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Caffeine Feedback

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Ok not cows in Wurm, fortunately. ūüėÄ

 

Edit: Pointing at another aspect: The insane water filling renders the caffeine mechanic unusable for the group it was intended for, more casual players who cannot afford hours long grinds by their time budget. No less they can afford hours long preparations and planning ahead to get their water level down so low that they can enjoy the caffeine buffs. And mostly they have no alt with sufficiently high FS for the special attacks in a spar causing puking.

Edited by Ekcin

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I felt this nerf was a bit too much, could do without having to fill water bar with coffee maybe. I dont mind using more of it if I dont have to have someone use a special move on me to be able to keep the buff going.

-Necroedarkslayer (Casual Fo Priest BTW)

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I keep hearing that caffeine was meant to help the casual (let's say, "time-constrained") user.  I missed that memo, and clearly the programmers did also.  The first version required a pretty heavy up-front time investment (forage for starter beans, either grow or forage more, make brewing device(s), either improve several skills or make a lot more product, etc.).  But at least with a 1g sip, the pay-off was there eventually.  The 'improved' version requires 200x as much liquid for the same pay-off, which takes 200x as much time to assemble.  This 'fix' is an inconvenience for the power (let's say "time-invested") user, but is nearly prohibitive for a person with a limited amount of play time.  

 

If you wanted a program to enhance the time-constrained user's play without rewarding the time-invested player, copy the Meditation model -- only allow caffeine use for a limited # of uses per day.  The fatigue de-buff mostly accomplishes that, (the exceptions being a very few fatigue-free skills, which opens a couple avenues for exploitation by the time-invested player).

 

I'm glad all the individual sips can be consumed in one go, refilling a measuring jug or pen 16 times was pretty annoying (even for this time-invested player, much worse if you are time-constrained).

 

I'm not unhappy with the timer/power/ql/volume issue.  Low ql food gives a shorter affinity timer, same as low ql caffeine drinks.  I don't particularly like the dependence of power on volume for caffeine, but it's much better than the near lack of dependence of affinity timer on volume of food consumed.  Also, why does drinking a low ql caffeine source immediately after a high ql caffeine source drop your timer?  Drinking low ql alcohol when drunk does NOT reset you to 'Tipsy'.

 

I really DESPISE that WURM encourages bulimia as the top choice for balancing ccfp/food/affinities.  I used to be able to avoid bulimia by gaining some affinities through beverages, utilizing both food and water bars.  Now, the fixed version of caffeine makes this problem even worse, making it extremely difficult to get to full power caffeine boost before your water bar is maxed out.

 

One more thing:  How about using the server uptime clock for the 10 min SB gain for your first sip?  That way, whenever something unfortunate happens at the server level, you will automatically be giving us all a tiny apology gift.  

 

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Simplify the cooking recipes for coffee... use some general simple amounts to set.. let us have this qol.. rather than be ocd maniacs setting measurements like 0.192kg water.... and same milk or w/e.. that is pretty insane amount of work to maximize gains per bean.. Seen some just not bother and use .100ml water directly, current recipes are pretty annoying.

 

Big sips of 0.2kg are pretty big... we're big fat wurmians.. but that's pff.. a lot.. if it's not directly giving 100 power and 1hour buff.. I wouldnt mind to spend 5liters or 50 beans worth a day for full day of grinding something.. but some sort of that kind of measurement.. and some easier way to maintain the coffee buff should be taken into account..

 

Right now main issue is big sips, and impossible use of coffee once thirst bar is full.

 

--edit

used caffeine once since last change, only managed to get 40 power which was 1.5 or 1.6x multiplier at best, had ~30-40% thirst only, usually playing with ~70-90 and ~30-40% hunger so I can buff with aff pizzas/meals as same issue creeps from food once the bar is full

Caffeine is simply useless(read impossible to control multipliers or use max if you want to) for grinds with alcohol spicing, even without the alcohol it's impossible to get 2x-4x multipliers now without spending hour/s to wait on thirst and rebuff with high ql caffeine drinks or using alts to make main puke.. even then it's impossible to maintain when using alcohol.

Edited by Finnn
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As i worked on prayer today on 2 priests i caught exactly when i broke the timers for caffeine both independent characters managed to trigger it at the same time. I started at 30 power wiht 97q Kahvesi, adding 10 power every 29 minutes, (with low Carbs your water depletes barely fast enough to get to 95% and drink again, but only with the highest level timer). All was fine until the drink to reach 70 power, at this time both timers broke, and went into perpetual 3 second cycling timers, does not seem to be anything more then a visual bug, ill see if it corrects in 30m when i can drink again for 80 power.... Im using a timer to catch the narrow re-drink window wihtout loss, ill let one toon go a bit long and see if it loses an power or confirm its just a visual bug with the timer. Then see if its fixed by the next drink.

 

update: visual bug only, power did decrease after elapsed timer as it should have, and drinking again fixed the timer bug.

Edited by VirusMD

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I have noticed at 80 nutrition, and full ccfp you can drink after about 9-10 minutes, this means coffee has to be a minimum of 40ql in order to have a long enough timer to support this playstyle. What I personally would like to see is a scale difference between power and timer, where tea has long timers but low power, and coffee has high power but low timers.

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On 11/20/2021 at 11:51 PM, Finnn said:

Simplify the cooking recipes for coffee... use some general simple amounts to set.. let us have this qol.. rather than be ocd maniacs setting measurements like 0.192kg water.... and same milk or w/e.. that is pretty insane amount of work to maximize gains per bean.. Seen some just not bother and use .100ml water directly, current recipes are pretty annoying.

 

Big sips of 0.2kg are pretty big... we're big fat wurmians.. but that's pff.. a lot.. if it's not directly giving 100 power and 1hour buff.. I wouldnt mind to spend 5liters or 50 beans worth a day for full day of grinding something.. but some sort of that kind of measurement.. and some easier way to maintain the coffee buff should be taken into account..

 

Right now main issue is big sips, and impossible use of coffee once thirst bar is full.

 

--edit

used caffeine once since last change, only managed to get 40 power which was 1.5 or 1.6x multiplier at best, had ~30-40% thirst only, usually playing with ~70-90 and ~30-40% hunger so I can buff with aff pizzas/meals as same issue creeps from food once the bar is full

Caffeine is simply useless(read impossible to control multipliers or use max if you want to) for grinds with alcohol spicing, even without the alcohol it's impossible to get 2x-4x multipliers now without spending hour/s to wait on thirst and rebuff with high ql caffeine drinks or using alts to make main puke.. even then it's impossible to maintain when using alcohol.

please consider qol for food in similar manner to caffeine if that is decided to be implemented, as we can not buff with food once hunger bar is full, and alt/puking/waiting/etc shenanigans are the only way to deal with it

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On 11/16/2021 at 5:02 PM, Tpikol said:

my suggestion for how to change is keep it simple: make any coffe at any ql give full power , make coffe ignore the water bar and make the timers go up the same way the afinities for food do, the more you drink the longer the timer is without a cap.

after reading some of the replies here from people trying to get whatever would benefit themselves the most to happen i will say that will not use coffe if its implemented the way i propose, because im not the target audience but i really think it would be the best solution.

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On 11/21/2021 at 10:51 AM, Finnn said:

Simplify the cooking recipes for coffee... use some general simple amounts to set.. let us have this qol.. rather than be ocd maniacs setting measurements like 0.192kg water.... and same milk or w/e.. that is pretty insane amount of work to maximize gains per bean.. Seen some just not bother and use .100ml water directly, current recipes are pretty annoying.

 

I agree with this, the minimum water requirement making you do multiple water volumes makes it a chore to make.
And you have to make so much of it and manage water intake, I wouldn't be surprised if many people don't bother using caffeine.

 

 

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Yeah, gotta say as someone who has never been a grinder, that first week of caffeine in the game was heaven for me. I managed to work on a smattering of skills I sorely needed to level up to unlock access to a new items in and it even inspired me to skill up one new skill entirely from 0 to 50 that I'd been putting off for years and did it in short 1 hour bursts over several days which is about as long as I can concentrate on any kind of grind for. Since the nerf, most people except for the folk who were already seasoned and steadfast longterm grinders seem to have, like me, just put caffeine back down and not bothered with it, which is a shame. I get that the 1g sips were too powerful, but I think you took something that was a bit too good and made it so not good that it's just not worth contemplating the trouble for most players, and particularly for the time-pressed players I think you meant this for.

 

I hope the next update to caffeine, if it's more of a middle ground between the two, is something closer to what you originally launched than to what we have now.

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