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Darklords

Meditation PvP Caps Review

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3 hours ago, Sindusk said:

I don't think anyone is asking for a miracle. They're asking for 10 minutes of time for a game they pay $10 a month to play. If the development team does not want to implement the PoK bonus to all paths on Defiance, all they have to do is say so and explain why. I figure that would also take about 10 minutes.

+10000

some of us with multiple accounts are even paying upwards of $50 a month, not including silver purchases for deeds etc.

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9 hours ago, Sindusk said:

The change mentioned - setting all path level 11 abilities to the 25% skill gain bonus of PoK - would take about 10 minutes to implement for Defiance specifically. That's what's being recommended.

 

My point was more general (responding to Zykat's post); specifically this change of which you speak is not going to reverse the fortunes of Defiance long term. Players need to accept the reality of low PvP server populations, as ultimately that's where Defiance is headed.

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1 hour ago, Mowglia said:

 

My point was more general (responding to Zykat's post); specifically this change of which you speak is not going to reverse the fortunes of Defiance long term. Players need to accept the reality of low PvP server populations, as ultimately that's where Defiance is headed.

I do not see how this is relevant at all? 

SO because other servers have died and continue to die, we should ignore defiance and just let it die because its inevitable its going to die?

 

Thanks for the defeatist input, real big help and I'm sure that will encourage the forever dying PvP servers to grow....

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4 hours ago, Pnutp said:

I do not see how this is relevant at all? 

SO because other servers have died and continue to die, we should ignore defiance and just let it die because its inevitable its going to die?

 

Thanks for the defeatist input, real big help and I'm sure that will encourage the forever dying PvP servers to grow....

 

Don't twist my words.

 

Zykat said "No point trying to stall this any longer devs, your pvp community literally spends hundreds and hundreds(some have spent thousands) of dollars to play on a dying server and we feel neglected and simply let down. 

I wouldn't be suprised if you see more people leave."

 

So my point was simply that you guys need to get realistic and accept that PvP servers are naturally low population.

 

You are the ones talking about dying and dead servers, not me. I'm all for encouraging PvP servers to grow (see the recent threads regarding Epic, where we spent quite some time thinking about precisely this).

 

That said, since this subject isn't about meditation caps, we can leave it there.

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I think giving all medtation the PoK perk is the simplest solution to address mutliple problems. I would prefare a more balanced system were Insanety and Power are not the go to choices for pvp (if the current reward would be allowd on Defiance) and every one is some what viable. But this would require a lot of rework on all abiletys and maybe meditation as its whole. Its not a option I currently see a reason to put dev time into it. Yes meditation need a update/overhaul but this is a general thing but on my personal preference its somthing that can be put on the backburner and is nothing we shuld jsut breack over the knee for a single PvP server and get some mediocer qualety out of it.

 

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Go with PoK 25%

 

Allows those who are convinced that this perk would revitalise server numbers, to test that theory.

Allows those who feel forced to play on Freedom, the freedom to choose where to play.

Even those who might dream of something else, don't feel that PoK 25% at 11* is something to downvote as broken.

And if any Dev has a pet project they somehow want player-blessing to develop for Meditation, a simple fix like this in the short-term can always be patched over at some later date.

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Now there is a very big difference in the strengths of the characters. Someone played actively from the first day, someone only played very little. In pvp, the introduction of new levels of meditation will further discard weak characters. My opinion is that you shouldn't do this with such an online now.

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9 minutes ago, Goremor said:

Now there is a very big difference in the strengths of the characters. Someone played actively from the first day, someone only played very little. In pvp, the introduction of new levels of meditation will further discard weak characters. My opinion is that you shouldn't do this with such an online now.

The main point of everyone, if you read the topic, is just to somewhat level PVE and PVP skillgain. Why should someone who has been on PVE be way ahead without any extra effort?!

 

Would there be any reason at all for any sort of veterans to do their daily grinds on PVP over PVE when they can just get 25% skillgain by clicking a portal?

Edited by Joemog
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Unfortunately after some discussion this week with the rest of the dev team the 25% skill bonus across the board for all level 11 passive effects would not be something we wanted to do. We would much prefer to make changes that keep each path unique instead of just replacing them with a single skill bonus effect across the board. Knowledge was always a trade off of a large skill gain bonus in exchange for not having the other more combat oriented effects and we don't want every path to just have a large skill bonus with no trade off.
 
With that in mind, how would the following sound to everyone? Nothing is final and these changes would be for defiance/elevation only.
 
Meditation path/level will be merged between NFI servers.(NFI Only)
 
Level 11 changes
Knowledge: Unchanged
Love: Reduced to 40% healing bonuses(Was 50% healing bonus)
Power: Reduced to +10 body stamina bonus(Was +30 body stamina bonus)
Hate: Reduced to 30% chance to resist offensive spells(Was 100% chance to avoid offensive spells)
Insanity: Changed to 25% extra max carry weight(Was a scaling damage reduction buff from 6-30%)
 
 
These changes would come with the ability to swap your path 1 time within a month or so of the update.

I would also like to clarify that in keeping with the removal of teleports back to safety like karma teleport on defiance/elevation recall home will not be enabled still.

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1 hour ago, Darklords said:
Unfortunately after some discussion this week with the rest of the dev team the 25% skill bonus across the board for all level 11 passive effects would not be something we wanted to do. We would much prefer to make changes that keep each path unique instead of just replacing them with a single skill bonus effect across the board. Knowledge was always a trade off of a large skill gain bonus in exchange for not having the other more combat oriented effects and we don't want every path to just have a large skill bonus with no trade off.
 
With that in mind, how would the following sound to everyone? Nothing is final and these changes would be for defiance/elevation only.
 
Meditation path/level will be merged between NFI servers.(NFI Only)
 
Level 11 changes
Knowledge: Unchanged
Love: Reduced to 40% healing bonuses(Was 50% healing bonus)
Power: Reduced to +10 body stamina bonus(Was +30 body stamina bonus)
Hate: Reduced to 30% chance to resist offensive spells(Was 100% chance to avoid offensive spells)
Insanity: Changed to 25% extra max carry weight(Was a scaling damage reduction buff from 6-30%)
 
 
These changes would come with the ability to swap your path 1 time within a month or so of the update.

I would also like to clarify that in keeping with the removal of teleports back to safety like karma teleport on defiance/elevation recall home will not be enabled still.

Lvl 9 insanity "random teleport" is that disabled or changed as well?

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1 hour ago, Darklords said:
Unfortunately after some discussion this week with the rest of the dev team the 25% skill bonus across the board for all level 11 passive effects would not be something we wanted to do. We would much prefer to make changes that keep each path unique instead of just replacing them with a single skill bonus effect across the board. Knowledge was always a trade off of a large skill gain bonus in exchange for not having the other more combat oriented effects and we don't want every path to just have a large skill bonus with no trade off.
 
With that in mind, how would the following sound to everyone? Nothing is final and these changes would be for defiance/elevation only.
 
Meditation path/level will be merged between NFI servers.(NFI Only)
 
Level 11 changes
Knowledge: Unchanged
Love: Reduced to 40% healing bonuses(Was 50% healing bonus)
Power: Reduced to +10 body stamina bonus(Was +30 body stamina bonus)
Hate: Reduced to 30% chance to resist offensive spells(Was 100% chance to avoid offensive spells)
Insanity: Changed to 25% extra max carry weight(Was a scaling damage reduction buff from 6-30%)
 
 
These changes would come with the ability to swap your path 1 time within a month or so of the update.

I would also like to clarify that in keeping with the removal of teleports back to safety like karma teleport on defiance/elevation recall home will not be enabled still.

Everyone just going to be POK then...

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1 hour ago, Darklords said:
Unfortunately after some discussion this week with the rest of the dev team the 25% skill bonus across the board for all level 11 passive effects would not be something we wanted to do. We would much prefer to make changes that keep each path unique instead of just replacing them with a single skill bonus effect across the board. Knowledge was always a trade off of a large skill gain bonus in exchange for not having the other more combat oriented effects and we don't want every path to just have a large skill bonus with no trade off.
 
With that in mind, how would the following sound to everyone? Nothing is final and these changes would be for defiance/elevation only.
 
Meditation path/level will be merged between NFI servers.(NFI Only)
 
Level 11 changes
Knowledge: Unchanged
Love: Reduced to 40% healing bonuses(Was 50% healing bonus)
Power: Reduced to +10 body stamina bonus(Was +30 body stamina bonus)
Hate: Reduced to 30% chance to resist offensive spells(Was 100% chance to avoid offensive spells)
Insanity: Changed to 25% extra max carry weight(Was a scaling damage reduction buff from 6-30%)
 
 
These changes would come with the ability to swap your path 1 time within a month or so of the update.

I would also like to clarify that in keeping with the removal of teleports back to safety like karma teleport on defiance/elevation recall home will not be enabled still.

 

No I reallllly hate the idea. Just leave defiance as it is if you aren't adding in POK for all lvl 11.

 

The community told you what they wanted and if the Dev team don't wanna give it then fine, sucks but whatever. We don't want any other med changes however.

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1 hour ago, Darklords said:

Love: Reduced to 40% healing bonuses(Was 50% healing bonus)

why was love reduced? i think the last person to use love 11 in pvp was gary in like, ele 1 i think? it's not even the best healing path because hate gets the tangleweave immunity(resistance with change, but 30% tangleweave resistance is still better than extra healing, because you're capped by wounds healed not damage healed in 99% of cases, and if enemies in chain/plate it's close to 50% because of their chance to fail the cast from armour + 30% resistance)

stamina curves so weirdly that +10 is mediocre for basically anyone under 70 stam, but ele immunity makes up for that. how stamina reduction probably needs a rework to flatten its insane curve at higher skills anyway

insanity seems kind of useless? like it'd be useful on chaos where you can grab corpses and having 200kg of loot in your inventory isn't a rare occurance but on ele/defiance where you can't loot with enemies nearby/gravestones it seems out of place, and being pok would indirectly increase your carry weight through extra strength anyway

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POK can't be nerfed due to the freedom having had it and everything, that makes sense. Also means the others can't be nerfed THAT much IMO.

Was there issues with love at 50%? Seems fine to keep at that to me.

Power: Combine the flat 10 and add a multiplicative 20% reduced stamina to make it a little stronger than the crazy nerf and better for newer players since the flat mostly benefits high stamina accounts.

Hate: 30% chance to resist spell and 30% reduced dmg from spells

Insanity: I dont see myself ever choosing carry weight over anything... If on this theme make it so your inventory acts 25% lighter for riding, stam drain and stuff too atleast instead of the max carry weight thing.

If we want something cool insanity themed maybe a random chance to add a smaller power cast effect on your melee hits. So it either heals u a little bit or does extra dmg of different kinds.

 

That being said, anything is WAY better than nothing

Edited by Joemog

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Quote

 

Level 11 changes
Knowledge: Unchanged
Love: Reduced to 40% healing bonuses(Was 50% healing bonus)
Power: Reduced to +10 body stamina bonus(Was +30 body stamina bonus)
Hate: Reduced to 30% chance to resist offensive spells(Was 100% chance to avoid offensive spells)
Insanity: Changed to 25% extra max carry weight(Was a scaling damage reduction buff from 6-30%)

 

 

 
Insanity very weak. Bec who want it, all other are better.
Hate - ok.
Power - ok.
Love - need more reduce healing bonus or change it. Bec meta. Very big% player play with sicle with LT enchent. Bec its too powerfull. And now it will be buffed. Its up for White Lighers and nerf BL who live on start island arleady. Players like Trash unkileble now with sickle and LT what will be with this buf?
 

 

Edited by Goremor

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24 minutes ago, Goremor said:

 

 
Insanity very weak. Bec who want it, all other are better.
Hate - ok.
Power - ok.
Love - need more reduce healing bonus or change it. Bec meta. Very big% player play with sicle with LT enchent. Bec its too powerfull. And now it will be buffed. Its up for White Lighers and nerf BL who live on start island arleady. Players like Trash unkileble now with sickle and LT what will be with this buf?
 

 

no worries i just want pok

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20 hours ago, Darklords said:
Unfortunately after some discussion this week with the rest of the dev team the 25% skill bonus across the board for all level 11 passive effects would not be something we wanted to do. We would much prefer to make changes that keep each path unique instead of just replacing them with a single skill bonus effect across the board. Knowledge was always a trade off of a large skill gain bonus in exchange for not having the other more combat oriented effects and we don't want every path to just have a large skill bonus with no trade off.
 
With that in mind, how would the following sound to everyone? Nothing is final and these changes would be for defiance/elevation only.
 
Meditation path/level will be merged between NFI servers.(NFI Only)
 
Level 11 changes
Knowledge: Unchanged
Love: Reduced to 40% healing bonuses(Was 50% healing bonus)
Power: Reduced to +10 body stamina bonus(Was +30 body stamina bonus)
Hate: Reduced to 30% chance to resist offensive spells(Was 100% chance to avoid offensive spells)
Insanity: Changed to 25% extra max carry weight(Was a scaling damage reduction buff from 6-30%)
 
 
These changes would come with the ability to swap your path 1 time within a month or so of the update.

I would also like to clarify that in keeping with the removal of teleports back to safety like karma teleport on defiance/elevation recall home will not be enabled still.

 

This is the right idea, in general.

 

Knowledge and Love are ok I think. Power is probably ok. Hate might be ok too (not sure).

 

But Insanity is definitely not ok. SotG ought to be retained, and if 6% - 30% is too much damage resistance, maybe just tweak it down a bit to 5% - 25%, 4% - 20%, or even 3% - 15%. Just balance it, there's no need to get rid of it?

 

No one will take a path for carry weight. You'd have to be insane. And although that's appropriate on one level, let's just not go there :mellow:

 

Also, I'd give more time to swap paths (and perhaps a single-shot change that could be used indefinitely). If a player returns after 6/12 months out, they're gonna wonder what the hell happened to their SotG with no way to fix it.

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On 12/7/2021 at 12:02 PM, Darklords said:
Unfortunately after some discussion this week with the rest of the dev team the 25% skill bonus across the board for all level 11 passive effects would not be something we wanted to do. We would much prefer to make changes that keep each path unique instead of just replacing them with a single skill bonus effect across the board. Knowledge was always a trade off of a large skill gain bonus in exchange for not having the other more combat oriented effects and we don't want every path to just have a large skill bonus with no trade off.
 
With that in mind, how would the following sound to everyone? Nothing is final and these changes would be for defiance/elevation only.
 
Meditation path/level will be merged between NFI servers.(NFI Only)
 
Level 11 changes
Knowledge: Unchanged
Love: Reduced to 40% healing bonuses(Was 50% healing bonus)
Power: Reduced to +10 body stamina bonus(Was +30 body stamina bonus)
Hate: Reduced to 30% chance to resist offensive spells(Was 100% chance to avoid offensive spells)
Insanity: Changed to 25% extra max carry weight(Was a scaling damage reduction buff from 6-30%)
 
 
These changes would come with the ability to swap your path 1 time within a month or so of the update.

I would also like to clarify that in keeping with the removal of teleports back to safety like karma teleport on defiance/elevation recall home will not be enabled still.

I said this a lot at the start of the server, but I'll say it again - If the PvP-oriented paths don't give a skill gain bonus, then people will continue to spend the majority of their time grinding on PvE servers as that will be the most "optimum" choice.

 

If you want people to spend more time on the PvP servers, then there needs to be a reason to play there when active PvP isn't occurring. The most simple answer would be to give all paths the 25% skill gain bonus, but if that's out of the question then similar alternatives need to be considered. For example, one alternative could be to use your suggested meditation path changes, but combine that with some kind of permanent skill gain bonus for everyone on PvP servers, or something along those lines. 

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Insanity: Changed to 25% extra max carry weight(Was a scaling damage reduction buff from 6-30%) 

 

too much up , you need something like "you cut your veins every 5 min, and you get 5 damage"

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I don't see much benefit for the insanity, maybe either a permanent or activatable take X% more damage and deal Y% more damage for insanity for the duration with an aura or other visible sign to balance it out and make people know who to attack.

Maybe even reduce dodge chance too, done properly it might even be good for those who enjoy using two handed weapons.

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The new path of hate leaves a sour taste in the mouth on a first read :p (specially since we still lost our 50% tempo dmg increase)
Path of love could probably remain 50% imo. 
Path of insanity needs something new.
Path of power sounds good.

PoK is useful as always.

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why the need to be merge PvP path with Freedom path? Why make PvP players change there freedom path? I don't really agree with any path even giving a slight PvP increase and then making you have a pointless path on freedom to increase your PvP chances.... another way to encourage freedomers to not want to go to PvP imo

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On 12/7/2021 at 1:30 PM, Joemog said:

Everyone just going to be POK then...

So now if I play on Defiance as a combatant, I have to grind meditation to lvl 11, and I have to be PoK. Great. That's just PoI all over again. In fact it's worse as they are to be merged across all Northern servers.

 

On 12/7/2021 at 12:02 PM, Darklords said:
Unfortunately after some discussion this week with the rest of the dev team the 25% skill bonus across the board for all level 11 passive effects would not be something we wanted to do. We would much prefer to make changes that keep each path unique instead of just replacing them with a single skill bonus effect across the board. Knowledge was always a trade off of a large skill gain bonus in exchange for not having the other more combat oriented effects and we don't want every path to just have a large skill bonus with no trade off.

If you were proposing to remove all meditation paths from Defiance except PoK and saying that unless you change your meditation path in the next month, you will have to start from Path Level 0 again if you want to play PvP as a main on Northern Cluster, you would be proposing the same thing, except that you are still allowed to have an alt to cast enchanted grass etc.

 

So if your vision is to achieve having every serious player on Northern go PoK, regardless of whether they play pve or pvp, congratulations. You have your solution in massively nerfing choice, to preserve the integrity of each path's unique ideology.

 

1 main's path, and 4 alt's paths to choose from. Because it's such FUN to grind meditation on alt accounts to perform vital deed development and maintenance tasks. None of which accounts will ever have any use for the 'combat' bonuses of that path.

 

At the very least, code the timer to change meditation path from a month from the first time you next log in on Defiance, whether that be log into game on Defiance, or use the pvp portal. I don't want to lose all possibility of players from Freedom choosing to play here, and established players not wanting to play here again, into the bargain.

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I have an equally radical but ideology-preserving alternative to propose:

 

Vynora as a Kingdom Deity is disabled on Defiance. A fact that skews Valrei as a game-board and regularly tries to destabilise the code for it.

 

So why not make PoK benefits - a totally Vynora-centric ideology path - a passive benefit on Defiance linked to meditation level, and keep the ability to have a separate meditation path on Defiance regardless of Freedom meditation choices, whilst disabling the standard mechanics for PoK itself on Defiance?

 

(To balance the fact that we cannot have PMKs that can make use of Vynora. Or highways. Or merchants. Or any kind of fiscal economy etc. etc. etc..)

Edited by Drayka

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