Wurmhole

Racial diversity completely lacking.... will it ever change?

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+1 to more representation in skintone and hairstyles.

 

I am so sorry to anyone who got far enough to read my comment.

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1 hour ago, Samuraifishploo said:

+1 to more representation in skintone and hairstyles.

 

I am so sorry to anyone who got far enough to read my comment.

easy, I just clicked to read last reply

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6 hours ago, nicedreams said:

They can hook everyone up with a non-tradable, one time use hand mirror to change their appearance again with some skin tones.  Or let us dye our skin.  lol

 

 

 

I demand a barber/hairdresser NPC 

 

I like the talking NPCs... they make my deed feel less lonely

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Folks,

 

I get that this is an emotive topic.  Having strong opinions is fine, and you don't have to agree with everyone else.  However, if you wish to actually convert others to your point of view, attacking them isn't going to achieve that - please keep the discussion civil.  If you're just here to sling mud or stir the pot - don't.

 

Pandalet (LFM)

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Im always up for more cosmetic options, regardless of gameplay impact. Let alone adding fantasy races.

 

Though there is the argument of Wurm being the more... realistic of the fantasy mmos. Sure we have dragons and etc.

 

However, our armor provides the best protection... no bikini/lingerie armor.

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Okay, let me say this again, but in a bigger font. 

 

REPRESENTATION IS NOT COSMETIC

 

I shouldn't have to point this out so many goddamn times! 

 

This is not "oh I want to look fancy or like an elf". This is about people of colour feeling represented in the game they love, not about purple ###### dragons. 

 

Every time someone equates representation as "cosmetic additions" the average iq of Wurm players drops. 

 

If you do not feel that adding in skin tones that don't match your skin colour isn't important, I suggest you take a long hard look at yourself, and your values. 

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I think we should consider the game for what it is: a game.
This is not a government, we don't need to be represented, because to be represented shouldn't be, in my opinion, the purpose of any game.
Eventually to add more skin tones, hair styles, hair colors and so on, should be a funny opportunity to customize our toons, just because it is funny, not because any of us should feel the need/urge to be represented in a game.

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..... 

 

For April fools I'd like to suggest making all skin tones dark, and then tell anyone who complaints it doesn't matter its just a game. 

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How about we let people voice their opinions without being attacked, shamed and bullied every step of the way just because they don't agree with your pov of the subject matter.

 

As a reminder, no one has said that this issue is not important, in fact we have said it is important. Its simply some don't agree with it as high of importance as you...Its a simple disagreement on what some people feel is a priority. This idea that because we don't agree with you 100% on every talking point of this issue, that we think there are other things in the core of the game that need fixing first, or that we are not allowed to have an opinion that differs from yours is simply crazy.

 

Again, present your thoughts and ideas, lets talk about it, but stop the attempts to push and bully people into agreeing with you. You don't like someone else's opinion, lay out your case as to why, present your ideas and opinions, let others do the same as well.

 

Happy Wurming

 

 

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5 minutes ago, gnomegates said:

that we think there are other things in the core of the game that need fixing first

the art devs don't fix bugs, they make art. working on art has 0 impact on fixing bugs and vice versa. unless you're saying the art devs should pick up coding or learn some QA skills or something i guess lol

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8 minutes ago, Oblivionnreaver said:

the art devs don't fix bugs, they make art. working on art has 0 impact on fixing bugs and vice versa. unless you're saying the art devs should pick up coding or learn some QA skills or something i guess lol

 

And who implements the art into the game? The devs that code, the ones that have to take the time to re code things to make the art function within the game...unless you're saying the art devs should pick up coding or learn some QA skills or something I guess lol

 

In all fairness I don't know coding or how the coding of the game works, maybe there are very few to no resources needed to fix issues like this and to add cosmetics suggested over the years. I don't know the answer, and no one else has offered any experience or thoughts on this subject matter. If that is a point that someone can make that shows that it does not matter, then make that case, but again no one has yet. That is what I'm asking for, people to put forth ideas and solutions to the problem, not just make smart remarks that do not further the conversation.

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there's 0 coding to be done for it, the code for allowing different skin colours in the game is already in. it even has support for fancier stuff like skin colours/hair colours based on kingdoms. It's literally just dropping graphics files into the folders already set up for it.

91d27cb646386176e90a9d0ed2830b6f.png quick 1 minute job in WU to add a new funky skin color, you'd need to redo the models as they're obviously designed around being white but that's still not a coding thing

Edited by Oblivionnreaver
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Art devs don't need to know coding or QA skills to be art devs? Yes. 


Making arts into this game require Coding devs to code? Yes. 


Will the changes require both art devs and cod devs communicate with each other? Yes, not only the the devs but many other people too.


Does communication and making decisions take time? Yes. 


Will they have time to focus other projects rather than this? I don't know. 


Which priority come first? That's ur opinion. 

 

Does these stop people bugging each other? No.


Because people have their own definitions of appearance, representation, customization and cosmetic. They have some similarity, but need to distinguish and classify while discussing.

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While I'd be ecstatic to see more cosmetic options and higher quality character models, I think the game and its mechanics should take development priority. Just my two cents.

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Keeping it civil with this topic isn't easy and it isn't my desire to see folks get riled up.  Just wanted to put a reminder to the company and community that this is a very old issue that still remains unaddressed. Representation for all is becoming the norm and expected for just about everything.

 

I haven't read the entire thread for the recent patch that introduced all the new brick colors, but it sure seemed like diversity in brick color was quite popular and didn't receive a lot of blow back for wasting devs time.  How about when all those amazing new horse colors were added?  Another incredibly popular addition to the game.  Upgrading avatar face, body, skin color and hair options will be welcomed by most, once it is done.

 

But if you only play the game for the skill grind and building castles, with no concern for artistic improvements in the game, I can certainly respect your opinion that mechanics and bug fixes take priority. It really is ok to have that opinion.  It's really a question for devs and the game company:  Is it time to address this aspect of the game?  Is it worth it to pursue now, rather than 10 years from now, or simply never?  This thread just helps the community make suggestions for what could make the game more enjoyable to escape to when we need a break from RL.

 

I really appreciate that so many have added their thoughts to the thread.

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Huge thanks to everyone that pushes for representation(beyond cosmetic reasoning).
I know what it's like to think mechanics-only(actually I am still am mechanics-over-art biased, but this here is not art-related) to try to be "apolitical" or "neutral", and it took plenty of free time to absorb the reality of the world, especially right now.

To everyone trying to push away from this, first of all the whole "don't focus on this, focus on other things" is a response that should probably be held back just for the sake of being somewhat useless, otherwise every opposing "priority-ordering opinion" could just flood each-other's feature suggestions infinitely. Secondly, most importantly, some of you are being suspicious in your motivations, others(most, I hope) are surely trying to be neutral and logical-oriented, and reasonable.
I appreciate this attempt, as if for progress, but it really isn't as neutral as you think.

Taking a stance like this especially at a time in which there are a myraid of information sources for one to realize finally and clearly why there's a problem for these "so-called unbiased-defaults" for characters in video games - well, in this climate it's less accidental ignorance and more purposeful. The design decision for these defaults quite likely wasn't made in direct hostility at the time of implementation. I'd even go so far to say that any hidden bias or blissful ignorance in those days deserves some leeway - it simply was a time in which knowledge of these problems wasn't easy to find, and taking a stance was heavily not-the-norm sadly.
That isn't the case anymore. The devs I'm not judging too much here, even now, but everyone here who is trying to put such effort against this decision is really telling. If you think you're being neutral, check your emotions, and educate yourself in contradicting opinions(even in the minefield of YouTube, stick to 2021-2022 though, embrace long videos).

In the meantime, I wish some of you the most un-fun PvP invasions, which I will gladly be a part of. Fairly and by the rules, but certainly an event worth happening. Change isn't always peaceful.
 

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Wurm online is NOT a depiction of any area or time age of planet earth, therefore speaking of "representation" is pretty much nonsense and EXPECTING it for the sake of "ethical reasons" is completely out of place, because it's a fantasy-based world and you don't get to expect the presence of anything in an artistic creation of someone else, you just get to like or dislike it. Making this political is silly and should be avoided for obvious reasons.

That said, i don't see anything wrong with adding new skintones, and i wonder why it hasn't been done a long time ago, considering how simple that must be, i mean, even forges have different colors now, i can undestand if someone feels trolled, especially if it's as easy as OR says.

So, yeah
+1



 

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It's reasonable to ask players to suspend their disbelief: to accept dragons and trolls, enchanted items and imps carrying mail.

There's a difference between asking people to accept something fantastic — something impossible — and asking them to accept something racist.

 

And that's all it is now. There's no leeway for excuses any more. Protesting against the "development cost" of adding a couple of RGB values to a table... starts to sound like a bit of a thin disguise.

 

For some players this is a matter of cosmetics and they really don't care. For others, it's a question of identity, of whether or not they're accepted or excluded from the community of players. If you're in the former group, please sit down and listen to those who've had to sit at the back of the bus.

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24 minutes ago, Sheffie said:

 

of whether or not they're accepted or excluded from the community of players.

If they get accepted, or not, by a community is up to the community and has nothing to do with old and clunky Character creation tool lacking skin tones along with tons of other options.
What about text-based games then? Avatars in wurm are and have always been horrible, they fulfill the basic need of having an animation-placeholder and don't really represent anyone.
I feel like calling this inadequate tool "racism" is going way out of line, i've always felt against any real act of racism i witnessed and often fought against it, this cannot have become what passes as racism today.
As someone who fiddled with game developing in the past i feel for it... it's a matter of principle, you can't just call racism for something that is just missing in the game, because there's always going to be some peculiar or rare trait / skin tone missing, 

Being this a "suggestion section" i'm all-up for supporting this suggestion, but let's not blow this out of the proportion or the dimension it has, because it's not really helping anyone and only helps creating conflict between players.

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On behalf of the development team: representation is important, and the current player models are not where we'd like them to be.  This has been pointed out several times, and we are working on fixing it.  Making the available character models properly reflect a much broader set of cultural and racial norms will take time to do properly, so the plan is to do this in several stages; it's likely that basic skin tones will be the first pass, but the intention is to carry on refining this as we go forward.  I don't have a concrete plan or timelines as yet, but it is being actively worked on.

 

In short, we hear you, and we're going to fix this.

 

Pandalet (Developer)

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