test server from there - as it is in no way connected to your regular accounts it is not an issue (other than that you will have two installations of wurm that way) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
