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Keenan

Development Update 2021-09-22

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3 minutes ago, Darnok said:

 you can be attacked at any time 

On the other hand - you can attack at any time ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Fair play.

 

6 minutes ago, Darnok said:

but they cannot kill me or rob me

I think most ppl on freedom are making too much drama around death in PVP and deed raid. Drop your most valueable stuff on toon if you don't want to lose it. Other things can be recreated and rebuilt, skills could be re-grinded with [x3] modifier.

Noone will be draining 10k of dirt, mortar and cabbage from raided deed, lol.

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2 minutes ago, vasisuelle said:

I think most ppl on freedom are making too much drama around death in PVP and deed raid. Drop your most valueable stuff on toon if you don't want to lose it.

 

It's just cheating. Why play PvP if you do something like that?

If PvP players do this, they are fooling themselves because they don't want to play PvP game 🙂

 

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5 hours ago, CreZ said:

Thoughts on what it woudl be like if Defiance and Epic were linked for boat travel? 

I would call that a good troll atm, and even an idea for a future when SFI and NFI are connected.

Honestly: Connecting Epic and Defiance now would mean connection of SFI and NFI banks. Without connecting NFI and SFI that does not make sense.

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6 minutes ago, Ekcin said:

I would call that a good troll atm, and even an idea for a future when SFI and NFI are connected.

Honestly: Connecting Epic and Defiance now would mean connection of SFI and NFI banks. Without connecting NFI and SFI that does not make sense.

Good point, but on further consideration, why not? Whats the harm of sharing a gold pool? Its not like it would introduce skill or item leaks into their respective "economies" to dilute or contend. If people wanted to trade coin between the clusters that way does it impose harm to the players on either side? The game company? It isn't like you cant trade SFI coin for NFI coin now you just have to go through a player with a presence on both sides instead of somehow conducting an exchange in an alternate dimension full of angry players with sticks and swords who want to rob you while you try.

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11 hours ago, Tomatoes said:

Epic has only ONE thing that even interests people, that is the 2x skill gains

<sigh>  You specifically quoted me, where I specifically said I would love to explore Epic.  I care nothing for skill gains beyond possible access to crafting that is skill-gated and even at that the care factor is very low.

 

Epic is, as I understand it, the dedicated PvP cluster.  This shapes a lot of the mechanics of the cluster, but also the architecture and the terraforming (which on Epic more than Freedom, if I understand it correctly, terraforming and architecture a somewhat blended).  This to me makes it a very interesting place and I would like to do what I do, and go poking into nooks here and there and maybe a cranny or two.  That I might be attacked by something other than the wildlife is definitely a consideration, but by no means a disincentive.

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49 minutes ago, CreZ said:

Good point, but on further consideration, why not? Whats the harm of sharing a gold pool? Its not like it would introduce skill or item leaks into their respective "economies" to dilute or contend. If people wanted to trade coin between the clusters that way does it impose harm to the players on either side? The game company? It isn't like you cant trade SFI coin for NFI coin now you just have to go through a player with a presence on both sides instead of somehow conducting an exchange in an alternate dimension full of angry players with sticks and swords who want to rob you while you try.

Admittedly, it would not kill instantly neither NFI nor SFI "economy", and might harm the company only insignificantly even if (which certainly would) new metas would emerge.

 

Yet it would be a half assed "solution" causing issues in code as well. Recall Keenan's descriptions of skill transfer woes. Prematurely implementing shortcuts might spell new disaster and further useless workload on the dev team.

 

Edit: Connecting Epic and Defiance, fine, possibly. But after a merge, not before.

Edited by Ekcin

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11 hours ago, Darnok said:

If PvP players do this, they are fooling themselves because they don't want to play PvP game

Nice twist, lol. You was scared of robbery and I gave you solution. 

Why do you apply that to pvp players?

 

 

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26 minutes ago, vasisuelle said:

Nice twist, lol. You was scared of robbery and I gave you solution. 

Why do you apply that to pvp players?

 

 

 

So PvP players do not use alts to protect their most valuable items and agree to lose everything when they lose raid?

If they do use alts then I don't understand what is the point of PvP with rules so harsh that nobody wants to accept them and is looking for opportunities to avoid consequences of failure?

 

 

Edited by Darnok

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1 hour ago, Darnok said:

 

So PvP players do not use alts to protect their most valuable items and agree to lose everything when they lose raid?

If they do use alts then I don't understand what is the point of PvP with rules so harsh that nobody wants to accept them and is looking for opportunities to avoid consequences of failure?

 

 

I propose to end this demagogy. Many men - many minds, and more and still more cases when players behave differently. Stay on freedom if you like.

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Do not let yourself being trolled. This is the thread about development update, and Darnok's ravings and trollings are completely off topic here. I hope the forum admins step in and do their "evil censorship" aka enforcement of forum rules. If you are masochistic enough to "discuss" with endlessly monologuing Darnok kindly create a thread in Town Square where we can ignore it.

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On 9/26/2021 at 6:26 AM, kochinac said:

I tend to agree with that statetment that Epic and  freedom should be 2 diferent playgrounds for 2 sorts of people who wouldn't have need to go to the other side. But there is apparently reason why freedom is usual playground for most and epic is not. there is a reason why jackal/challenge  works and epic don't.

Pushing epic to still be someones usual just becase of exclusive content will again probably result in failure while rebranding it to something else might have success... I think "that mentality" comes mostly from exclusive content on other side.

Problem with phraze adding initiative is that i don't think you can add it outside of "that mentality" otherwise one will always be dominant playground and the other will be redundant. For freedom is known what sort of audience it suits, maybe define audience to which epic suits and freedom doesn't(people who want pvp with reset periods, faster grind and jump into endgame, people who wouldnt play wurm on freedom anyway) and market the hell out of it to them, without need for any initiative because thats designed to their need and freedom isn't, but also without people on freedom feeling left out. Because if you do something like for example(dumbest example i could think of now) add moonmetal veins on epic and not on freedom for initiative you will end up with bunch of people from freedom whining and asking to be able to get them back to freedom.

My point is, whatever you do, doing something exclusive in terms of content for Epic in order to give initiative is wrong aproach as it will give one side reason to feel left out.

 

 

I want to point out that NFI does not have access to epic at all. so there's a chunk of people right there that's already by design isolated from it as well. help chat gets kinda chaotic when people ask questions and NFI people have to keep reminding them we dont have choas or epic. Often with angry people on both sides because they are right and the other person is not getting that there are exceptions. I think this will get worse as things get more complicated xD

 

how do you incentivized epic without basically turning it into choas?

^ ignoring that

 

how do you incentivize people to play on epic when our population over all is small enough that people moving will make the people staying feel isolated? this would need addressed too. This would need to be part of the solution.

 

my only contribution on the actual how to get people playing there for reasonable amount of hours to the point that they want to stay full time :

 

do a monthly skin earned exclusivly from epic that they can transfer or buy from any token assuming you can get the item database to play nice. except instead of weapon/tools maybe make it animal renaming tags and/or runes to apply to horses/sheep to get specific colors instead of weapon skins. Tie things like the deed contest to epic instead of keeping it isolated. Maybe have contests for wagon skins instead of deed layouts reward points that can be spent so people can target something they want but make it apply able to any cluster that has/had access to epic. ( rip NFI ) make them more points for common to rare for the animals if you need to.

 

if you don't do the skill transfer then make the skill gain work in favor of being worth staying its a convenience set incentives that take advantage of that convience.

 

use the mission system this is such an under utilized tool! Do more targeted missions maybe one extra on top of the normal ones with the current rewards. Have it reward points similar to premium rewards but with dif rewards.Have that extra mission be like a 3 part series each harder then the last scale rewards with how far the server as a whole gets so everyone has a chance to participate not just the established players. have them reset monthly with different or even the same objective- something.help get people onto epic thats the hard part, getting them there. Having a goal to work towards every month or so will help keep them there lot of people have a hard time or see it as a hassle to travel that much they may stick around to the one they care the most about give people a reason to care about epic.  Do points similar to rift events so people can work towards things they can buy at their home tokens( wherever home token is epic deed or freedom). We know the PMK wagons are worth mint on freedom you could do the carts for the mission skin reward instead for epic rather then a graphic maybe just having it so it has a pattern? for example ( this is a joke example) give a skin that lets you have racing stripes. have like 6 skins and have them rotate if you dont want to keep designing them. you dont need jackal in its entirety you can use parts of that system that are not the skill transfer. Have the missions you work towards spawn the mobs/trees across the server in smallish quantities for the final stage completion let people use the crafting recipe's form jackal this way. I know its a pvp environment but sometimes you need goals that everyone can work on so if one side has more people its not tilted into their favor to the point the rest of the server are not bothering to try. Justify the rewards by the fact there is more risk since pvp is a thing.

 

this could work on non epic servers but the goal in this thread is to incentivize epic.

 

I cant remember is epic the one that has roaming valeri mobs? if not add them as spawns have the mission system work for you to have the server kill X amount to work towards the skins( or whatever reward) the mission system has the ability to be an awesome tool in this respect. Have a mission to collect so many body parts from farm animals or donkey's since they are taking over the world ( amount would need balanced) then have one for a fishing challenge ( fish x fish for low points then another mission for double the fish for moderate points ect... keep it generic fishing not specific types so the newer settlers can have a shot) have the gm's or CM's make an arena and hold a monthly public unique kills ( the items would remain on epic not transferable this idea is from the amount of people pointing out that the uniques usually outnumber the players on epic at this point.) even with rolls on the items that are not tied to being in local do a raffle after let players donate to it on top of any other rewards so it has some variety( this should be on all servers imo there are several WU servers that do this very well).

 

I think even one of those would go a long way to at least feeling like there is a reason to go, and monthly incentive to stay.

 

this is rambly and my coffee hasnt kicked in. so if this wasnt what you were looking for sorry.

 

there is going to be typos sorry.

Edited by Yserin
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@Yserin sadly we no longer have roaming, flying or crawling valrei mobs, apart from the odd, slightly sad, trapped in caves ones, those are now so rare I sometimes consider an Epic zoo,  but some have bad habits like dissolving horses, bashing walls or simply just ignoring walls at all. Gone are the days when you had to find a thin spot in the eagle spirit and drake spirit server border walls when crossing servers, that long white line that stretches as far as we could render, both ways could be terrifying.

 

We no longer have craters or cracks, or new peaks appearing on the servers after scenarios ended, we can’t ascend and become player gods anymore, or worship those who did in the past, in short, Epic is a pale shadow of it’s former self in those respects.

 

Don’t get me wrong, years of valrei event left Affliction in such a mess it had to be replaced with a larger and less cratered version than the Swiss cheese it was before it was replaced. Leaving that mechanism to continue on Serenity, Elevation and Desertion would have done much the same, though Desertion and Serenity still have the scars, they are not as damaged overall as Affliction. I actually like most of the terraforming additions, they’ve become old friends as I ride past them now, but they did wreck deeds and ruin mines and other projects.

 

As for uniques, well we have them all, often there are more uniques than players, and due to population we often can’t do much more than mark them, and avoid or outrun them, or gathering a group of freedom players and loaning gear and horses to try to kill a few of the more annoying ones. They make life for new players actually more dangerous than the rare encounters with enemies. 
 

As it is now, nothing gets off of Epic at all, not items, not skills, the only thing that transfers is what’s in /balances, since that’s linked to our accounts, which is shared with Freedom (SFI). And that’s fine with me, I play both clusters, and wasn’t to bothered by the skills reduction in the one off skills transfer, since my Epic main character had next to no skills on Freedom, even lower skills than Epic was far better than what he had on freedom before transfer, and to my mind, as fair as it was possible to get, I didn’t expect a 1:1 rate, that would have been unfair considering the greater skillgain on Epic.

 

In regard to NFI not being able to transfer to Epic, there are some technical reasons first of all, as one of those who had issues with Epic, Freedom and Jackal leaving me stranded and unable to log properly there are issues where multiple cluster transfers cause issues, as it is now I have Epic to Freedom, (SFI), and back again, adding NFI to that might cause complications where players and accounts get mixed up like mine did. It might be possible if characters couldn’t already transfer, but NFI already has a portal system, adding another is asking for issues.

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5 hours ago, Zenity said:

@Yserin

 

Thanks for the response :D. a lot of what I listed could be applied to either cluster or all of them. mission stuff specifically. I def get that the terraforming events would be disruptive at best from the old system :(. the RIP NFI was more me recognizing that it was probably not feasible honestly to link them I live on cadence I ended up here from independence because I had people on to talk to more often on cadence.  In the end its all a population issue only so many people to spread around the servers imo which is the real problem to solve the rest is more likely to rebalance if we can get the population up even a few hundred players global that stick around on the various servers. I dont have any more suggestions that wouldnt end up just driving off more then it brings in. even assuming changing anything even to just add something doesnt drive people off.

 

I liked hearing about all that from the people that played then involving the old valrei system I always found it interesting if not something I'd want to try to survive.

Edited by Yserin

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Wurm started as pvp, and became separate pve, pvp overtime.

 

The current server layout of pve-only with pvp separate was not how Wurm was originally designed.

 

Of the active maps, the epic layout is probably the closest to the original vision of having maps with full-on pvp (wild servers) and limited pvp (kingdom home servers). To take an example from another game, Eve Online with its interconnected server maps and varying degrees of NPC security enforcement/pvp.

 

Chaos itself is the oldest active map, the original wild server (after the 2007 server data loss/reset). I still think of it as "Wilds", not the newish name, Chaos.

 

The Independence map and Freedom server cluster were eventually created due to a majority of the playerbase wanting a pve-only environment with zero pvp.

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hm. most Wurm mob spawning is likely a bug. SCNR.

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