AH results since latest "fix"

[ChampagneDragon 971]

Am I the only one who is having a really tough time with breeding results since the last AH fix? 80.30 AH.. these are the bison born today:

parents perfectly matched,, not related:

 

 

Offspring:

 

 

I have dozens more like this. In fact, this is now the normal for me.

 

The draft traits aren't passing on, are being replaced by NEW misc traits.

[Keenan 5,539]

We'll be looking into this more. With the number of complaints, I don't think it's where we want it to be.

[Fairyshine 3,183]

I always thought the old system was bad. Now I wish we could have it back. No "five speed" horses ever again because someone decided there shalt be  no mix of draft and speed... why? Isn't this game about giving players control and freedom? Now it seems players have little to no control over...anything at all? Useless traits. Convoluted and confusing. Slow carts and wagons.  Wish we could go back to what we had.

[CistaCista 253]

If we are talking about the core traits for maxed-out speed horses and draft animals?

 

Then I - with AH 68 and being the main provider of horses on NFI - get maxed-out animals so ubiquitously now, that I have long since completely stopped breeding speed horses. And reduced my draft horse breeding to a minimum now.

 

Anyone that knows anything can attest that Freedom prices on maxed out speed horses, draft horses and mules have already completely collapsed since the May expansion - nothing unexpected about that, that's how such waves work. 

 

So I really don't see what the problem is in that area. Everyone can now make maxed out horses after a little effort.

 

For additional traits (pvp traits) it can be another story.

 

 

Edited November 1, 2021 by CistaCista

[Finnn 3,303]

Is it possible to remove "speed" trait transfers normal and rare from bisons(normal at least transfer perfectly fine and they are completely useless on these creatures)

[SmeJack 5,798]

I've been ignoring this guy in the pen for a few days now because im not sure if I should laugh or cry

 

 

obviously his parents look nothing like this nor is he the colour of either of them

Edited November 1, 2021 by SmeJack

[Yserin 171]

4 hours ago, SmeJack said:

I've been ignoring this guy in the pen for a few days now because im not sure if I should laugh or cry

 

 

obviously his parents look nothing like this nor is he the colour of either of them

 

I see this kind of thing every few foals too. but I am finally seeing 4 draft semi regularly or at least more regularly then before. but the 20 cost trait loves to roll off often to replace with misc. I assume this is partly deliberate and the misc is what randoms on from the available pool. since we need some way to gain new traits just wish it wasnt at the cost of current ones.

 

 

I like the new traits I just wish it was the new traits using the old breeding system where its more lineage based weighted by both parents instead of what we got going on now.

 

split parents 4s/4d also drop down pretty consistantly to 3 of the target traits then fill in with misc. but I am not certan if this is a bug or part of the risk of having horses with polar opposite traits breed.

 

 

 

Cistacista

"Then I - with AH 68 and being the main provider of horses on NFI "

^ This shouldn't have been the normal or standard to begin with imo aside from the expensive to buy things early rush of new maps.xD for the game and is a sign that something was broken. A single player having the majority of sales across 3 maps with little competition because other people cant breed for their own animals let alone try to sell them that needed a fix which I feel is slowly being fixed. if you dont have competition because you can afford to brute force the odds by having 1-2 large deeds of breeding pairs something is wrong. part of this game is being able to reach the 60-70 skill range on most skill fairly easily solo with some time and dedication.

 

people that do not have massive breeding operations ( there were a few of these in dif areas of the game. cistacista wasnt the only one breeding using mulitple deeds there was a large bison opperation in cadence) are now able to put the work in to breed their own animals and if they wish sell them locally. this isn't a bad thing esp since carts and wagons let alone animals you ride are a very necessary part of the game. its bad for profit yes xD but competition is healthy. if mules are still the fastest thing ( and cant breed) that would be the new meta cash cow wouldn't it? Profit isnt gone just shifted.

 

personally I think the price crash is a good thing. It will either re balance or people will get tired of putting the effort into breeding and the price will rise some then flatten out to a new standard price point just like any other craftable in the market. This crash is also likely in part caused by people having options especially newer players or players that want to save for premium. esp since you can find ( probably to many)wild donkeys to breed vs horses and to a lesser extent hell horses bison. people are still going to pay out the nose for immortal or other rare trait or combos. but not every 4 trait horse on the server should be worth 2-5 silver ( depending on color). 60-70 skill items in the rest of the game are not that expensive or inaccessible and most everyone can get to that point with a little work until you start adding enchantments and runes which is more work and complicated to do solo. and that's basically the horseshoes/saddles at that point.

 

 

all this aside this is def kicking the crap out of the pvp breeding scene. which is def a worry.

 

 

edit: I am not happy with the current state of trait inheritance and color ( no matter what there is going to be people not happy about how something is or not changed and if thats me so be it) but its workable, functional and I can get a couple good draft and speed animals every few rounds of breeding which means they dont die before I get what I need to keep going  and honestly that's bare minimum what I desperately wanted after the feature update.

 

 

 

Edited November 1, 2021 by Yserin

[CistaCista 253]

6 hours ago, Yserin said:

A single player having the majority of sales across 3 maps with little competition

 

Nobody said that lol. I only said I have sold a lot of horses, so I have the experince to put forward the point I did:

 

Lots and lots of players are now making their own 4-speed and and 4-draft horses. No, they are not using donkeys on their carts. So I don't see a MECHANICS problem here really - keep breeding your best horses to get maxed out horses is working as intended.

 

And again I stress, that adding extra pvp traits on horses is another matter and outside of my experience really.

 

 

Edited November 1, 2021 by CistaCista

[Eobersig 1,005]

1 minute ago, CistaCista said:

Lots and lots of players are now making their own 4-speed and and 4-draft horses.

 

Sure, because it's easy. The problem is what you get at high skills.

 

4-draft horses needs 65 trait points, 4-speed horses need 55 trait points. The problem comes when you have higher AH skill than that because you get a bunch of crap random traits thrown in with your 4-speed or 4-draft horses. The concept of the devs wanting us to specialize on draft or speed is all fine, however: one cannot specialize on draft or speed because there are not enough draft or speed traits to fill the trait point pool at high AH skill.

[Carrasco 7]

An alternative fix for AH could be to make it more similar to archery, higher skill = higher precision. 

 

At 90 or even 95 skill you get to pick the common traits you want to pass on up to the amount of skill points you have, with random also being an option.   If you choose random as a trait possibility this will increase the chances of rare traits to appear as well as common traits not present in the parents and/or common traits you didn't hard select.  In order to select the random trait option you will have to allow for twenty trait points, the maximum a trait can cost.  So say you have 95 AH skill and you want to have 2 random trait rolls on a particular breeding, you will select up to 55 points of traits you want to hard pass down to allow for 40 points of random.  Rare traits could still appear if you do not select a random trait since they have zero trait point cost but the odds would be worse.

Edited November 1, 2021 by Carrasco

[Blacklotus 276]

I've been having decent luck with output traits passing down on my sheep but new breeded sheep have draft or speed traits which they really can't even use.

[Finnn 3,303]

higher skill to get better results makes sense..

 

we could use some way to target traits... unless you get some god tier rng to start with draft bison.. it's near impossible to get out of the speed trait transfer hell from old 5speeds, all new ones are fsb/bsb filler

 

had a rare speed trait on 1speed hellhorse.. completely useless.. rare traits as they come are mostly bull**** "luck", instead of better system with chance to get a rare trait paired to 4draft or 4speed and a roll for 2nd rare trait.. maybe, chances based off skill and creature traits(?) 

 

we can hardly try to produce max points of speed and draft traits to 'create old 5speeds' or otherwise hybrid that is both good for carts/wagons also riding so cart horses could be useful at rifts as temporary mount..(that is long dead usability now because of the trait separation and utility)

 

if old-school skin colors giving speed now give only speed, why is there no draft alternative? does it work for both speed bonus and draft speed while pulling or it's now only favoring the one trait branch

 

horses are useless now, 4speeds or 4x drafts.. it's all about the donkeys and mules with weight and pulling bonus, I haven't seen a draft bison to say if that's also out of the business in favor of the 2 new jipsy creatures...

 

it's interesting time.. when end-game offers no special kind of mounts or epic pullers.. but poor jipsy cattle as best mounts...

 

wonder if any tests were done to compare and 'balance' what we have as option as mounts for early and late game.. I am not a fan of what endgame offers or forces players to use atm(personally really not a fan of donkeys/mules)

[CistaCista 253]

11 hours ago, Eobersig said:

 

Sure, because it's easy. The problem is what you get at high skills.

 

4-draft horses needs 65 trait points, 4-speed horses need 55 trait points. The problem comes when you have higher AH skill than that because you get a bunch of crap random traits thrown in with your 4-speed or 4-draft horses. The concept of the devs wanting us to specialize on draft or speed is all fine, however: one cannot specialize on draft or speed because there are not enough draft or speed traits to fill the trait point pool at high AH skill.

 

I support what you are stating here.

 

I only posted what I did because the OP gave an example of failure to pass the core traits. And he said:

"In fact, this is now the normal for me. The draft traits aren't passing on"

[MrKettle 121]

You would have to completely rework AH for it to be skill based over 80, there is almost zero reason to ever level it above 80 - not to mention you would actually hurt all of us who predominantly make our "wurm living" off selling animals because we would all have to scramble to level 20 levels at the last minute.  

 

But for real I am getting half draft traits and random neutral traits on my speed horses now because of this switch, horses that were consistently having 4 speed traits are now getting random draft traits on their foals and it does seem a little worse than before.

[ChampagneDragon 971]

7 hours ago, CistaCista said:

 

I support what you are stating here.

 

I only posted what I did because the OP gave an example of failure to pass the core traits. And he said:

"In fact, this is now the normal for me. The draft traits aren't passing on"

Ok. on the day I posted this I had 6 baby bison born. All parents perfectly matched.. NOT ONE carried all four draft traits, despite all parents being 4draft +1. Since then I have had another 8 baby bison born and TWO have been 4d.. and the fifth misc trait was not the USH that the parents carry, but some random misc trait.

 

Just because YOU are having different results (With much lower AH I might add) does not make what I said untrue. 

 

And I am talking about my bison, not horses. My draft and speed horse breeding is on hold atm, since there is no market for speed, and I'm waiting on all my 4D ponies to be old enough to breed for next round.

[Josso 156]

I too have been getting plenty of offspring where misc becomes the dominant trait.

If they ever made it so that each misc traits adds a 5% extra chance for traits to be active at any given moment, then it would reward high AH skill without unbalancing the status quo in any major way.

[Finnn 3,303]

12 hours ago, MrKettle said:

You would have to completely rework AH for it to be skill based over 80, there is almost zero reason to ever level it above 80 - not to mention you would actually hurt all of us who predominantly make our "wurm living" off selling animals because we would all have to scramble to level 20 levels at the last minute.  

 

But for real I am getting half draft traits and random neutral traits on my speed horses now because of this switch, horses that were consistently having 4 speed traits are now getting random draft traits on their foals and it does seem a little worse than before.

are you breeding speed + draft horses.. then it's normal.. if not submit bug report with both parents and new foals as screenshots, afaik nobody else complains with mismatched traits when breeding same traits

 

some rng is normal.. old system wasnt 100% cloning, there was some trash, at least I had 50% junk foals, it's why the system was .... you needed a huge herd to compensate the big rng and and big pregnancy timers, growth time, etc..

 

new system adopted and expanded some of the mess.. we have more traits and zero control over the wider lottery with extra number of options added to it.. same problems requiring huge herds.. and there's that new double trouble with speed/drafts.. and no hybrid.. so you have to double the herd or specialize at just one kind... most horses have trait to eat less, etc.. yet you need more horses and deed creature ratio remains the same.. more and more issues to deal with.. 

[MrKettle 121]

53 minutes ago, Finnn said:

are you breeding speed + draft horses.. then it's normal.. if not submit bug report with both parents and new foals as screenshots, afaik nobody else complains with mismatched traits when breeding same traits

 

some rng is normal.. old system wasnt 100% cloning, there was some trash, at least I had 50% junk foals, it's why the system was .... you needed a huge herd to compensate the big rng and and big pregnancy timers, growth time, etc..

 

new system adopted and expanded some of the mess.. we have more traits and zero control over the wider lottery with extra number of options added to it.. same problems requiring huge herds.. and there's that new double trouble with speed/drafts.. and no hybrid.. so you have to double the herd or specialize at just one kind... most horses have trait to eat less, etc.. yet you need more horses and deed creature ratio remains the same.. more and more issues to deal with.. 

I have over 70 AH and I have been breeding my 4 drafts with 4 drafts and 4 speeds with 4 speeds and getting really weird random traits, my one 4 x 4 speed came out with 1 speed trait, 2 draft traits and a bunch of combat traits that neither of the parents had idk why.  The foals from my legacy 5 speed I would understand this but these are from new horses not my old ones.  I have more than enough horses to like mix with but I would prefer I don't have to because it just creates these weird frankenstein foals.  I am going to try to breed my drafts with my speeds and my speeds with my drafts tomorrow and see what happens.

[Fairyshine 3,183]

It is a mess. Did anyone ask real players for any input? Please address it urgently. We need more control over which traits are preferred, even if our preference is a hybrid. 

[CistaCista 253]

15 hours ago, ChampagneDragon said:

Just because YOU are having different results (With much lower AH I might add) does not make what I said untrue. 

 

Yea that's why I stated my AH. Could be there really is a greater disadvantage now for AH skill over 70-80.

[ChampagneDragon 971]

My ONE not perfectly matched breeding pair... reason is probably obvious:

 

 

 

And here's their most recent baby:

 

[Homestead 324]

I've noted that, too, when breeding males with rare traits.

 

I don't have an exact count, but well over 50 matings, maybe as many as 75 and the male has not passed on his rare trait once.

 

Mostly I get foals with a bunch of misc traits.  Very few have not been culled/killed. When a foal did have 'a' rare trait, it was "It seems immortal."

[Finnn 3,303]

so.... is that confirmation that 2x rare traited parents generate new rare for sure... or unbelievable coincidence rng?

[MrKettle 121]

10 minutes ago, Finnn said:

so.... is that confirmation that 2x rare traited parents generate new rare for sure... or unbelievable coincidence rng?

 

I really hope its just incredible rng because that would just make rare traits almost useless at that point, everyone would have them all in like a month

[Homestead 324]

12 minutes ago, Finnn said:

so.... is that confirmation that 2x rare traited parents generate new rare for sure... or unbelievable coincidence rng?

 

I'm going with coincidence.

 

The number of mating I had to get one rare is consistent with just RNG chance.

 

My belief is that rare traits simply do not get inherited.

 

And that - in coding that, they somehow made it less likely to pass on ANY traits from the father, hence we get so many miscellaneous traits in foals from those matings.