Darklords

Meditation PvP Caps Review

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How would people feel about merging meditation levels(highest of the 2) and meditation paths(picks your highest level with a free transfer enabled) for defiance and the other NFI servers?

(Edit:To clarify this would be a permanent merger and would cross between pve and pvp NFI.)

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9 hours ago, Darklords said:

How would people feel about merging meditation levels(highest of the 2) and meditation paths(picks your highest level with a free transfer enabled) for defiance and the other NFI servers?

So meditation would then be all returned to normal and uncapped on Defiance? Only way I really see merging make sense at least

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Why not just uncap the level 11 perks as-is, but allow people to change more than once through the premium rewards system?  Let players keep their meditation level, but periodically switch depending on what they're focused on. I think it'd be a fun mechanic and a nice way to keep the game interesting.

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10 hours ago, Darklords said:

How would people feel about merging meditation levels(highest of the 2) and meditation paths(picks your highest level with a free transfer enabled) for defiance and the other NFI servers?

 

so the meditation paths are first merged and then afterwards they remain independent between pve/pvp? either way sure, just wanted some clarification tho

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13 hours ago, Darklords said:

How would people feel about merging meditation levels(highest of the 2) and meditation paths(picks your highest level with a free transfer enabled) for defiance and the other NFI servers?

 

I'm not on NFI so I have no right to comment on this.

 

But if was going to comment I would say great, assuming there is one meditation path that applies to both PvP and PvE (i.e., they are no longer separate), then this forces players to choose which path they want, and that's the way it's supposed to be.

 

SotG might still need to be nerfed some more, maybe down to 20% or even 15% if the vast majority of PvPers continue choosing it.

 

The same single-path rule should also be applied to Epic/SFI as it's only fair.

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44 minutes ago, Mowglia said:

SotG might still need to be nerfed some more, maybe down to 20% or even 15% if the vast majority of PvPers continue choosing it.

sotg hasn't been op since people slapped each other with longswords in normal fighting while wearing plate lol, people are just really slow on metas, you've still got people trying to adapt to the priest changes from sindusk however many years ago that was. powers stamina+elemental immunity is infinitely better at keeping you alive as most deaths are caused by either running out of stamina, dragging a dozen mobs running around or getting slapped by 5+ people at once which a higher health pool might make you live a few seconds longer that you're stunned through and cant move anyway, and forcing the enemy to use rt+demise instead of fb/fa+salves (not a thing on defiance i guess, but you're still taking away their 33% bonus damage by removing their fb/fa, rt sucks and bt takes a lot of investment for a single weapon) lowers their damage by about the same as what sotg does anyway. it's really one of the most overrated abilities in the game, only good for mine hopping cancer

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7 hours ago, platinumteef said:

 

so the meditation paths are first merged and then afterwards they remain independent between pve/pvp? either way sure, just wanted some clarification tho

 

4 hours ago, Mowglia said:

 

I'm not on NFI so I have no right to comment on this.

 

But if was going to comment I would say great, assuming there is one meditation path that applies to both PvP and PvE (i.e., they are no longer separate), then this forces players to choose which path they want, and that's the way it's supposed to be.

 

SotG might still need to be nerfed some more, maybe down to 20% or even 15% if the vast majority of PvPers continue choosing it.

 

The same single-path rule should also be applied to Epic/SFI as it's only fair.

They would be merged permanently with something like that and cross back and forth. It would not have to be one or the other that can come along with things like nerfs to sotg. This would also carry over to the epic nerfs to meditation as well as defiance for the uncapping.

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I'm all for merging.

That being said, any big changes to meditation like this really should come with a free, time limited transfer to any meditation path IMO.

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So basically the solution that is being offered to NFI is to revert back to the old med system? I'd rather things stay the way they are now. Would suck that once again meditation 70 would be a requirement to pvp. Sucks to all the players who purposely didn't grind med past 30 because it wasn't needed for defiance and sucks for all the new players because it's gonna put them at a huge disadvantage. Not having Path of power, the meta where players can run up and down mountains and swim for miles.. run across the map without losing staminia, was a net benefit to pvp. Defiance is better for not having med path 11 abilities. Right now there are no more objectives... no reasons to fight. Hota is rubbish and people just stumble into camps while hunting. Aside from potentially small skirmishes on starter islands not really much to fight for so there isn''t much PVP. However if you start having characters with path of power its going to become far harder to get kills. Imagine trying to kill Jomog with the scale and path of power 11? He'll just walk up a mountain or run all the way home (just as an example).

 

The only exception is PoK because that doesnt affect PVP. The only difference POK 11 makes is people will grind on Defiance instead of Freedom. Otherwise no point even coming onto Defiance at all unless there is a ping for pvp once they have POK on freedom.

 

If the only choices are to go back to the old meditation system where all path 11's are allowed and med is merged.. or things stay the same I'd way prefer things stay the same and we all just grind on freedom.

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10 hours ago, Darklords said:

 

They would be merged permanently with something like that and cross back and forth. It would not have to be one or the other that can come along with things like nerfs to sotg. This would also carry over to the epic nerfs to meditation as well as defiance for the uncapping.

 

Would this affect those on epic who travel to freedom, or is that different?  I don't want to travel to freedom for some sort of event and then somehow lose my med level on epic.

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really don't want the original med paths 11 on defiance to ruin it

 

ive had a toon as every iteration of these broken mechanics, power champ, hate champ, sotg champ, sotg, power70+stam, and pvp'd as pok on chaos and epic against a solid group of players and not just some randos.

sotg is an absolute necessity and its only viable to not have if your enemy is brand new to the game or just straight up dumb, sorry. power doesn't work unless you are a player with the scale of lib (and know which direction to face your shield and what stance to be in etc) or are a champ, or just have so much of a better account than your opponent it wouldn't have mattered either way.

 

25% skill bonus pok was requested because it literally does not affect pvp whatsoever. Hell you could do with a titrate upwards as a scaling bonus like sotg was done for insanity and just do it for all paths as a secondary bonus

 

at this point i'd rather see the game improved in reasons to be on defiance including qol changes for it rather than having really horrible mechanics added back into the fray. whats next, the highly balanced imbues make an entrance to defiance? (just joking here for anyone that doesn't realize it, they're broken and everyone that pvp's hates them)

 

the only people that are really wanting to add these "great mechanics" are people that 

1. already have them on chaos and are playing there and just don't care what happens

2. haven't experienced them personally ever in their life and want to feel cool and feel like they've missed out on something but don't want to play on chaos

3. play on epic, which im sorry is considered a pve cluster at this point due to the plethora of broken pvp mechanics on elevation and low population due to one way skill transfers

4. just don't understand the actual flow of gameplay or a combination of these four points

 

you're likely to see the loss of more players(is it even possible after we have went almost 12 months with no pvp changes since launch?) with these changes added, really no matter how you do it than you are anything else, anyone saying "oh thats just a small amount of DR LOL I'll take my pok over that any day!" are straight up people who don't pvp

Edited by platinumteef
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10 hours ago, Darklords said:

It would not have to be one or the other that can come along with things like nerfs to sotg.

 

Could sotg be put on a timer, so upon player activation it's only on for a set amount of time once per day?  That would provide the initial advantage, but make it maybe the less only obvious solution on pvp servers than the other options. 

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Just now, Sjarn said:

 

Could sotg be put on a timer, so upon player activation it's only on for a set amount of time once per day?  That would provide the initial advantage, but make it maybe the less only obvious solution on pvp servers than the other options. 

 

No, that does not fix the problem.

 

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1 minute ago, Firecat said:

No, that does not fix the problem.

 

Why not?  Seems like it would.  Means you have to decide when to take advantage of it.

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If sotg is on a timer it's similar to continuium. That tome along with others were removed from Defiance because they are too powerful.

 

Goodluck trying to raid a deed against a bunch of people with SOTG whether they have timers or not. Just slap down mine hops everywhere and co-ordinate when the turn it on for your push and you'll have hops everywhere for safety. PvP is already a rare occurance.. why give people more escape mechanisms.. which means less death tabs.. less pvp activity. It's also just going to make the strong much much stronger and the casual players, newbies, weaker accounts are going to suffer.

 

Imagine being a new player wanting to pvp and being told.. hey you have to grind meditating otherwise you'll be at a huge disadvantage? Yeah that isn''t going to encourage people to play when meditating is literally one of the worst and most boring/tedious skills to grind.

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49 minutes ago, Sjarn said:

 

Would this affect those on epic who travel to freedom, or is that different?  I don't want to travel to freedom for some sort of event and then somehow lose my med level on epic.

The merging of meditation level/path would be for defiance/NFI only, the other changes would be for defiance/elevation together.

 

46 minutes ago, platinumteef said:

really don't want the original med paths 11 on defiance to ruin it

 

ive had a toon as every iteration of these broken mechanics, power champ, hate champ, sotg champ, sotg, power70+stam, and pvp'd as pok on chaos and epic against a solid group of players and not just some randos.

sotg is an absolute necessity and its only viable to not have if your enemy is brand new to the game or just straight up dumb, sorry. power doesn't work unless you are a player with the scale of lib (and know which direction to face your shield and what stance to be in etc) or are a champ, or just have so much of a better account than your opponent it wouldn't have mattered either way.

 

25% skill bonus pok was requested because it literally does not affect pvp whatsoever. Hell you could do with a titrate upwards as a scaling bonus like sotg was done for insanity and just do it for all paths as a secondary bonus

 

at this point i'd rather see the game improved in reasons to be on defiance including qol changes for it rather than having really horrible mechanics added back into the fray. whats next, the highly balanced imbues make an entrance to defiance? (just joking here for anyone that doesn't realize it, they're broken and everyone that pvp's hates them)

 

the only people that are really wanting to add these "great mechanics" are people that 

1. already have them on chaos and are playing there and just don't care what happens

2. haven't experienced them personally ever in their life and want to feel cool and feel like they've missed out on something but don't want to play on chaos

3. play on epic, which im sorry is considered a pve cluster at this point due to the plethora of broken pvp mechanics on elevation and low population due to one way skill transfers

4. just don't understand the actual flow of gameplay or a combination of these four points

 

you're likely to see the loss of more players(is it even possible after we have went almost 12 months with no pvp changes since launch?) with these changes added, really no matter how you do it than you are anything else, anyone saying "oh thats just a small amount of DR LOL I'll take my pok over that any day!" are straight up people who don't pvp

The changes to the trouble level 11 abilities are still on the table along with the merger, we could just outright change insanity to another effect like how double damage was changed into a lockpicking bonus.

 

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Just set all level 11 abilities to 25% PoK and be done with it?

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1 minute ago, Darklords said:

The merging of meditation level/path would be for defiance/NFI only, the other changes would be for both.

 

The changes to the trouble level 11 abilities are still on the table along with the merger, we could just outright change insanity to another effect like how double damage was changed into a lockpicking bonus.

 

If that is an option then why not make all path 11 POK like we asked for? That way no PvP is effected whatsoever and we can grind on defiance and not freedom?

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Just now, Darklords said:

The changes to the trouble level 11 abilities are still on the table along with the merger, we could just outright change insanity to another effect like how double damage was changed into a lockpicking bonus.

 

power is a massive issue as well though

hate 11 immunity to single target spells including tangleweave is also a problem

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If it's so easy to change the broken pvp med abilities then why not just change it to POK at lvl 11 like everyone has been asking for? Why try bothering adding a feature that alot of people don't want? I haven't seen anyone against having POK 11 for all defiance med paths. Why not go with the popular solution that everyone wants and will be happy with?

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8 hours ago, raxias said:

If it's so easy to change the broken pvp med abilities then why not just change it to POK at lvl 11 like everyone has been asking for? Why try bothering adding a feature that alot of people don't want? I haven't seen anyone against having POK 11 for all defiance med paths. Why not go with the popular solution that everyone wants and will be happy with?

 

Probably too hard to implement since it has never been done before.  From the dev perspective it's probably easier to implement all meditation paths across the board like on SFI but if that's the case then I'd rather keep defiance how it is.

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PoK 25% on all paths @ level 11 seems like the way to go.

No extra damage or DR or whatever, just a simple incentive to not grind on PvE instead of PvP and try and bring some players back.

 

No point trying to stall this any longer devs, your pvp community literally spends hundreds and hundreds(some have spent thousands) of dollars to play on a dying server and we feel neglected and simply let down. 

I wouldn't be suprised if you see more people leave.

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Yap ppl pay for sleep bonus and early meditators on freedom by now literally ahead by 3 months for free

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6 hours ago, Zykat said:

PoK 25% on all paths @ level 11 seems like the way to go.

No extra damage or DR or whatever, just a simple incentive to not grind on PvE instead of PvP and try and bring some players back.

 

No point trying to stall this any longer devs, your pvp community literally spends hundreds and hundreds(some have spent thousands) of dollars to play on a dying server and we feel neglected and simply let down. 

I wouldn't be suprised if you see more people leave.

 

I sympathise with this as my home (Epic) has been on the sharp end of this exact situation for years now. It's a vicious circle. Players leave and the community gets smaller, more players leave, and the devs are less likely to invest time and effort into a server that's less active; the thing just spirals downwards. Wurm is already niche, and PvP is a niche within a niche.

 

There's only so much the devs can do though, and they can't work miracles. Many players left Epic blaming the mechanics and "broken" PvP, but in the end that's just excuses. The mechanics might not be perfect, but they're good enough to do what needs to be done.

 

We just have to be pragmatic and learn to live with relatively small populations on PvP servers. There's still plenty of fun to be had, and there will always be players roaming these servers looking for a fight.

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3 hours ago, Mowglia said:

There's only so much the devs can do though, and they can't work miracles.

 

The change mentioned - setting all path level 11 abilities to the 25% skill gain bonus of PoK - would take about 10 minutes to implement for Defiance specifically. That's what's being recommended.

 

3 hours ago, Mowglia said:

Many players left Epic blaming the mechanics and "broken" PvP, but in the end that's just excuses. The mechanics might not be perfect, but they're good enough to do what needs to be done.

 

Fixing broken mechanics "properly" and solving the underlying problems with them takes a lot of time. That's being recommended against.

 

I don't think anyone is asking for a miracle. They're asking for 10 minutes of time for a game they pay $10 a month to play. If the development team does not want to implement the PoK bonus to all paths on Defiance, all they have to do is say so and explain why. I figure that would also take about 10 minutes.

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