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Zera

Branded & Their Perms

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I swear it used to be the case that Branded an animal instantly Defaulted to "Locked".

This meant that if your animal was branded, regardless of where it was located it could not be accessed in any way shape or form. A brand meant the animal is locked, no leading, no riding, no inventory access by anyone who wasn't a member of the deed they were branded to.

 

In the last year, after returning to Wurm Online I've learned that Branding doesn't work that way at all!

I've had a Branded horse lead off my deed and clear across the Harmony map onto someone else's deed, equipment and all. Support at the time basically shrugged at me and said "Deed permissions to Lead over-rode Branding" and I wasn't getting my horse back, despite the Branding on it.

 

Based on this information, I was specifically granted leading permissions on a friends Deed to come and "adopt" some of their unwanted Horses off Deed and brought them home.


It wasn't until I reached my own Deed that I realized 3/4 of these horses were branded. I've confirmed that I've been able to lead these animals even after I've stopped leading them on my own deed.
I cannot ride them, but I can hitch them to my wagon/carts.
No horse has individual permission settings "per animal" set as frankly it's not something we've ever bothered with over the years. Since it used to be that Branded = Locked.

  • Prior to this, they had brought me 4 horses (all of which were still branded, but I was not given deed specific leading permissions to their deed or those animals) and I was able to lead and hitch them just fine. It wasn't until I went to brand them myself that I learned they were still branded to my friend's deed. So the first set of animals I was given absolutely no rights to leading these animals.

 

I've been told recently that individual settings per creature is needed to prevent animals walking off, despite being branded on a Deed with lead permissions.
Now I haven't tested this yet, as I'll have to wait for my friend to log back online but I'm honestly skeptical if that's the case. Since I've also been told "Deed permissions over-ride branding".
So logically speaking, Branded Perms on the "per animal" would be over-ridden by Deed's "Lead" permission.

 

So which is it?
Branding is a Lock?
Deed Permissions over-ride Branding Permissions (except if it's Brand Permission to specifically say "No") ?

 

Ultimately the Branded "lock" system being incredibly inconsistent with every other lock in the game is incredibly unclear and frustrating.

If this is the case here, then why don't Pickup Deed permissions over-ride the item pickup in buildings?

Why on my own Deed I cannot pickup, move or otherwise alter an item that has been planted/secured, despite being the Mayor of the Deed?

 

So ultimately, is Branding basically "Apply an unlocked lock to my animal" and we're still required to set actual permissions on the Animal after branding? To prevent even wild, other deed or Deeds with lead perms, to prevent theft?

And why is this the case, when applying a lock to ANYTHING else doesn't work this way? Since Locked is Locked for everything else.

 

Why was this changed to work this way?

Why is Branding no longer considered "Auto Locked" from non-deed mates?

Why has the decision been made to keep it this way, and why was it thought it was a good idea? 🤦‍♀️

Edited by Zera
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I just did some testing on my deed. With a character that does not have permissions on the deed or horses, is unable to lead the animal. 

 

With default permissions on the branded horse but Lead enabled for non-citizens, the alt can lead the animal, but when trying to ride it says you don't have permissions to embark as driver.

With Everyone - Deny All on the horse, but Lead enabled for non-citizens on deed, they are not able to lead the animal. 

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1 minute ago, fencejumper said:

I just did some testing on my deed. With a character that does not have permissions on the deed or horses, is unable to lead the animal. 

 

With default permissions on the branded horse but Lead enabled for non-citizens, the alt can lead the animal, but when trying to ride it says you don't have permissions to embark as driver.

With Everyone - Deny All on the horse, but Lead enabled for non-citizens on deed, they are not able to lead the animal. 

Okay, and that's great.
But why is the Brand defaulting to "Unlocked" on Deeds with Leading perms?
Isn't the point of Branding to "Lock" a creature, no different than applying a lock to a Chest or Building Door. 🤷‍♀️

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This was also something confusing to me becuase I had cared for horses taken off my perimeter in the past and people told me “you don’t own the horse with cared for, you own it with branded” and now that seems not true anymore ? 
 

also if you give someone a key to a hitching post on your deed, they can unhitch and lead the animal off deed with deed permissions set to disabled for lead non citizen. So even if you have no lead on, there are still instances where that doesn’t matter either 
 

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I truly feel that the permissions access should result in the following pattern:

  1. Branding / Structure Lock
  2. Deed Permission

I've yet to do any interactions with a hitching post, but I assume it's no different than say a Cart or a Wagon. So granting someone access to said Cart or Wagon to access the animals on said Cart/Structure would allow the release of said animals from said system.

However leading the animal after the fact depends FIRST on whether or not the animal is branded (which should go back to defaulting to LOCKED), THEN whether or not the Deed allows leading of non-branded (or otherwise not permission granted based on Branding) animals.

 

Branding is a Lock. Branding is Ownership.

Why is Branding otherwise in many instances appear to not work this way in any shape or form..

 

The above order works for everything else in game. Buildings, Carts/Ships, Chests. Why are Animals the exception to the rule?

 

What's more, the Permissions system on Animals never specifically states "Can Lead".
The only options available are "Manage", "Ride", "Equipment" or "Deny All".

Edited by Zera
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4 hours ago, Zera said:

Okay, and that's great.
But why is the Brand defaulting to "Unlocked" on Deeds with Leading perms?
Isn't the point of Branding to "Lock" a creature, no different than applying a lock to a Chest or Building Door. 🤷‍♀️

 

It's likely an issue with permission stacking, there are some weirdness with houses as well. I suspect that being able to lead it dispite animal permissions isn't working as intended, but a dev will need to look into that and see what's going on with it. I was just mentioning behavior as I saw it.

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I submitted this problem as a bug to the forums either end of last year or early this year at a CA's request; though I can't link to it as it seems the thread has now been removed (EDIT: see linked post in Shydow's comment below). Essentially someone did the same thing to me - took my cared for, branded and geared horse across the server hitched to a wagon. That was the end of my self-service horse + hellie market because having lead permissions enabled made all of my animals vulnerable if left outside of a locked pen. I share your frustration.

Edited by crimsonearth

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Ah hah, thanks for finding it Shydow. I ran a search on my username which showed none of my bug posts and it had vanished from my followed content too so I assumed old bug reports had been tidied up/merged away.

Edited by crimsonearth

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Well that's super comforting to know that this has been a thing since 2017 and apparently there must be no intention to change it. 🤦‍♀️

 

And it was an intended change?

  

 

Would still like to know who and why they thought this was a great idea.

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Also reported in:

 

It´s counter-intuitive, and I do believe it should be looked at.

 

Meanwhile, it may be a little less confusing if you look at it this way: lead deed permission allows leading of ¨animals that belong to the deed¨. Who are all the animals that belong to the deed? Those unbranded, present physically on deed land, and those branded on that deed, present anywhere on the server. I probably don´t have a proof, but I think that was the idea underlying the current behavior.

 

To prevent leading of branded animals, we can:

- not allow ¨lead¨ on deed (but there are many reasons why lead for our alliances etc and specially citizens is necessary)

- add ourselves by name to our favorite branded horses, and apply ¨deny all¨ for anyone else. Note that it would deny it then even to ¨officers¨ of the deed, those with manage allowed objects permission.

 

I think devs should fix it, it would avoid a lot of accidents. A more natural behavior is to prevent leading any branded horse as long as you don´t also have permission to ride it. That can come from permissions on the horse, or from manage allowed objects, and, additionally, should probably be made available to the citizen roles with ¨branding¨ permission.

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