Rework Rarity system before merging.

[Davih 1,340]

56 minutes ago, Finnn said:

TL;DR for now..

…so as I was skimming through the thread I can see one thing.. it's request to make spamming rare/+ items easier

Basically... no. Maybe you should read and not skim at least the first post?


Anyway, your ideas aren't bad, if we want to change the rarity system... sure, this one sucks anyway. As i said earlier, anything works, but i would still keep the focus on making fantastics possible and maybe a new tier.

[Tor 523]

12 hours ago, Etherdrifter said:

Well, I'll add something in here - nerfing creation rares would nerf priests (its the only way we can get rare items since we can't imp).

 

You'd need to add something similar such as rare casts raring an item to balance it out if you wanted to make improvement and skill linkage a thing (and given how many people have probalby cheesed the channel grind before the nerf, would that really be viable?).

 

It nerfs the brute-forcing the rare throught the creation spawn, the thing that priests can't imp is another matter. Myself, i am more concerned that i can't dig as a Mag then i can't spam creation looking for a rare and it's pretty much the point why people wanna change this

 

Edited September 19, 2021 by Tor

[Archaed 2,280]

I don't see spam crafting being something that "benefits" priests. 

 

I see it benefiitting people who optimise armies of alts more than anything. 

 

Personally, the rework I'd like to see is one that rewards improving over creation, and drives demand. 

 

As a general idea, something that borrows heavily from other games (because it works) and simply have a set of bonuses (similar to runes) that rares can have. Rares randomly generate a bonus, supremes have two, fantastics have three. no clue on what specific bonus rares have until they're identified (hey, priest spell opportunity!) 

 

Certain bonuses might be better suited for tasks over others, and creates a demand for rares of specific bonuses. 

 

Something allowing rerolling of the bonuses could be useful too, as long as it took work and wasnt just "cast another spell on it" 

 

 

[Davih 1,340]

17 minutes ago, Archaed said:

I don't see spam crafting being something that "benefits" priests. 

 

I see it benefiitting people who optimise armies of alts more than anything. 

 

Personally, the rework I'd like to see is one that rewards improving over creation, and drives demand. 

 

As a general idea, something that borrows heavily from other games (because it works) and simply have a set of bonuses (similar to runes) that rares can have. Rares randomly generate a bonus, supremes have two, fantastics have three. no clue on what specific bonus rares have until they're identified (hey, priest spell opportunity!) 

 

Certain bonuses might be better suited for tasks over others, and creates a demand for rares of specific bonuses. 

 

Something allowing rerolling of the bonuses could be useful too, as long as it took work and wasnt just "cast another spell on it" 

 

 

Sure, but.... fantastics right now are basically impossible to obtain due to "off the chart" low chances. (the 1/10/6000+ ratio thingy)

Which was the point of the thread.

The idea behind Ether's post wasn't the fact that "spam crafting benefits priest"

The problem is that, being unable to improve anything, they can only make rares by creating,  that's why he gave the "cast into rarity idea" which doesn't seem half bad to me.

And please remember that nobody here proposed to introduce "spam crafting" as a way of making rares, it's simply the way the game has always been, and if i didn't make this thread, everybody would have gone forward simply not caring as it's been for several years.

Edited September 19, 2021 by Davih

[Archaed 2,280]

Think of it more as you highlighted a big issue with it that everyone knows. 

 

Spam crafting rares is an obvious abuse of a flawed system. 

 

A rework would be to address that flaw would it not? 

[Davih 1,340]

43 minutes ago, Archaed said:

Think of it more as you highlighted a big issue with it that everyone knows. 

 

Spam crafting rares is an obvious abuse of a flawed system. 

 

A rework would be to address that flaw would it not? 

If it's an obvious abuse of a flawed system my guess would be that it should have been fixed or at least contained in some way by now? lol...

My opinion is that rarity creation system is bad in general, but not particularly unbalanced if you consider that a lot of different activities can be multiaccounted.

If i made mortar with 10 alts together , and produced 15-30k every day to sell (totally possible, i promise), wouldn't that completly crash the market and be a huge issue at some point?

We're lucky(or maybe we are just kinda reasonable) that most multiaccounting efforts for silvers are put into rares and not into other things.

You want to rework that? Be my guest, but keep those things in mind, and this thread wasn't "really" about that, anyway.


Edit: If the main issue is that you got "clickbaited" by my title and tought this was only about a fix, i will apologize about that, i didn't do it on purpose.

 

Edited September 19, 2021 by Davih

[Mowglia 190]

It pains me to see so many amazing tools in a 20ql bag...

[Yserin 171]

On 9/18/2021 at 4:57 AM, Archaed said:

Honestly, sounds to me like a better idea is making rares from improving actions better and more reliant on skill would do a better job of combating rare farming. 

 

Because all this suggestion is is "add a new tier of rarity and make higher tier rares easier to spam create" 

my only issue with them touching the rarity system is the potential bugs and how likely they will not be fixed. I feel like otherwise the this suggestion is going in the right direction but I like the op's as well. I just cant ignore the last few updates.

 

right now we can at least get rares and supreme. any nerf of any account type no longer getting rares would just spill over to the premium crowd in my opinion. maybe if they invite the rarity spammers to spend a few hours a day for a couple weeks ont he test server with prem and non prem characters to make sure the code at least looks like it works.

 

+1 on the idea if they follow through on the tweek patch promises.

-10 in fear of them just breaking it and leaving it to rot if they dont.

Edited September 20, 2021 by Yserin

[Ekcin 2,407]

On 9/18/2021 at 3:10 PM, Davih said:

I don't see much difference in using multiple accounts to break a chance and using multiple accounts simply to produce more stuff.

In a way, yes and no. Alt usage is source of disputes in practically every MMO. One point of critique is that alt usage prevents cooperation between real persons which is certainly the case to some extent. On the other hand it just makes it possible to continue playing especially in low population games.  Main character priests in Wurm certainly dislike the widespread priest alt usage.

 

Using alts to "increase productivity" is a step further in the direction towards abuse and exploit. From certain numbers on it is doubtful that it is even performed without using forbidden third party "helpers". But certainly it is possible to operate ten clients or a few more just using repeat "F" keys fanning with the mouse over minimum sized windows.

 

Is there a difference between parallel brick cutting and rare spamming? I think there is. I took the example of public slaying rolls because there a prize is rolled, and it is obvious that breaking the chance is cheating. In a way, rares also are a prize, given randomly by a chance depending on the frequency of actions.

 

Multiple accounts spamming for rares is certainly breaking the chances. As a matter of fact it is tolerated so far by the devs and GM.

 

Under all circumstances it is intolerable that f2p, or priests, should be punished due to multiaccount's rare spamming. Other games restrict the simultaneous usage of alts e.g. to max. 4 per IP (and per rule per playing RL person no matter which IP), and 2 players directly interacting e.g. in hunting parties.

[Davih 1,340]

1 hour ago, Ekcin said:

 

 

Is there a difference between parallel brick cutting and rare spamming? I think there is. I took the example of public slaying rolls because there a prize is rolled, and it is obvious that breaking the chance is cheating. In a way, rares also are a prize, given

I don't really see a difference in terms of rewards, they are both rewards that increase with the number of accounts, even if one is garaunteed short term and the other one is only garaunteed long term (which gets closer to short increasing the number of accounts)

The real difference is that the rare items market can take the hits way more than the production market can, i made the example of mortar because it's potentially very viable , not sure if a 3rd party helper could help you to make even bricks, but i'm just resizing and for me bricks are one of the few items out of the question. but there are still tons of potentially rewarding multiaccount activities and of markets to destroy if we bring multiaccount out of rares and heavily into other markets, i'll say it again in case you missed it: i once created 4 knarrs in 18 hours.

Edited September 20, 2021 by Davih

[Ekcin 2,407]

Quote

The real difference is that the rare items market can take the hits way more than the production market can, i made the example of mortar because it's potentially very viable ,

 

If I understand you right, you are saying "better let us spam rares, else we spam bulk and 'destroy' the markets". Well. I do not care about bulk, I make my own mortar, even concrete, so what.

 

Quote

.. but there are still tons of potentially rewarding multiaccount activities and of markets to destroy if we bring multiaccount out of rares and heavily into other markets, i'll say it again in case you missed it: i once created 4 knarrs in 18 hours.

So better let you "us" destroy rare markets to keep you away from others? What about not multiaccounting? Punishing free players for your multiaccounting is like an alcoholic requesting prohibition to stop him drinking.

 

As to the knarrs: Produced the 5925 parts within that period as well? Or just assembling? But even if, a creation ql knarr is 3-4s at best on SFI, Jpopper sells a ql93 for 8s.

Edited September 20, 2021 by Ekcin

[Davih 1,340]

32 minutes ago, Ekcin said:

If I understand you right, you are saying "better let us spam rares, else we spam bulk and 'destroy' the markets". Well. I do not care about bulk, I make my own mortar, even concrete, so what.

As sad and ridiculous as it might sound, yeah, it's exactly what i meant,  but please don't take it as a threat, i probably wouldn't even do that, because i don't really want to crash all the noob-friendly markets so pitilessly, but it might become a serious issue.
And the fact that you personally do not care about those markets, doesn't mean that they aren't important to the game.
 

32 minutes ago, Ekcin said:

So better let you "us" destroy rare markets to keep you away from others? What about not multiaccounting? Punishing free players for your multiaccounting is like an alcoholic requesting prohibition to stop him drinking.

As to the knarrs: Produced the 5925 parts within that period as well? Or just assembling? But even if, a creation ql knarr is 3-4s at best on SFI, Jpopper sells a ql93 for 8s.

Rare market is already destroyed from years on SFI, that's why we need bigger and much harder to destroy markets, lol.

Ditch the "punishing free players" part, i mean, that wasn't even a big solution in the first place and tbh it's probably going to be irrelevant in any of the cases.

The knarrs, i made more than half of the parts the afternoon before, but that didn't take more than another like 8 hours, and i used mediocre tools, also my alts are still in the 70's, there's much room for improvement still, lol.( i could also easily manage at least 50% more alts :D) 

Edited September 20, 2021 by Davih

[Etherdrifter 2,518]

On 9/19/2021 at 2:25 PM, Archaed said:

I don't see spam crafting being something that "benefits" priests. 

Try playing one on PvE solo sometime; we don't get imping rares so creation is our only chance to roll.

 

Can't say I spam create for rares, but it's nice to get them when they roll.

[Finnn 3,303]

38 minutes ago, Etherdrifter said:

Try playing one on PvE solo sometime; we don't get imping rares so creation is our only chance to roll.

 

Can't say I spam create for rares, but it's nice to get them when they roll.

I can not say more than a big L O L, too lazy to use 72 font size... just imagine it..

Why... improving and repairing is overrated for rares, sure it is possible.. sure you can abuse the known for current system and do timed actions... sure you can fail to land successful action, sure it's 20% not 50%..

Also sure, I did grind to 99 on 2 skills for example and only 1 in 40 items turned rare, while all had runes for increasing rarity tier and I spend decent time daily grinding.. it's often normal to not get inspiration for 8-12hours straight when smithing, maybe just because of the repairing action "consuming" the rarity window, or the common inspiration on action that fails and damages the item, plenty of wasted opportunities.

Either way, current system is pretty abusable and rewards only few that know how it works and abuse it's flaws, same one could still work.. if it's patched for the few odd outcomes and ways it's currently farmed..

[Davih 1,340]

It's more like "not getting abused by the flaws" than "abusing the flaws", lol