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Eyesgood

NFI Done Right - Wishful thinking, I know

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Opinion incoming, and a suggestion or two which I know will never happen...

 

I think NFI was a great idea, but I think it wasn't bold enough to really cause long-term growth.  Opening up new worlds requiring new characters is great because the real meat of the Wurm experience is starting from nothing.  However, NFI did what every other new map release has done -- it divided the Wurm player base, yet again.  Personally, I think something more bold needs to happen to let Wurm Online experience an explosive re-birth.  In my humble opinion, I think the entire Wurm universe needs to be catastrophically and completely destroyed to make way for a new Wurm Online universe.  

 

Here is what I suggest, though I know this will never happen in a million years:

 

- Create two 16km maps (Independence sized):  1 Freedom ruleset map, 1 Chaos ruleset map.  Create a third reset-focused 4km Jackal ruleset map.  Three maps - that's it - no more, no less.  Allow sailing and portals between Freedom and Chaos.  Bring back Jackal exactly as it was.  All maps accessible from Steam client or native client.

- Allow existing players to keep nothing but their character name and coins.  And by nothing, I mean not even skills.  Yep, the Holy Grail of Wurm.  Reset everything.  No items, no gear, no skills, nothing.... but to be fair to those who purchased coins, the coin they can carry with them in their banks can go.  Deeds could be disbanded to recover upkeep coins before the release.

- Announce a date for the destruction of the current Wurm Online universe.

- Announce a date for the rebirth of Wurm Online - The New Era, perhaps within a few hours or days.

- Everyone starts over from scratch, except they keep their character names and coins.

- New worlds with new characters to build.  In short, a whole new skill-race for Wurm players, and a whole new opportunity for the next generation of Wurmians.

 

Ok, you can start screaming at me now.  Or, if you think this actually might just work, feel free to throw in your 2c worth.

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my home, stuff ,  armour , weapons ,mm ,fantastic mountain piece i won , think its easyer to just open the portal  nfi sfi , and see what happens , at least we all still have our stuff 

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I think players may be more open to phasing out the old worlds and migrating to new if they have the option to keep their skills and "stuff". Maybe open the new cluster and give folks a month or two to settle a new deed (maybe even free deeds to existing nfi/sfi deed owners with upkeep deferred) and transfer their stuff. This doesn't give the "new wurm smell" of a complete fresh start but does consolidate the players. That said, I have a feeling any plan like this may result in more players leaving then staying.

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Only thing I see happening is the same players that have been moving from place to place would move or create yet another alt in the new place and lose more players than you will gain. This all equals either zero actual "growth" in the game or a loss.

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Why would we want to leave the old world and go to the new? Those maps are not as nice as the old ones.
Let alone a new world for all of us, on three servers, and one of them a Jackal server?

The devs are clear about Jackal not beeing a great option.

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I see i see i see, u are saying they didnt delete the SFI before opening NFI. Because of that, SFI and NFI need to be deleted if they are considering to open a new server again.

So all the previous forum posts need to be deleted before opening a new post, because all people can focus on the ONLY ONE NEW POST and start from nothing.

If u really like the idea of nothing, u will keep saying or doing nothing. You only want nothing because you want something. Yes, something is something now, want to start from nothing in the next second? too short oh no, millisecond? Yes, the faster the quicker the better. 
I like the idea of keep pressing the restart button in a computer, i can never download a game.🤭 Also, time management is very important in this game. How long until u restart?

Hello mods, are u considering to delete this post? So everyone can start from nothing again. Hello? Hello? Okay hi? NOTHING response. 

Edited by Coach
Add one more sentence "Hello mods, are u considering to delete this post? So everyone can start from nothing again. Hello? Hello? Okay hi? NOTHING response." 

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Uh, no. Beyond the fact that I have a bunch of stuff I've collected over my 4 years in Wurm, I have several places that I'm quite fond of where I've taken a scarred, ugly landscape and changed it into something lovely to look at and be at. I'm also very fond of my new place in the middle of nowhere on Xanadu, where I don't see anyone in local for days at a time, and then it's only neighbors from the area going thru or friends come to do some paid work for me. It's been literally months since I've seen a stranger in local, and I average 8+ hrs every day playing. 

 

I for one, hate when my local is clogged with players, and some of the more rude and inconsiderate among them come by and plop down a deed right next to mine. That's what prompted my move from the populous Summerholt area to this much more remote area. In addition, I am in year 2 of a 5+ year project to turn this area into something truly spectacular and I want to keep working on it.

 

If you crave the newbie experience so much, leave all your gear on the ground, disband your deed and go make a new toon. Nothing is stopping you from that. And there's plenty of untouched land on Xanadu if that's what you're after. Just don't come over to my place.  And no I don't want some phase out to new servers, or opening the NFI/SFI border. Keep those NFI folk away from here.

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7 hours ago, Eyesgood said:

..

- Allow existing players to keep nothing but their character name and coins..

- Everyone starts over from scratch, except they keep their character names and coins.

- New worlds with new characters to build.  In short, a whole new skill-race for Wurm players, and a whole new opportunity for the next generation of Wurmians.

 

Ok, you can start screaming at me now.  Or, if you think this actually might just work, feel free to throw in your 2c worth.

Yawning, not screaming. I read such suggestions in the one or the other way about 5 times while I am playing (4 years now), and recognized similar ones having been made in the years before I started.

Details varying containing one or more of the above like

  • Delete some/all servers
  • Delete some/all skills
  • Delete some/all items
  • Delete all coins.

Shying away from the last is inconsequential, Players like me who would certainly stop wurming would look for those willing to restart giving them the coins, with or without compensation which could - face it - only be RMT black market transaction (we have IRC if you think about wiretapping). Or leave all coins at a character for later black market operations. So you would even disrupt the bank and money system. That is more stupid than the other proposals

 

Mind that after such a destruction all trust in promises that Wurm would be and stay a persistant world would be gone as well. If they did it once why not again when the restart got bust or fizzled out after a few years?

Edited by Ekcin

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You must have been sleeping during the Steam launch if you think that one server of that size would be sufficient for PvE. Though on the other hand, if you reset everything then perhaps it will be due to how many people would end up quitting for good (myself included).

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Some things cannot be reversed. People that have invested 2+ years in skilling, building, forging relationships, developing their own plot of lands, gathering materials & knowledge won't desire to restart from scratch,  at least 99% of the players. I include myself in this category. 

 

One of the issues with Steam, as I see it anyway, is that the idea was to start fresh but at the same time, there was no significant effort put into place to make new players understand they can ALSO have a fresh start on SFI or Epic. Fact of the matter is prices on SFI are still lower than NFI, which to some might be an attractive idea. 

 

NFI is NFI. Isolated from SFI.  It's not a healthy relationship.

 

As history has shown us, isolating one cluster from another will inevitably lead to one dying and eventually be migrated to the other. See how the vast majority of Epic players migrated to SFI when the transfer was allowed. 

 

But resetting servers is not the answer. I think the answer lies in keeping the servers connected but making them truly unique with their own identity. 


I've proposed this in the past but the idea of giving certain features to every server can help people feel like they're different and not just randomized maps with different names. 

 

Example : 1. Deliverance could have faster crop yield, higher troll density, better rewards from arch and faster skillgain with archery. 

2. Release could have faster pottery skillgains, higher spider density, better fishing gains, lower timers when it comes to imping carpentry items. 

3. Indy could have faster mining timers, higher aquatic mob density, faster horse / running speeds, etc. 

 

Giving pros and cons to each server can help making them feel more alive. It would also encourage people to travel more to skill certain things, which could lead to players forging new relationships and new communities.

 

If we could perhaps add some more stuff in the mix, such as collective events for each server, it would breathe in even more life for them. For example the troll invasion of Pristine : Kill 10 000 trolls in a week. Trolls spawn en masse around pristine and players there can help slay them in droves. Add more aggresiveness to trolls, maybe even give them crude bows to fire at players and you can have a collective event where players have to support each other to stop the invasion. 

 

These are just random thoughts but the aim is to make each server more unique, more alive. 

 

Resetting things won't fix any of Wurm's current problems. In time they will crop up again.  It's happened every time a new server has been released. 

Edited by elentari
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My main concern with Wurm, and the impetus for my post, is the disconnectedness of the population.  The reason there are now 16 servers is because the strategy of opening new servers in isolation has not worked to increase the overall population of the game.  The opposite has happened.  The economy is pretty much now dead because the game does not facilitate more convenient buying and selling mechanics even as more and more land has been opened up.  At the minimum, merchants should be linked at the map level to make it easier to locate goods.  At best, there ought to be an in-game market where you can search for goods and services across all maps.  NFI opened up (again, another isolation scenario) and now there are just more islands with the same problems.  I get it, let new players have a chance to gain skills to be competitive.  Well, this concept of fairness to new players is moot if the game is not growing.  My cry of "Wurmians Without Borders" is a genuine hope something will be done to bring players back into a collective unit.  I have seen some pretty amazing actions that have been taken over the years that have netted great results.  Shutting down the old servers and opening up Independence is one example.  That day is still the most memorable to me in my almost 13 years in this game.  Rolf shut down servers and made everyone move to new lands and it was a huge success!  We saw growth into the many thousands of players after that.  All I am saying is that Wurm Online needs to do something about the segmented population and the pains of commerce as a result.  Wurm may not be dead, but it sure as heck feels dead.  It needs more than coffee to stimulate the players.  It needs to remove borders, open up better trade mechanics and offer more incentives to game play.

 

my 2c.

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15 hours ago, Eyesgood said:

  I get it, let new players have a chance to gain skills to be competitive.  Well, this concept of fairness to new players is moot if the game is not growing. 

We have about 30 posts by now in the forums archive of people (including myself) crying for an Auction House to be implemented in game for that specific purpose. Every time it's been shut down by greedy voices or people complaining that it "ruins immersion".  Or that Wurm "isn't that kind of game". You mean a game with an efficient mechanic made to save time and encourage competitive offers? Cause the trade chat I see is pretty dead for a year now. I doubt anyone has the time to randomly wander about the map in the hope to find merchants. Lot of immersion there. 

 

I completely agree with the sentiment of Wurmians without borders. Isolating clusters or part of the playerbase from each other doesn't lead to healthy results. Honestly other than a well thought out marketing  campaign to repopulate the servers, can't think of anything. 

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I consider the "Wurmians without borders" phrase somewhat pathetic. And I do not want to be brought "back into a collective unit", especially when it means destroying all I have done and achieved in the Wurm we live in.

 

I cannot telll about what Rolf did 13 years ago, I heard that he messed up a lot, and a relatively good outcome was more out of luck and the relative novelty of the game. There is not the least reason to believe that destruction of Wurm would be of any use.

 

"The economy" is not dead, it is working quite well in the constraints of a game like Wurm where most of trade is not needed. Where it is needed, it works. And whether an auction house or not, I do not care. I understand those who hate it as well as those who badly want it, but I am sure it will not work any better than actual trade and auction forums, trade channel, and mail/wagoner system recemtly do.

 

That said, I am all for removing the artificial cluster divide.

Edited by Ekcin
typo

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Sometimes in Wurm we can press the 'destruct' button to get rid of an unwanted object, building or even deed, however, I feel that if we were to have all of our work disappear into the cloud there would not be enough people left to populate your three servers. 

 

The reasons for this are several:

a) Not all people are interested in monetary rewards and are simply interested in creating a pleasant place to create a virtual life in.  They become 'attached' to their little place in Wurm. This may sound strange to some but others will understand what I mean.

b) People spend many hours simply enjoying pottering around their deed and taking whatever skill increase comes along. To have this 'destroyed' would end that enjoyment and in many cases lead to people leaving the game.

c) To lose skills would mean that many people who have spent hundreds (maybe more) of pounds (or whatever currency) gaining skills and setting up fantastic businesses would lose all that and I suspect that they would also simply leave Wurm as well.

 

I do accept that some new players could be attracted to play Wurm with the target of becoming the new high skilled smith, brewer, potter or whatever if everyone started from 'Year 1' again. I suspect though that we would lose more players than new so this possible advantage has been largely blunted (in my opinion)

 

What could we do to make Wurm more enjoyable to play than it already is?

a) I trust the developers to keep updates coming- always have and always will. They will not please everyone but that is never going to be possible and more of us need to accept that. There are some incredible players in Wurm who have knowledge and ideas that I can never hope to match. I would love players like Oblivionreaver et al (who comes across as a 'font of knowledge' and experience) to be asked for their opinions of what could possibly be done by one or more of the staff team. 

b) I was not in favour of joining the two sets of isles together but how feel that possibly the time is approaching when that could be considered. Doing that may offer Wurm the fillip that I feel that it so deserves. Some traders in the NFI may have concerns about losing a little of the premium prices that seem to occur there but the prices are continuing to average out.

 

I would guess that some players are so knowledgeable about Wurm and have so much disposable time and / or money that within a few months (or less) of your proposed new lands the same people would again be 'in charge' of the markets again. What would you do then? Press the reset button again? 

 

Finally, as someone who this year has experienced the closure of a server that I so enjoyed playing on, I would suggest that destruction of the existing lands would not bring more people into Wurm and would likely lead to more people leaving.  I would support many things if it were to improve my enjoyment of Wurm but in this case, I cannot support your proposal.

 

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You didn't play 13 years ago when rolf was around so lets be clear, that option, any of those options is not acceptable. You wanna see wurm die, do that by all means but I wont be one of the players on the new map. I like where I am and what I have. I've played for years and theres plenty of players who came after me who have far surpassed me so don't think for a moment that new players don't have a competitive advantage.

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I can see OP already accepted that there is very little chance all servers are gonna reset. 
I guess what OP want is how this game can provide a system or update that can give people opportunities to interact with each other more often. 
The recently update like caffeine and new stone types maybe make OP feel people grind and decorate more at their own place. which means less interaction.
Some game events and impalong was giving the opportunity to interact but are u looking for the interaction that whenever u want, wherever u want? maybe something unpredictable too? 
Also, i can see this game keep trying to give people the opportunities to interact with new people. Like open epic, jackal, different SFI servers, open NFI after SFI, these created huge amount of interaction but u need to grab the opportunity. I agree they do fade over time but there are always new to come.
Honestly, i think the next step will be NFI meeting with SFI people. Its just the matter of time. With the caffeine update, i guess they just want the NFI people to catch up with the SFI in a long term goal. (They said they want to help the causal people, but i think its just a distraction, the main reason is to help NFI catch up, the causal and the NFI have commons, they have lower skills and less time in the game) I mean there is not much differences between a 95 skill and a 99 skill. 
Maybe not a merge, but i can see people in this game will have more interaction in some updates because they kept doing it through the history. Maybe SFI items only kept in SFI with u travel to NFI, cant trade, like deathkept system in the game, idk.
<Archaed> Vs several years ago, it's like 4x higher. <Archaed> compared to steam launch, it's about .75x the count. I don't know which years of population u are comparing to and i don't have the data, but the problem for u is the separation, so maybe u should ask what they can do to bring more opportunity for interaction, or keep suggesting. We are playing in our separate computers but we are interacting through the internet. So it isn't where u live, whatever servers u are. Its about create a thing (wurm, game, update, skills, platform, etc) to interact. 

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11 hours ago, Blacklotus said:

You didn't play 13 years ago when rolf was around so lets be clear, that option, any of those options is not acceptable. You wanna see wurm die, do that by all means but I wont be one of the players on the new map. I like where I am and what I have. I've played for years and theres plenty of players who came after me who have far surpassed me so don't think for a moment that new players don't have a competitive advantage.

I didn't say I did play 13 years ago, I said "almost 13 years".  I started playing Wurm in April 2009.  And I most certainly was around when Rolf was involved.  In fact, when I was on JKH, I got a PM from Rolf asking how I liked the changes made to ships at that time.  I don't mind counter-opinions, but don't pretend to know something you do not.  Make your point without personal poking.

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On 12/23/2021 at 7:55 PM, Eyesgood said:

I didn't say I did play 13 years ago, I said "almost 13 years".  I started playing Wurm in April 2009.  And I most certainly was around when Rolf was involved.  In fact, when I was on JKH, I got a PM from Rolf asking how I liked the changes made to ships at that time.  I don't mind counter-opinions, but don't pretend to know something you do not.  Make your point without personal poking.

Then  you should know by experience without having to be told that every time rolf tried to fix the whole game into 'pvp' it lost players, when he tried to 'fix' population and migrated the whole population to a brand new world it ended badly for our playerbase because rolf didn't ever ask what the players wanted he just did and thats why those options you're suggestion don't work. It will end very badly and seeing as you've been around then you ought to already know that. What wurm needs is advertising, idk about you but i've never seen any advertisements for wurm anywhere, have you?

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On 12/21/2021 at 11:55 PM, Eyesgood said:

Opinion incoming, and a suggestion or two which I know will never happen...

 

I think NFI was a great idea, but I think it wasn't bold enough to really cause long-term growth.  Opening up new worlds requiring new characters is great because the real meat of the Wurm experience is starting from nothing.  However, NFI did what every other new map release has done -- it divided the Wurm player base, yet again.  Personally, I think something more bold needs to happen to let Wurm Online experience an explosive re-birth.  In my humble opinion, I think the entire Wurm universe needs to be catastrophically and completely destroyed to make way for a new Wurm Online universe.  

 

Here is what I suggest, though I know this will never happen in a million years:

 

- Create two 16km maps (Independence sized):  1 Freedom ruleset map, 1 Chaos ruleset map.  Create a third reset-focused 4km Jackal ruleset map.  Three maps - that's it - no more, no less.  Allow sailing and portals between Freedom and Chaos.  Bring back Jackal exactly as it was.  All maps accessible from Steam client or native client.

- Allow existing players to keep nothing but their character name and coins.  And by nothing, I mean not even skills.  Yep, the Holy Grail of Wurm.  Reset everything.  No items, no gear, no skills, nothing.... but to be fair to those who purchased coins, the coin they can carry with them in their banks can go.  Deeds could be disbanded to recover upkeep coins before the release.

- Announce a date for the destruction of the current Wurm Online universe.

- Announce a date for the rebirth of Wurm Online - The New Era, perhaps within a few hours or days.

- Everyone starts over from scratch, except they keep their character names and coins.

- New worlds with new characters to build.  In short, a whole new skill-race for Wurm players, and a whole new opportunity for the next generation of Wurmians.

 

Ok, you can start screaming at me now.  Or, if you think this actually might just work, feel free to throw in your 2c worth.

lets do it.. we all quit and play another game or on wu server.. same game, same experience, more content, full restart #woo

 

this needs more than that.. to survive implementation

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you need new cool place.. and some way to promote it... like jackal with it's new mechanics.. somehow make old servers not fun to play on.. and players will be missing on more fun content... then likely want move into new server on their own.. instead of pushing the choice on them.. you're offering a rag.. or new clothing..

 

but why?

 

what does it solve?

 

you want to see people in local???????? really?

I'm just serious... why should there be new world.. and all people have to move there?

You have idea but nor reason for it.. no problem to solve or something to build.. it's a random restart at best, and just that

Edited by Finnn

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-1

One of the things that brings me back is the memories shared with friends in the little gifts or places built together. Named bridges, gnomes, painted statues displayed in special places on my deed, painted carts with wonderful colours, dragon armour made by a friend, a rose from a new server from years ago, a horse named a special name which will always be part of my wurm journey. These things can't be replaced. People stopped playing or passed away, and the world around us shifted. But when I log in all of these fill the world and makes it feel like a place to belong. Wiping it away will not make me, or anyone who grinded to get to 100, 95, 90 or whatever goal they had, feel excited to log in. Actually, I think many won't ever log in again.

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On 12/22/2021 at 6:31 PM, elentari said:

I've proposed this in the past but the idea of giving certain features to every server can help people feel like they're different and not just randomized maps with different names. 

 

Example : 1. Deliverance could have faster crop yield, higher troll density, better rewards from arch and faster skillgain with archery. 

2. Release could have faster pottery skillgains, higher spider density, better fishing gains, lower timers when it comes to imping carpentry items. 

3. Indy could have faster mining timers, higher aquatic mob density, faster horse / running speeds, etc. 

 

Giving pros and cons to each server can help making them feel more alive. It would also encourage people to travel more to skill certain things, which could lead to players forging new relationships and new communities.

If you want to try out something like this, come over to Stormfall on WU.  

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