Keenan

Map Dumps: PvP Delay?

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Hi all.

 

We're looking at doing map dumps again, and this question keeps cropping up. In the past, I've varied the delay between the map data and release by about 30 days. I'm wondering what you, the PvP community, thinks though?

 

The idea is to prevent fresh deeds from being outed and pummeled before they're defensible.

 

So what delay would you all prefer?

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forced deed chaining and basic knowledge of the map and where a good deed location would go makes it pretty obvious in most cases, but nothing wrong with a 30 day delay

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can we just get clean map dumps from before northern freedom opened? that would be the best.

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3 minutes ago, Tpikol said:

can we just get clean map dumps from before northern freedom opened? that would be the best.

Would absolutely love to see clean dumps as well. I believe Retro even said it was possible a few months back

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I'll have more news on map dumps soon. :)

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30-60 days is plenty to hurry up your projects

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None, preferably.  Let the kingdoms track deeds and leave the fog of war intact.  Let the intelligence agents of each kingdom do their work.

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What does this have to do with non pvp map dumps though? Why aren't they released more often? 

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31 minutes ago, atazs said:

What does this have to do with non pvp map dumps though? Why aren't they released more often? 

 

Mostly because the process isn't automated yet. That's a goal I have for the near/medium-range future. One of the main blockers for automation is that I want to get away from using Google Drive to host the maps.

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Posted (edited)

+1 -- Cant speak for Chaos, but 30 days is plenty of time to build and secure a deed on defiance. Plus players have the added security of building on the starter islands.

Edited by DADLER

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Thing is, I doubt it will make a difference.  Those who leave their deeds know where the good spots are, and can check them any time.  Those who don't it won't really make much of a difference to as there is always +1 more thing to do.  

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14 hours ago, Nomadikhan said:

None, preferably.  Let the kingdoms track deeds and leave the fog of war intact.  Let the intelligence agents of each kingdom do their work.

 

This is an interesting point, though I'm curious how popular it is with folks on Defiance?

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Posted (edited)
13 hours ago, Keenan said:

 

Mostly because the process isn't automated yet. That's a goal I have for the near/medium-range future. One of the main blockers for automation is that I want to get away from using Google Drive to host the maps.

unfortunately, unless you have your own home server,  any other cloud hosting service worth their salt is going to be similar to google. Not that i blame you much, google has too much of our stuff as it is.

 

on the subject of dumps, Spacy is very correct there. yearly dumps is fine for PvE, and Chaos being on the same cycle as other PvP maps just makes sense.

Edited by Tomatoes
finished the sentence

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Posted (edited)

I agree to Nomadikhan's message.

you should have to go find and the deeds and get info instead of having it all public.

because if you show their deeds on a public map it means enemies don't have to explore the map to find it, which isn't good for anyone in my opinion because people are currently finding it hard to stay alive on Defiance as is...

 

its fine for PvE but for PvP i think it would just destroy it for people trying to stay alive and not be found. because im pretty sure there is some people trying to hide and live a somewhat peaceful life for a while helping thier friends and prepare for future fights as they are not ready.

 

and as everyone knows this game is Hella slow lol.

Edited by Shinso
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Posted (edited)
47 minutes ago, Shinso said:

I agree to Nomadikhan's message.

you should have to go find and the deeds and get info instead of having it all public.

 

 

@Keenan

when I played chaos many years ago every kingdom had its own custom map software that tracked deeds, towers, each front of war, etc.

 

Granted within a month after the map is put out some parts will be outdated but overall I say don’t release pvp maps ever outside of the original.  There are mechanics ingame to find people and settlements and I believe that will get wurm pvp back to its true spirit in that dept.  fog of war will protect new players too, if someone wants to find you it was always my experience they will.

 

further, I say to heck with popularity, it would be a fair choice for the future of pvp In general.

Edited by Nomadikhan

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47 minutes ago, Shinso said:

I agree to Nomadikhan's message.

you should have to go find and the deeds and get info instead of having it all public.

because if you show their deeds on a public map it means enemies don't have to explore the map to find it, which isn't good for anyone in my opinion because people are currently finding it hard to stay alive on Defiance as is...

 

its fine for PvE but for PvP i think it would just destroy it for people trying to stay alive and not be found. because im pretty sure there is some people trying to hide and live a somewhat peaceful life for a while helping thier friends and prepare for future fights as they are not ready.

 

and as everyone knows this game is Hella slow lol.


I believe the starter islands were intended for the people trying to hide and live a peaceful life.  
 

3 minutes ago, Nomadikhan said:

 

 

@Keenan

when I played chaos many years ago every kingdom had its own custom map software that tracked deeds, towers, each front of war, etc.

 

Granted within a month after the map is put out some people ya will be outdated but overall I say don’t release pvp maps ever outside of the original.  There are mechanics ingame to find people and settlements and I believe that will get wurm pvp back to its true spirit in that dept.

 

do you play on defiance?

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1 minute ago, DADLER said:


I believe the starter islands were intended for the people trying to hide and live a peaceful life.  
 

 

do you play on defiance?

Do you play on chaos?  I wish they’d never released dumps for any pvp server.  Understandably I may be in the minority here.

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3 minutes ago, Nomadikhan said:

 

 

@Keenan

when I played chaos many years ago every kingdom had its own custom map software that tracked deeds, towers, each front of war, etc.

 

Granted within a month after the map is put out some people ya will be outdated but overall I say don’t release pvp maps ever outside of the original.  There are mechanics ingame to find people and settlements and I believe that will get wurm pvp back to its true spirit in that dept.

i agree however there needs to be a middle ground of sorts - Ingame location finding uses the same skills as RL, of which i have limited ability with. without GPS im lost. Practice helps, but only to a limited extent. having a singular server setup so one can actually practice that skill for PvP would be nice....hence why i like chaos.

 

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Posted (edited)
6 minutes ago, DADLER said:

I believe the starter islands were intended for the people trying to hide and live a peaceful life. 

no offence or anything but doesnt do anything about JK, you guys would raid people anyways.

but yes i do agree that is what starter is for.

 

which raiding people on starter is pretty sad.

this reply does not count Heartless... he,s fair game. :D

Edited by Shinso

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Posted (edited)
9 minutes ago, Shinso said:

no offence are anything but doesnt do anything about JK, you guys would raid people anyways.

but yes i do agree that is what starter is for.

 

this reply does not count Heartless... he,s fair game. :D

 

I was trying to avoid bringing up the current PVP state of Defiance as it will it undoubtedly derail this discussion which brings up the next point:

 

2 hours ago, Keenan said:

 

This is an interesting point, though I'm curious how popular it is with folks on Defiance?

 

I think most Defiance players would agree to doing a map dump except for a loud and vocal minority, which consists of players who don't play on Defiance, or who are in very small groups that are probably biting off more than they can chew, and SHOULD be taking advantage of the added starter island security.  It would also give new players a general idea of areas to avoid if they know there is/was some large deed there.

Edited by DADLER

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Posted (edited)

As I've never seen a PvP map dump, I don't know precisely what it would compromise to have accurate satellite footage of the entire map, even 30 days out of date.

 

Trying to be fair here, so let's pretend I could actually be a threat to my enemies:

 

If people feared me, I'm sure none of them would want me knowing where their base was. Certainly not its location, size and layout pixel-perfect. What's the point of all the mechanics to keep people at a distance where they can't get a good look at what they're up against, if the Devs supply that information to everyone?

 

A lot of deeds are abandoned soon after they are discovered, because nothing can actually stop an enemy from razing a deed, except the idea that doing so is more boring than destroying every enemy tower on the map just for the sake of something to do.

 

That said, if people actually behaved as they accused each other of behaving, there wouldn't be anyone playing on any PvP server - which a lot of veterans who no longer play the game do claim is true, because compared to the numbers there used to be, there aren't any players on PvP servers.

 

I do know that to build something that would actually be a challenge to veteran PvPers to raid, let alone worthwhile for them to do so, and not just an empty shell, takes a damn sight longer than 30 days with current population, since I was working on a major deed for months and it still wasn't even half complete when it was raided.

 

So if the development team want to limit future PvP by anyone but the dominant Kingdom on a server, to knocking over pathetic sandcastles that can be built and must be abandoned in less than 30 days - bearing in mind that Wurm is VERY SLOW to terraform and develop without being able to buy tons of resources from other players who want to earn silver as their gamestyle - go ahead with PvP map-dumps with a 30 day delay.

 

Guarantees that I'll never be leaving starter island even to build a tower in the next 2-3 years though. Half the point of a large map is how hard it is for enemy to find you. Starter Island will become as crowded as PvE, before there will be enough wannabe-PvPers to guard a construction site on mainland from the dominant-Kingdom.

 

[Edit: Personally, I'd say if you want to do PvP map-dumps, allow us to drop deed tokens underground, and not have it show up above-ground to enemy when they blunder onto deed. 😛 ]

 

Not my decision though.

Edited by Drayka

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1 hour ago, Shinso said:

its fine for PvE but for PvP i think it would just destroy it for people trying to stay alive and not be found. because im pretty sure there is some people trying to hide and live a somewhat peaceful life for a while helping thier friends and prepare for future fights as they are not ready.

 

Is this not what PvE is for?

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43 minutes ago, Pnutp said:

 

Is this not what PvE is for?

No items transfer from PvE to PvP on Defiance. This isn't Chaos.

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1 minute ago, Drayka said:

No items transfer from PvE to PvP on Defiance. This isn't Chaos.

I know this, but hiding and looking for a peaceful life is PvE right?

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