Darnok

Completely new and almost infinite rarity system

Recommended Posts

Player chooses max 3 normal items, something like care for, but for items, in addition items gain a different color, but have no additional properties other than charge bar/pool that player has to fill.

Items cannot be of same type.

 

Filling item bar is based on normal gameplay and performing actions with these items, but in order not to create a boring requirement, each item fills bars of all 3 selected items at same time, so this bar would rather represent a charge pool for all 3 items.

Player must perform several hundred actions each RL day to meet requirement and add some progress to bar/pool.

 

In the case of armor, it is enough to put it on so that every action, even spells cast by priests, will fill items pool.

 

When bar/pool is charged at 100%, 2 normal items are destroyed, but one becomes rare.

Charging items and creating 1 rare item will take minimum 1 Wurm a year per player whether player play 1 hour per day or 100 hours per week.

If you have charged your items to 40% and you have important things in real life, no problem, you lose nothing, even after few weeks when you return you will finish what you started. It will just take you a little longer to get rare reward.

 

Everyone will be rewarded and should be pleased, because reward will not be useless for anyone, unless he has chosen useless items himself.

 

Further, to get a supreme item player must choose 3 rare items, but filling items bar/pool may require more actions per 1 RL day and filling may take more than 1 Wurm year (although in some case this would not be necessary and 1 Wurm year would be enough for every rarity level).
Finally when bar is charged, 2 rare items will be destroyed and the third will turn to supreme.

 

A similar rule with fantastic, that is, we choose 3 supreme charge them, 2 are destroyed and 1 is turned into fantastic. Only higher requirements.

 

You want to go higher than fantastic? No problem.

Why game should not reward players who have played it for 5 or 10 years?

Such players with this system could reach a rarity level so high that there would only be few of such items on server. And for top 1 player there would be only 1 item of highest rarity.

This way game would never hit wall and a problem that players will flood market with items that are the strongest in game and there is nothing else to do, would never exist.

 

There could be skill requirement:

normal -> rare - available to everyone free and premium, but requires at least one skill at level 15.

rare -> supreme - requires at least one skill of level 50+

supreme -> fantastic - requires at least one skill of level 80+

OR

System can be secured in such a way that each character has to unlock a given rarity tier,  that means if I buy 3 supreme items as a new premium character, I will not be able to pick them for conversion "care for" and charge to get fantastic item until I first unlock lower levels of conversion normal-> rare and rare->supreme.

OR both.

 

The obvious problem with this idea is alts, in every MMO I hate alts, but I have no idea how to solve this problem with one simple feature, so instead I think game should be just more difficult for players who have an army of alts.

 

Difficulty may be that players will have to feed their characters. For several hundred years of its existence, only in the last 200 years, humanity has stopped worrying about lack of food, so maybe food production should be more difficult?

Maybe actions that fill items bar should use some resources, so average single-character player will have a slight problem and some challenge, but someone who tries to spam would already have huge problem with limited resources in his area?

In one suggestion, I suggested that bandits could attack deeds of active players, if there are many characters controlled by many players on deed, such an attack will not be a problem, but if someone is spamming alts, they usually do not have appropriate weapons on them and alts do not have skills to fight so for him such a bandit attack would be a problem.

 

Now a case where each rarity conversion tier could be 1 Wurm a year long, in case when we only have 3 tiers of rarity, it would of course be better to set higher time requirements for higher tiers.
But if there were more tiers of rarity than just rare, supreme and fanstastic, even if it only took 1 Wurm a year to receive an item for any tier, nothing terrible should happen in economy, because veterans would always race to reach the highest level.

 

Besides, such a system would be more resistant to alts trying to spam rare items, because creating 1 fantastic item would require:

3x supreme -> 1x fantastic = main character

9x rare -> 3x supreme = 3x alts

27x normal -> 9x rare = 9x alts

so a player wishing to receive 1 fantastic item every Wurm year would have to log in every RL day and perform several hundred actions for 13 alts.

For me, playing 13 characters is a bit of a lot, but okay maybe some people would be able to do it.

 

So game should give them another higher 4th tier of rarity:

3x fantastic -> 1x 4th tier = main character

9x supreme -> 3x fantastic = 3 alts

27x rare -> 9x supreme = 9 alts

81x normal -> 27x rare = 27 alts

 

Try to play 40 alts every day... not enough?

 

Fine then add 5th rarity tier and then I wish them good luck🙂

 

EDIT

I forgot to add that if you change number of alts to Wurm year (42 RL days), you get period that average player, playing as one character, will need to get an item at a given tier of rarity.

13 alts = 13 Wurm years for single character = 546 RL days to get your first fantastic item.

 

 

 

 

Edited by Darnok
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

i arent reading that!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah nope

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I mean, if something like this would be introduced (with the needed tuning), i guess i would be ok with the gameplay-effects and dynamics of it.

But... It has literally no justification or sense in terms of game immersion, sounds like basically another game, has way too many rules and conditions and it's generally a bit of a mess.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Darnok said:

The obvious problem with this idea is alts, in every MMO I hate alts, but I have no idea how to solve this problem with one simple feature

 

Disallow Moments of Inspiration for non-premium characters.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 minutes ago, Davih said:

I mean, if something like this would be introduced (with the needed tuning), i guess i would be ok with the gameplay-effects and dynamics of it.

But... It has literally no justification or sense in terms of game immersion, sounds like basically another game, has way too many rules and conditions and it's generally a bit of a mess.

 

You have choice of either have system with grind and large repetition count or a few extra rules that will allow you to play normally and create rare items at the same time.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Quite a good idea. Makes a interesting change to the rarity system. I like it 🙂

 

Most of the system seems like it would work in the background.

All that users need to see is that 3 cared for items have a progress bar towards an increase in rarity. 

 

The bar moves up as the user uses the tools/items in their daily wurm life.  A number counter for how many clicks or actions could be on the bar for that day or month.... Etc. 

 

Then when the bar reaches max level, you can combine them together for a chance at one of them increasing in rarity, while the other 2 get destroyed. 

 

It seems very random chance. More so a nice little extra then something to try and farm with alts. As your example showed. 

 

It would also be good for the bar to be turned on and off as well for people who don't want to see or use it. 

------------------

There is something like this on the wurm unlimited server I play.... Details below:

 

Rarities and smooshing:

 

Three new rarities above fantastic: Epic, Legendary and Unique. 

Each higher rarity gives the normal increased effects of rarity and items that are at least epic cannot be shattered via enchanting. 

Epic and Legendary rarities are available via normal rare rolls, but Unique is reserved for special rewards and Smooshing only. 

 

Smooshing allows you to combine two items of the same rarity for the chance of increasing the rarity of the target item. 

The chance to successfully increase rarity is determined by item qualities, if they are the same item, and if they are bulk items or not. 

Smooshing is only available to characters with KangaWU+

Edited by Zexos
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't think this is a good idea generally, I'm not opposed to a progressive/pitty system to get a rare, but why not take the bait. Here are a few potential pitfalls that I'd think need addressed:

 

  1. How do you intend to interact with 3 items, there is no way to currently do this.
  2. I think this is a bit too slow, you haven't defined the amount you'd have to use each tool but assuming you could do all 3 in 1 hour per day thats 42 hours of usage to get a rare. I'd expect you should be able to get a rare sweet spot imping in less time than this from my experience.
  3. I assume you are thinking people will combine 3 tools they use regularly but I doubt this is the case. I'd expect most people would make 3 of the same tool to guarantee the desired outcome. Does this seem like a good gameplay loop to you.
  4. This would add a lot of upward pressure on the price of popular rares, metallic liquid and imbues. Since you cannot choose which transfers you'd need to recast at each rarity when you got your new tool, this would certainly increase consumption of those things and enchants but also people would buy up more of the base rares which makes them less obtainable for other players, is this a desired result?
  5. How would you balance rarity scaling, if you were to add infinite scaling you could in theory create armor with 100% damage reduction and higher level rarities could devalue exceptionally high skills like mining with the imbue changes.
  6. It is a large system with lots of pieces that need tracked, I imagine this would take a lot of dev time, is this worth it?

I'd also add generally that bolting on "grr alts" to the suggestion, although somewhat relevant, is a whole other topic that is perhaps a little more intricate than you give credit to, bottom line is if the game is as slow as wurm and with restrictions like there are on priests, one way or another you will have alts. Making the game more tedious to play will not help this just increase the maintenance cost for alts, and put new players off sticking around. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, Skatyna said:

Bravo, @Darnok, what a suggestion again! 👏

 

this is truly a suggestion of all time

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Smooshing is hands down the best solution 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Any suggestion that is titled "Completely New [anything] System" has exactly two chances of implementation at this point.

 

Given that, this is (IMO) simply a creative outlet for Darnok's one-person brainstorm.  Not a judgment, just an evaluation.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

another big NOPE

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

no.. ty.. sounds like nonsense

you lost me at ~15-20% of the post

 

rather not farm items and waste my life to get a rare item

we have a terrible system already, requires the same effort waste hours and hours to get something out of it..

 

if we need something.. it's clever or better system

 

you're not providing solution to a problem, it's just another boring alternative

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, Zexos said:

 

Three new rarities above fantastic: Epic, Legendary and Unique. 

 

 

If there were more rarities, names would be least of problems, but these are good.

 

6 hours ago, Lethyria said:
  1. How do you intend to interact with 3 items, there is no way to currently do this.
  2. I think this is a bit too slow, you haven't defined the amount you'd have to use each tool but assuming you could do all 3 in 1 hour per day thats 42 hours of usage to get a rare. I'd expect you should be able to get a rare sweet spot imping in less time than this from my experience.
  3. I assume you are thinking people will combine 3 tools they use regularly but I doubt this is the case. I'd expect most people would make 3 of the same tool to guarantee the desired outcome. Does this seem like a good gameplay loop to you.
  4. This would add a lot of upward pressure on the price of popular rares, metallic liquid and imbues. Since you cannot choose which transfers you'd need to recast at each rarity when you got your new tool, this would certainly increase consumption of those things and enchants but also people would buy up more of the base rares which makes them less obtainable for other players, is this a desired result?
  5. How would you balance rarity scaling, if you were to add infinite scaling you could in theory create armor with 100% damage reduction and higher level rarities could devalue exceptionally high skills like mining with the imbue changes.
  6. It is a large system with lots of pieces that need tracked, I imagine this would take a lot of dev time, is this worth it?

 

1. ??? There should be charges pool for all 3 items, so you can select, for example, a ship, part of armor and tool. Using selected tool you can fill pool for all selected items. By wearing armor and performing actions with other tools or killing mobs you also fill pool. So even priests would be able to make their rare items by just casting spells while wearing part of "care for" armor.

 

2. It's a matter of balance and without information on how often an item appears in a given tier of rarity with current system I don't know is best answer.

It depends, if 3 rarity tiers are the maximum, then this period seems quite balanced to me, although maybe 546 RL days for 1 fantastic is too long and 365 RL days would be enough.

But if we could convince Devs and add more tiers of rarity, I would also agree that it's too long and the more tiers, the shorter time it should take to obtain rare item.

 

3. "Items cannot be of same type." - You shouldn't be able to choose 3 items of the same type, so for example 3 pickaxes will not work, but 1 pickaxe, 1 hatchet, 1 piece of armor would work as pickaxe and hatchet are tools, but they are different.

 

4. I guess this should create an economic loop between newbies and vets, as newbies would be delivering a lot of rare that veterans would need to make supreme and fanstastic. Newbies could earn their first money for deed not by making bricks, but by simply playing with items they think are useful or items that some veteran needs and told them to choose for "care for".

Yes, of course, priests would benefit too, as it would be safer to lose 2 common enchanted items, than to risk losing a rare. But such a system seems good to me, because if you want to own a rare weapon, you have to risk losing it.

 

5. It depends on how many tiers of rarity could ultimately exist in game.

If 3 tiers then nothing changes, if it were 6 tiers then maybe instead of +3% for each tier +2% better stats for each tier would probably be enough. With more tiers +1% stats per tier.

 

6. Well, I don't know, it's not for me to judge, but  most work would probably be required to create a charge bar/pool,  feature of transforming or destroying items is probably not a problem.

I think that rules that exist at the moment are more complex than this proposal.

Edited by Darnok
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I must say wow, you sure do have a lot of free time Darnok with all of these posts. Lol.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 minutes ago, Rukhal said:

I must say wow, you sure do have a lot of free time Darnok with all of these posts. Lol.

 

Some play with several characters at the same time, while others fill time differently waiting for finish of few actions in queue 🙂

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
22 hours ago, Thalorane said:

 

Disallow [...] non-premium characters.

 

I fixed this!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It'd be easier to just sacrifice some amount of Mind Logic, plus 3 items of the same type, to get a rare item of that type. Likewise to convert rares to a supreme, (at whatever higher cost — it's just a question of balance). 

Far easier to track, no need for tagging items or progress bars. same basic principle: a life of drudgery will eventually get you something shiny.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 hours ago, Sheffie said:

It'd be easier to just sacrifice some amount of Mind Logic, plus 3 items of the same type, to get a rare item of that type. Likewise to convert rares to a supreme, (at whatever higher cost — it's just a question of balance). 

Far easier to track, no need for tagging items or progress bars. same basic principle: a life of drudgery will eventually get you something shiny.

 

The time requirement is an important factor in this idea.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 9/24/2021 at 9:59 AM, Darnok said:

 

The time requirement is an important factor in this idea.

 

Where do you think the Mind Logic comes from?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, Sheffie said:

 

Where do you think the Mind Logic comes from?

 

The point is that player has to spend 30-60 minutes every day and play so that he can get rares and he is playing game normally, not spamming some extra functionality with alts.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now