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Coach

Not when. But how. SFI+NFI merging.

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How to merge gracefully. Assuming there will be a update about all populated SFI and NFI servers people can interact with each other. 


SFI have about 10 years of skilling and making items. Its very hard to catch up the items in SFI. The more times u spend the more rares u have. This is pretty much INFINITE. 
However, the max skill is 100, the more time u got, the higher u have but eventually u stuck at 100. This is called LIMITED. Also there is not much difference when u have 95 or 99 skill. for example, plate armour with 99ql 69.59% of total reduction, 95ql 69.45%, 90ql 69%, 85ql 68.25%, 20ql 31.3%. 


The conclusion is u can catch up the limited but not the infinite. Of course with the caffeine, NFI can catch up SFI quicker. 

 

Okay, the gap of skill between NFI SFI servers is fixed because people get high skills in both servers. Next its about items. 


So, I suggest u can only bring tools (enchantments still active after go to NFI) to NFI from SFI but it cant be traded, improved, enchanted, runed in NFI. U can use and repair in NFI. Tools doesn't mean horse shoes, cordage ropes things like that, tools means https://www.wurmpedia.com/index.php/Category:Tools. With skills and tools from SFI, u can start doing things on NFI, terraforming, building, imping, etc. That means u don't need to skill up and make good tools all from nothing. Also its easier to make a tool (tradable in NFI) with a good tool (untradable in NFI, made in SFI). 


Why not make everything tradable because it will affect the environment in NFI strongly with the SFI history. Try to minimize the affection. The idea has some similarity in defiance, but instead of only transfers skills, it transfers skills and items. 


Of course vice versa, u can only bring tools (enchantments still active after go to SFI) to SFI from NFI but it cant be traded, improved, enchanted, runed in SFI......


The goal of this idea is to create an opportunity to interact with more people. Not isolate in their cluster. To enrich your experience. How about that?


If it isn't the caffeine, i won't suggest this. You help the casual u help the NFI, they both have commons, lower skills and less times. 
 

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We got GL freedom for interaction between both clusters, we got PM's to interact between both clusters, so I don't see any reason to merge both clusters; other as those from the SFI spam the NFI players with high ql, high cast,  low priced items.

And NFI isn't waiting for that.

 

So a big no from me.

 

Thorin :)

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I know, when the NFI players has higher channeling, they don't even need SFI people to spam. They can spam themselves, i am talking about when NFI people's skill have catched up with the SFI. We have GL and PM, but we can do more. Do things together not just talking. Like terraforming, building, even party, events etc.

Edited by Coach

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Honestly Id like to be able to visit them, even if I couldn't interact with anything. Would love to walk around and see what they've built

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I'm a broken record.  Release Jackal server with 1:1 skill transfers with nothing able to transfer between servers.  Then allow both NFI and SFI to play on Jackal together.  If Jackal is too much work from issues, then remove the part where you are taking control of land from Rift mobs and make it a hunting server with all the Jackal mobs, woods, items, etc.

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People enjoy playing on freedom server now. Opening a jackal means opening a new opportunity to choose, then they need to choose whether play on jackal or freedom server, separation again. this split the people inside SFI, separate the people inside NFI. 

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1 hour ago, Coach said:

People enjoy playing on freedom server now. Opening a jackal means opening a new opportunity to choose, then they need to choose whether play on jackal or freedom server, separation again. this split the people inside SFI, separate the people inside NFI. 

 

Just figured a neutral place that both NFI and SFI can work together without messing with the trade market back on their servers.  Jackal would reset after a few months so no permanent deeds or anything.  Can port back and forth when you want so not like people would be stuck.

 

I know Jackal isn't coming back.  Just adding ideas for the "How?" part of the title.

Edited by nicedreams

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Keenan — 12/22/2021

NFI <-> SFI isn't ready to happen. I play on both and have been watching the economies. They're still very different in a number of ways, and I'd rather not influence that on a merge at this time.

 

i doubt they'd spend the time coding your suggestion because by the time they're done with it the servers will be equal lol

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Actually i think coach is thinking of things in the future, years probably. Right now, no it wont happen, but its very much a thing that should be in suggestions for the devs to look at for themselves.

 

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I'll repeat myself: I don't EVER want a merge. Let them stay separate forever. If someone wants to make an alt and go look around the other cluster, go do that, but I don't want a merger, and no argument for it will ever sway me from my stance. Keep those NFI/Steam newbs over there. NIMBY!

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The real issue is...... Defiance.

Imagine the rush of high end PVP accounts from the old servers.

 

 

 

 

Well... who knows, we would need a single PVP environment and honestly the way Defiance is set up with the NFI servers is the better layout compared to Chaos and SFI ....

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@ nicedreams. People in this game tend to like thing that's permanent, not an reset. More like a collector rather than a stimulation. In conclusion, LAST LONG. Jackal means less SFI, less NFI people because they jump to jackal, it becomes SFI(less)+ NFI(less)+ jackal(some of SFI NFI people). which means separate the people. The idea is to attract people to ur home, where u love it and enjoy it, and then share it, not something unfamiliar and new (can do this on skills/graphics). The only new thing is the people, not the new mechanic(jackal). Same with other idea of jackal, doesn't need to be jackal.

 

@ others. Of course its not now, that's why i emphasized HOW. Its about the future when things are ready, like coding, skills/numbers almost equal, a mind of this is gonna happen. 
I am a mind without coding, so i picture it without obstacles. And of course who will show the game code to players. I say things with limited information(not an AI can learn many things), want to hear from a human side feedback or what?
With the caffeine update, i can think a lots of possibilities. Why not play together, welcome people to ur home. 
Remember the Massively Multiplayer, MMORPG, Online Co-OP is still tagged there. Oh hi i am just a tourist, take a picture then bye? Even just a tourist, don't u want 70 fighting skill with a weapon? I still want my wallet in my bag, not losing a passport or something while enjoy the views and people. I know u can use the dropping tent trick but ya, lets focus back on create the opportunities to interact with more people and deeper connection in game. Of course merging doesn't mean u cant be hermit. U can still choose to interact or not. Put an KOS around ur deed pretty much give a signal to people. And people have their own deed now, the chance of deeding everywhere like the steam launch is much less. I can see some disturbance happens to the hermit if merge, but its mild maybe? They have their own mines and trees everywhere now.

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My idea isn't perfect, but it gave people a start to discuss. My concern is the same @ jaz. But i can see defiance needs some new blood in it. PVP server mostly fun because of more people? Don't want to keep raid the same guy over and over again? people do said PVP servers are dead. But i don't know how the actual people in PVP think.

 

Who wants to play a PVP server that u know u only got a little chance to raid a group with skills and items that's way ahead of u? What i see is that, the SFI people with skills can achieve something in defiance. Of course they need to start over again with their skills. Current NFI defiance got PVP items and lower skills, SFI defiance got higher skills to develop PVP items. Try to be the best to balance and to be fair right?

 

I see merging as an opportunity to reignite the heart in PVP. Ain't u want more people in PVP, then u need to accept they are not newbies. U can't destroy them with only a touch. Challenging is what PVP people want. Or ur just a weak and refuse to be brave. I didn't mean the people are weak but this is a way to challenge them. Let me be brave.

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Let us get real. NFI PvE yesterday at peak: 250 players, SFI same time (around 20:30 UTC) 297 players. I recall 3000 players on NFI PvE at peak.

 

It is not even clear how many of those are of the "my 8 (or more) alts" some migrants from SFI boasting about are among them, spamming rares etc. to serve the high priced market.  

 

I do not think that the proposal meets the needs. There is a crowd of SFI veterans holding NFI market in iron grip as far as they are still able to, who hit 90 WS and channeling during the first three months after steam launch. They are the only ones profiteering from overpriced tools and enchants.

 

If you have a look at SFI markets you can see that quality items still sell at reasonable, in no way ridiculously low rates. Beneath that, living among three tiny islands with a dwindling populace and a short term history is somewhat boring.

 

I would agree though, that the proposal is going into the right direction. There should not be an abrupt and soulless removal of server borders. There may be, for example, a challenging (should be thought how in detail) and dangerous passage for a longer while. This should be announced with big PR hype, maybe mails to all (who did not opt out) former Wurm players, especially since steam launch. Maybe transfer of some materials like scale, hide, blood, rift materials, >100 enchanted items etc. might be restricted for a while ("border customs" appearing and confiscating when on board when according course is plot).

 

This could make things interesting instead of watching dwindling populace while insisting on high ql profits.

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@Jaz : Could you explain what the problem for Defiance would be in case of the possibility of SFI players to sail to NFIpve, and traverse the portal to Defiance as every NFIer today?

 

If I understood correctly, all rules and restriction on Defiance PvP gameplay would apply to them equally. Admittedly, there may be some FS 99.99xxx among them. But does that really make so much of a difference? I reckon that there are quite some FS 99 characters on NFI already. From what I read in forums already some FS 75+ would make you somewhat competitive.

 

And I think we agree that quite a number of "old PvPers" are already playing on Defiance. From my observations, Chaos participation is 20 to under 30 on average while Defiance is 30 to under 40. Not an extreme difference in my opinion. But maybe I fail to see something.

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I'm content with just SFI as it is but I know an older player who went to NFI and they can't wait for a merge so they can come back and reclaim their old toons and what's left of their old stuff on SFI. Plus they are not big on being isolated from half the Wurm populus.

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open the 2 sides ,make one great big awesome world to travel . make a normal standard price list for everything wurm bosses 

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This is a sandbox game which u need to give people variety of things to choose. Making a standard will lose the core of this game unless it can create more variety. 
Remember the idea of the SFI and NFI items are not tradable, which try to minimize the economy being choppy or bumpy caused by the merge. Then people can choose to play what economy they want. 

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On 12/24/2021 at 8:48 PM, nicedreams said:

I'm a broken record.  Release Jackal server with 1:1 skill transfers with nothing able to transfer between servers.  Then allow both NFI and SFI to play on Jackal together.  If Jackal is too much work from issues, then remove the part where you are taking control of land from Rift mobs and make it a hunting server with all the Jackal mobs, woods, items, etc.

We're both broken records :) I'd like to see Jackal again too

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I can't wait for an NFI - SFI merger!  

 

Let trading take place between clusters because I am sick of being gouged at every turn for average items.  Auction prices for most items are getting much more balanced between the two clusters than was the case several months ago.  Let SFI flood the NFI market and let more players have access to decent equipment at reasonable prices.  

 

I would also love to be able to visit the SFI islands and explore all that has been built, to be able to participate in more rifts and slayings!

 

However before anything new is done, server lag needs to be fixed.  Many players complain at rifts about lag as well as at slayings.  When a slaying is made public and hundreds of players show up, the game is almost unplayable due to lag.  There is no point trying to get more players interacting in one spot, until there can be a smoother gaming experience.     

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Id be interested to see in how many characters pay for premium with silver on a cluster basis. That may provide some insight as to the motivation and prevalence of individuals such as myself.

 

My argument against a merge has always been focused on a F2P functional time to premium through ingame earnings. Its still far easier on NFI.

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I'd say that by the time the merge happens that it should just become one Freedom cluster, that's it. So just do the same thing as the last time two freedom clusters were merged into what is now known as SFI. Thus no complex stuff like treating it as two separate clusters with weird (and scam sensitive) restrictions. By the time a merge happens it's better to just go all the way and get it over with instantly. Yes it might cause a bit of uncertainty for the economies, etc, but that will all adjust itself without issue, so it isn't much of a problem. This went perfectly fine the last time around.

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It seems like the biggest obstacle to merging servers (aside from the price gougers who will of course be upset at losing their profits, but who in my opinion have no moral basis to complain) is what on earth to do with PvP.

 

I confess I don't understand all the differences between the various servers, but it seems to me that what PvP really needs is for all the players who want to take part in PvP gameplay, to be able to do so in one world where it's feasible to sail between servers, raid each other, hide in remote locations, or whatever. If the rule sets can't be merged between the different PvP servers, then I'd advocate considering more radical solutions, such as using one-way portals to allow all PvP characters to emigrate to a new server, larger than before, that's been carefully designed for PvP.

Edited by Sheffie
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