Keenan

Caffeine Changes

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feedback wouldn't be complete without a bit of offtopic pvp humor

 

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7 minutes ago, Finnn said:

feedback wouldn't be complete without a bit of offtopic pvp humor

 

 

off topic humor? whats funny about it? the less time i feel compelled to grind the more time i can spend doing the things I like, that being pvp. 

 

getting/preparing for pvp is a full time job in and of itself

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8 hours ago, Finnn said:

feedback wouldn't be complete without a bit of offtopic pvp humor

 

Wat | Know Your Meme

 

Yeah, being able to spend less time grinding while not falling behind has made me fall back in love with the game, I must say. 

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3 hours ago, Archaed said:

Wat | Know Your Meme

 

Yeah, being able to spend less time grinding while not falling behind has made me fall back in love with the game, I must say. 

If you were falling behind before, you're still falling behind.. unless you have or can get more sleep powders to compete with somebody who's not able to cover the 2hours sleep bonus to burn the daily 2x sb burnrate.. even with or without that.. somebody with no sleep powder and a lot of free time can still get ahead of you.

 

Unsure what "not falling behind" means.

 

About memes.. no clue either, what I meant is.. pvp ban news and 2 random pvpers commenting about being able to pvp with otherwise no presence in this thread available for a month before that.

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7 hours ago, Finnn said:

what I meant is.. pvp ban news and 2 random pvpers commenting about being able to pvp with otherwise no presence in this thread available for a month before that.

 

There was no ban news just an update to rules that currently arent even in effect... you are reaching hard in some attempt to discredit a view that you dont share... you say there are no casuals to comment and then cry when a couple speak up. You need to learn to sit down.

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We're doing some internal testing of caffeine changes now, and I'm getting the full list of changes together for a new post and thread for test feedback. That should be out tomorrow. It's been a super busy week, and I apologize for not having it out sooner.

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No worries! Keen to see where it goes 

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On 1/20/2022 at 11:27 AM, platinumteef said:

i think this system is great the way it is, is it perfect? no

but as a casual player its great to be able to burn my weekly sleep bonus and then do casual pvp if its available. 

 

Came here to say the same thing.

 

I like this system as it, and would disagree with the intoxication change.

 

There's some quirks with it, but this is by far one of the best systems in-place for casual players who like to get their grind on every couple days.

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4 hours ago, Xallo said:

Came here to say the same thing.

I like this system as it, and would disagree with the intoxication change.

There's some quirks with it, but this is by far one of the best systems in-place for casual players who like to get their grind on every couple days.

I fail to see how the recent system is in any way usable for casual players. It benefits me, as well as other frequent players, as far as one does not mind to let an alt whack you with a pickaxe or similar in spar to make you throw up. Use of the system is then limited only by SB and SP available.

 

For casual players it is hard to fulfill the requirements, e.g. to be always at water 0% to get power 100 caffeine. Not everone has an alt available strong enough to carry out Sleepwalker. Also, when using high power caffeine repeatedly, relatively large stocks of kahvesi (still the most usable drink in my opinion) are necessary, either to be bought, or produced. In the latter cased, the need of daily picking of coffee plants runs counter casual gameplay, also high beverages skill (even though dumbing down of bevs skill made that easier).

 

The intox change mainly hits regular players who have to live with.

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that's old, we don't have latest changes/plans/ for the mechanic, but this thirst/puking/alts and all that drama that lasted a month+ "is" or will be gone... after next caffeine change

 

kahvesi is just sb booster(not most useful beverage, it's useful while you have what it boosts), as long you have sb - it's worth using any time, you're limited by intoxication and sb amount now

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10 minutes ago, Ekcin said:

I fail to see how the recent system is in any way usable for casual players. It benefits me, as well as other frequent players, as far as one does not mind to let an alt whack you with a pickaxe or similar in spar to make you throw up. Use of the system is then limited only by SB and SP available.

 

For casual players it is hard to fulfill the requirements, e.g. to be always at water 0% to get power 100 caffeine. Not everone has an alt available strong enough to carry out Sleepwalker. Also, when using high power caffeine repeatedly, relatively large stocks of kahvesi (still the most usable drink in my opinion) are necessary, either to be bought, or produced. In the latter cased, the need of daily picking of coffee plants runs counter casual gameplay, also high beverages skill (even though dumbing down of bevs skill made that easier).

 

The intox change mainly hits regular players who have to live with.

 

I consider myself a casual player and I'm fine with the system as it is, except for the water bar thing. I haven't had any issues with producing enough kahvesi for my personal use. The only thing I'd want to change about the current system is the water bar thing because it feels weird to be chugging strong coffee all the time and never drink any water at all.

 

You don't have to have your water at 0 to reach 100 power (it just takes a bit of time to reach it), and you don't have to have 100 power all the time in order to use the bonus and benefit from it. I don't do the puking thing so what I've been doing is keeping a container with kahvesi on me and drinking some every time my water drops enough to sip again. I just never drink water. As long as you keep sipping more before the timer runs out it refreshes the timer and increases the power with each sip. So when I log on it takes a bit of time to get to 100, but it's really not that long. I just use the bonus without it being at full power for a while or I do stuff that doesn't need sleep bonus. As a casual player I don't need things to be at 100% maximum efficiency to consider them functional. I'm making much better use of my sleep bonus than I was in the past and I'm able to get more out of my game time. So that's how a casual player is using this system :)

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There are a number of grinds where a low water bar is desirable for stamina management. That is impossible with  caffeine and without puking. Moreover, the recent system is cementing fatigue, an obsolete mechanic which should be abandoned. Capping caffeine usage to 1hr per day for continuity or 5hrs max at a time by intoxication sounds sensible to me. Maybe the parameter has to be reviewed and adjusted after introduction, we shall see.

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What I am not sure about with caffeine "intoxication": Will it be active all time caffeine is on at any power, or only when SB is on (as it is with fatigue consumption now)? The latter would be ok, the further be catastrophic. It would mean drinking high ql coffee twice would cause intoxication threshold per day used up.

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On 1/22/2022 at 2:05 AM, Keenan said:

We're doing some internal testing of caffeine changes now, and I'm getting the full list of changes together for a new post and thread for test feedback. That should be out tomorrow. It's been a super busy week, and I apologize for not having it out sooner.

Any update? Or is there something on discord? 

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After the caffeine rework on 3rd Feb, they changed it to 


sleep bonus+coffee=x2+x1=x3 exp, with sb burning rate >= x2 (because of the caffeine sleep bonus decrease speed now unaffected by CCFP fats)


the idea its similar to 

On 12/17/2021 at 3:02 PM, Coach said:

Suggest to change
sleep bonus+coffee=x2+x2=x4 exp         , with sb burning rate x3(e.g) 

which makes grinding with caffeine less efficient than using sleep bonus without caffeine. Encourage the general grind-focus people to choose sb only to grind. 


With the restlessness system, caffeine mostly work for the people who are willing to grind, sleep a lot, have very limited hours to play in a week and their sb is usually max out at 5 hours causing sb overflow or wasted.


They really focus on helping the casual players with grinding skills which is their goal in this update.

 

The grind-focus people mostly won't use caffeine anymore unless their sb overflow or have almost infinite sleep powers. 

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1 hour ago, Coach said:

With the restlessness system, caffeine mostly work for the people who are willing to grind, sleep a lot, have very limited hours to play in a week and their sb is usually max out at 5 hours causing sb overflow or wasted.
They really focus on helping the casual players with grinding skills which is their goal in this update.

Well summarized. It is perfect for my priests which I lack the time to play regularly so that they are mostly logged off. So they will be the main caffeine consumers on my deed. Also caffeine is nice when a RoS is active, and just a couple of missions snapped in (hell what to do with all the SB?). Also, a few skills remain where gains may be concentrated within a relatively short period of time (e.g. collecting 100+ felled trees and chopping them up, several cooking related activities and so on). When the activity lasts 30 minutes or even less anyway, it does not matter that the SB is burning faster, rather that the skill gain is higher.

 

I consider the complaints bit exaggerated though normal kneejerk reaction when an advantage is removed. In fact we did not lose anything. Rather, the dumbing down of beverages gave all an easy skill gain in that previously hard grind, bit frustrating for those who had taken the pains before, but so what. In addition, it allowed extra skill gain for about 6 weeks, ways more than normal extra skill gain. It is over, so back to normal.

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1 hour ago, Ekcin said:

Also, a few skills remain where gains may be concentrated within a relatively short period of time

Yes, the grind-focus people can still use caffeine for toggle sb system like cooking and beverages,

 

limited resources like priest gem channel grind, natural substances body parts or 100+ felled trees to max out the exp,

 

need to use all the sb with a deadline to gain a new 5 hours sb in an unexpected global spell cast, etc.


The grind-focus people still benefit from the caffeine in some specific skills.

 

Choose the skill and system which benefit from caffeine.

On 12/17/2021 at 11:33 AM, Keenan said:

Strikes a balance so it is a more conscious choice to use

accomplished.

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2 hours ago, Coach said:

need to use all the sb with a deadline to gain a new 5 hours sb in an unexpected global spell cast, etc.

no... as long it burns sb 2x at 100 power, you can burn your old 7 hours sb at most in 3.5hours/then get the global cast of 5h or w/e combination like -5h sb burn in 2.5hours and then grabbing +5h from cast(as I understood from other new thread caffeine ignores ccfp sleep bonus save and you actually lose sb that way), implementing a feature creep.. (ignoring other mechanics and doing it's own new amazing thing)

 

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How do you think the changes should effect the market price of caffeinated beverages? They did a few updates that should decrease the amount of time spent on the steps to make coffee/kahvesi (combining whole beans to roast and grind in bulk will cut my production time way down). Previously many hours and thousands of actions went into producing batches of a couple small barrels of kahvesi. I haven't calculated the new way yet (because it isn't good for skilling and I don't want to sacrifice bev skill ticks quite yet), but I would think it would cut the price down a bit and maybe make it more affordable for their target players. Thoughts?

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11 hours ago, Odinstardew said:

Thoughts?

Great advertisement.🤭

 

Anyway, one of the main factor of reducing the frequency of caffeine usage is the restlessness system. A cliff drop compare to previous fatigue system.

 

Others changes make 100 power easier to reach and maintain, simply low ql caffeine drinks can do the job well.

 

Besides caffeine, high beverage skill can make good target affinity drinks to sell. They usually buy it for grinding. May be caffeine drinks will become a gift or prize for the people who buy the affinity drinks to attract customers. 


Imagine there are one hundred+ of different affinities needed for one person and can use it any time without restlessness, but the person only need one caffeine drinks called kahvesi to grind. A bigger market in affinity drinks.

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On 2/4/2022 at 11:09 PM, Coach said:

Great advertisement.

lol wasn't going for that. Just newish to the market and how to correctly price based on time to produce. Thanks for your response though!

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On 2/4/2022 at 7:57 PM, Odinstardew said:

How do you think the changes should effect the market price of caffeinated beverages? They did a few updates that should decrease the amount of time spent on the steps to make coffee/kahvesi (combining whole beans to roast and grind in bulk will cut my production time way down). Previously many hours and thousands of actions went into producing batches of a couple small barrels of kahvesi. I haven't calculated the new way yet (because it isn't good for skilling and I don't want to sacrifice bev skill ticks quite yet), but I would think it would cut the price down a bit and maybe make it more affordable for their target players. Thoughts?

Believe me, you have no idea how skillgain works if you do that.

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On 2/6/2022 at 4:37 PM, Finnn said:

Believe me, you have no idea how skillgain works if you do that.

not sure what you mean...I am nearly at 100 bev, so making caffeinated beverages for market after that point will be in batches for time saving not skillgain for me. Let me know if I misunderstood. 

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